If we are spiritual and physical does or soul need to be Male or Female as well?

From a biological standpoint we have gender for reproduction proposess, why would our sould need a gender?

I'm not saying God is a women or neuter, Jesus did teach us to call God our Father after all.

-- james Xwing (James_xwing@hotmail.com), December 31, 2002

Answers

Your mistake is trying to separate the soul from the body. Christianity teaches that our body and our soul will be reunited at the end of time, so whatever gender your body is, that's the gender your soul is too. :-)

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), December 31, 2002.

So Christine,

Do Angels have gender?

Where is your soul between death and the Ressurection? Suppose this takes thousands and thousands of years? Does your soul remain in a genderless state while it waits?

What abouts the souls of the Saints in heaven? Do they have a gender? Not the person, the soul.

The spiritual plane is difficult for a corporal being to understand, why would one need a gender to exist in it?

-- James Xlc (James_xwing@hotmail.com), December 31, 2002.

James: You wrote:

>So Christine, >Do Angels have gender?

I'm pretty sure they do. Gabriel and Michael are definitely male. In fact, all the angels described in Scripture seem to be masculine. It's only later in history that artists began depicting angels as feminine & fluffy.

>Where is your soul between death and the Ressurection? Suppose this takes thousands and thousands of years? Does your soul remain in a genderless state while it waits?

Your soul will be in one of three places: Heaven, Hell or Purgatory. Your soul is YOU - so it is you, James, who will experience the good or bad things of those places. At the end of time, however long it takes, your soul will be reunited with your glorified body. (That's Catholic teaching - didn't the Legionaries tell you that? ;-) )

>What about the souls of the Saints in heaven? Do they have a gender? Not the person, the soul.

Of course they do! The ultimate example is the Blessed Virgin Mary, our Mother - whose body and soul have *already* reached the state that we hope to reach someday. Do you think Mary is genderless?

>The spiritual plane is difficult for a corporal being to understand, why would one need a gender to exist in it?

I got news for you, James - we're ALREADY living on the "spiritual plane" - all that happens at death is that we see it more clearly. As for why we need a gender to exist in it, you'll have to take that up with the Creator, since it was His idea. ;-)

-- Christine L :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), December 31, 2002.

I agree with most of what Christine said. However, spirits do not have gender. God is neither male nor female, though He has chosen to reveal Himself to us in masculine images (Lord, Father), which is why we refer to God as "He". Maleness and femaleness are designed to be complimentary. If God were male, He would, in a sense, be incomplete without a female counterpart. This concept lies at the root of both the anti-religious rhetoric of militant feminism, and the goddess worship of New Age religion; but both or these represent reactions to that which does not really exist except in their own minds. God is not male, and the Church does not teach that He is.

continued ........

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 31, 2002.

We believe that all genuine human love is a reflection of God's love. Therefore, God's love is not restricted to "male" kinds of love like father love, husband love, or brother love. A mother's love is also a reflection of God's love. Jesus, who was undeniably male in His humanity, gave us a glimpse of God's "mother love" when He said, "How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings" (Matt 23:37) Likewise, the love of a wife for her husband, a daughter for her mother, a sister for her sister, or simply a woman's love for a dear friend are all reflections of, and therefore included in God's love. These kinds of love are qualitatively different from male love, which is why men have such difficulty understanding such relationships, and why women likewise cannot fully appreciate the nature of male love. Gender imposes certain limitations. Yet all of these forms of love reflect in an imperfect way the love of God, who can fully and perfectly comprehend, appreciate, and experience all of them, not because he is both male and female, but because He is far above and beyond all limitations, including those imposed by gender.

continued ..........

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 31, 2002.

Angels likewise are pure spirits, and as such do not have gender. The primary purpose of gender, as James stated above, is reproduction, and angels do not reproduce. There is of course much more to being male or female than just the physical body; so God could have created beings which were spiritually, intellectually, and emotionally male or female, even in the absence of a body; but there is no strong evidence that He did so.When people asked Jesus about male-female relationships in heaven (specifically marriage, the ultimate expression of male-female relationship), Jesus told them that such relationships do not exist in heaven, for we will be "like the angels", that is, immortal (Luke 20:34-36).

Angels, while they are created beings and not infinite like God, were nevertheless created with great powers which far exceed the limitations of humanness, let alone gender-specific humanness. Since angels do not have physical bodies, they must assume some physical form in order to be seen by human beings. On the few specific occasions that are described in scripture, the angel appeared in the form of a young man. We are not sure why that is so; there are several theories. But we do know that those human bodies, if they were indeed actual physical bodies, and not just visions, were not the angels' own bodies (unlike the body of Christ, who was human, and therefore had His own human body).

continued ............

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 31, 2002.

The soul, while spiritual in nature, is not an independent entity. It exists as a fundamental part of a human person, who is either male or female. Just as a male person or female person's body, mind, and emotions indicate their gender, so does their soul, for it is part and parcel of a whole person, who is fully male or fully female in all their essential components. Therefore, while relationships related to reproduction (courting, marriage, sexual relationships) are part of our earthly existence, as Jesus indicated above, our gender is something that exists as long as we exist, and that means forever.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 31, 2002.

To my understanding, but I could be wrong, is that our souls are neither male nor female, but they either have masculine or feminine qualities. I was taught in the seminary that God is not male, but he has masculine qualities. Although I haven't looked into the subject enough.

-- Andrew Boyd (andrewboyd100@hotmail.com), December 31, 2002.

Interesting question, James. I am pleased to see that you are straying from a topic that formerly preoccupied you -- the Legion of Christ. It is extremely more interesting to discuss other matters, such as this one.

I believe that the Church has not taught one way or the other about whether souls have a "sex" (male or female). [I avoid using the word "gender," because it really is a word that pertains only to grammar, in which there is "masculine" or "feminine" gender of nouns.]
Excuse the interruption. As I was saying, I don't think that there is a teaching on this, so we are free to speculate.

My opinion is, like Andrew's, that a soul does not have a sex. Sexuality is something related to the material body, while the soul is not material, but spiritual. The main properties ("operations," says the Catechism) of the soul are "intellect" and "will" -- two things that are not related to sexuality.
However, I am open to changing my mind, if convincing arguments are put forward.

God bless you.
John
PS: Christine, I couldn't agree with your statement that "Your soul is YOU." I would instead say, "Your 'embodied soul' -- or your 'ensouled body' -- is YOU." We are composite beings, in time and into eternity (except for a temporary period in which the two elements of the human nature are separated -- between death and final judgment).

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 31, 2002.

I likewise would not say that "your soul is you". The "embodied" soul idea is a valid one because it expresses the fact that "you" are not really present unless your body and your soul are united. Immediately after death, it is not "you" who is lying there. It is only your body. All the other components that made up "you" are gone - your intellect, your will, your emotions, your masculinity or femininity. The sex of the body is still apparent of course, but the soul which departed took your masculinity or femininity with it. Otherwise, femininity and masculinity are nothing more than anatomy, and we know that is not the case. Therefore your soul, while awaiting reunion with your resurrected body, must still possess those traits.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), January 01, 2003.

This seems to be a good question to spend some time on.

Once someone dies their person suffers violence in that the soul is seperated from the body. A human being per se is this union of body and soul into ONE. When this union is destroyed you no longer have a human person - but a decaying body and a soul. Gender refers to not only the genital characteristics of the body being female or male, but also to your whole intellect, will, intuition, attitude, sentiments, feelings, desires and other qualities which pertain to one's immortal soul. These qualities will remain male or female in their characteristics without the body containing male or female genitalia.

As far as angels having male or female characteristics, I am not sure really. Since they were never embodied, I cant say. Maybe it is a way fro us to understand them better with our male/female eyes and psychology. As far as god revealing to Himself as Father, I think that is because he wants us to undersand Him in a certain way. God has no genital distinguishing sex, except in Jesus Christ who was a man, But God AKA the blessed trinity does not. We refer to Him as "Him" because he has revelled Himself to us in that way.

Joe

-- Joe Biltz (joebiltz@netzero.net), January 01, 2003.

Paul, I appreciate your explanations.

You say : "The soul, while spiritual in nature, is not an independent entity. It exists as a fundamental part of a human person, who is either male or female. Just as a male person or female person's body, mind, and emotions indicate their gender, so does their soul, for it is part and parcel of a whole person, who is fully male or fully female in all their essential components."

We are integrated creations of body, soul,and spirit. St. Paul makes reference to these three elements in 1 Thes. 5:23. Understanding our nature in this light is highly significant to coming into self- knowledge and discerning how it is exactly that God relates to us. Theresa to be cont.

-- Theresa Huether (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), January 01, 2003.

For we are affected by things which operate either in our body, soul, or spirit. If I am disturbed I think "is this a physical thing, or is this happening in my soul {intellect, will or emotions}, or in my spirit {the spiritual realm, which is affected by the demonic as well}. And so when I discern the trouble I can pinpoint what needs to be done, and can pray more effectively. Understanding these components of self helps us pray for each other more effectively.

When one is sick in the soul, take for instance someone who is racked with unforgiveness or resentment, many times it has a direct effect on the body which takes on an illness. cont'd

-- Theresa (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), January 01, 2003.

conversely, when one is healed in the soul, or in spiritual matters {deliverance for example}, consequently the body many times is healed as a result of the emotional or spiritual healing. Sanctification needs to be done on all levels, and we can more fully participate in our healing as we understand the three components of our being.They affect each other, we are so to speak triune beings also, made in God's image and likeness. cont'd

-- Theresa (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), January 01, 2003.

We need not be taken back by the world going awry when we see in the light of these matters, that many people are operating from unredeemed souls,without baptism our spirits are dead.

Which brings to mind the whole cloning thing. What are in the minds of these people? Are they just really evil or just ignorant of these spiritual matters? We know that no one can create a soul? What will these 'created beings' be? The latest 'cloning news' of the cult is like a science fiction movie. Have they no fear of God? If this is so we are entering into some profound times in the near future, wouldn't you agree?

-- Theresa (Rodntee4Jesus@aol.com), January 01, 2003.

"If this is so we are entering into some profound times in the near future, wouldn't you agree?"

IF it is so, Theresa, then yes, it would be very bad. But some scientists think that this whole cultic thing is a hoax and that it may be completely impossible to clone a human being.

Whatever is the case, I believe that the Church has already stated that a cloned human would have a separate immortal soul created by God. We don't doubt that fact about identical twins [same DNA], who come into being from a single fertilized ovum -- just as a cloned person would have the same DNA as the original person.

But human beings are not "commodities." As the Church teaches, each person has the right to be generated from the loving embrace of his/her parents, watched over by God himself.

I have read with interest the several replies that followed mine. I can understand why three or four of you are inclined to say that a soul has a male or female sex -- rather than no sex, as Andrew and I stated. I have to say that I am not fully convinced, though. I hope that someone can find a Church teaching on this, but we may find only the opinions of theologians.

If someone could enumerate all the "components/properties/functions" of a human soul, as taught by the Church, and explain how any of these totally spiritual things could be male or female, then maybe I could change my opinion. I don't think that anyone has done that yet. Note that I mentioned an enumeration "as taught by the Church." We could try to make a list from our own heads, but I think that we might put things on the list that don't belong there, because they are actually componets/properties/functions of the body.

God bless you.
John

-- (jfgecik@hotmail.com), January 01, 2003.

Interestingly, I came across a statement by C.S. Lewis over the holiday, in which he said that all souls are female in their relationship with God. :-)

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 02, 2003.

Actually, sorry, it was Peter Kreeft, not C.S. Lewis. :-)

-- Christine L :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 02, 2003.

Seeing as we hit the clone idea:

I don't doubt that we will be able to clone human life.

However what scares me is the fact that these nuts are so arrogant that they want to recreate themselves, even I'm not that bad, although I'm sure a few Legionaries would like to see their founder cloned. But I digress...

I wouldn't wish another me on humanity and I'm sure Christine and Buttinski would second that.

What about all those unwanted kids out there, have these people ever heard of adoption.

James

-- James Xwing (james_xwing@hotmail.com), January 05, 2003.

The reason Kreeft says this is because the soul does embody certain characteristics in relation to God. We are made in His IMAGE and LIKENESS, not just like him. This means that if we are to describe the relationship of our soul to God, it would have to be in a feminine sense because God is the eternal contributor to us, and we are the receivers of everything he gives, which has the same relationship as husband/wife on earth. The man produces and gives the seed of life in a sexual relationship, while the woman is passive and receives the seed. In order to understnad our relationship with God, we must always be passive, or feminine in this relationship.

-- Jared Cheek (tigerjunior@hotmail.com), April 06, 2003.

Souls have no gender. I agree with John when he has stated, “Sexuality is something related to the material body, while the soul is not material, but spiritual.” In the very first chapter of Genesis we are told that God instituted gender for the creation of of man - “God created man in his image; in the divine image he created him; MALE AND FEMALE HE CREATED THEM.” In God’s order of the universe, there is a hint here that gender wasn’t something that naturally came about through the normal creation of all beings. God felt Adam should not be alone and so, took from him a rib and made Eve, a being who was to be different but compatible to him.

By the way John, the use of the word “gender” is now an acceptable way to describe the “condition of either being female or male”. When old words are used in new ways and come to be accepted by the majority of society, they take on that new “accepted” meaning as being approved and official. This new meaning for “gender” can now be found in most modern dictionaries.

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), April 07, 2003.

No actually, Souls DO have gender... because the human soul is always the "form of the body" - it is created specifically for its body - and in the resurrection will return to its glorified body - and not another.

What doesn't have gender is spirits - angels, God. But since every single human being on earth has either been male or female, and every single human being is an integrated whole composed of body and soul, both of which began at the same instant, it makes no sense to talk about one's own soul as though it has nothing to do with maleness or femaleness. It has everything to do with what we are.

To think otherwise would be to engage in subtle dualism which is disastrous on more than one level.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), April 07, 2003.

Jmj
Hello, Ed L. and Joe S.

I scrolled up to re-read what I wrote around New Year's Day. On December 31, I wrote:
"I believe that the Church has not taught one way or the other about whether souls have a "sex" (male or female). ... I don't think that there is a teaching on this, so we are free to speculate."
Two points:

(1) Ed, notice that I said that "I" use the word "sex" (and "avoid" the word "gender") in these circumstances. I recognize, as you said, that the word "gender" is recognized by most people as a synonym for "sex." Yes, "gender" has been sufficiently abused in that fashion to have taken on a new meaning in most people's mental (and printed) dictionaries. However, I cannot bring myself to misuse the word "gender," and I will do my little part to persuade people to return to the word "sex." The abuse of "gender" started with one person. Now the return of its proper use can start with one person (yours truly)!

(2) Joe, my wish was to refer to what the Church teaches or doesn't teach, rather than to make a firm statement of fact about the "sexuality" of a human soul.

After reading a few subsequent posts, I added on New Year's Day:
"I can understand why three or four of you are inclined to say that a soul has a male or female sex -- rather than no sex ... . I have to say that I am not fully convinced, though. I hope that someone can find a Church teaching on this, but we may find only the opinions of theologians. If someone could enumerate all the components/properties/functions of a human soul, as taught by the Church, and explain how any of these totally spiritual things could be male or female, then maybe I could change my opinion. I don't think that anyone has done that yet.

"Note that I mentioned an enumeration 'as taught by the Church.' We could try to make a list from our own heads, but I think that we might put things on the list that don't belong there, because they are actually components/properties/functions of the body."

Now that I have repeated these January comments, Joe, would you like to take a stab at my request? Your post of yesterday did not mention the requested components/properties/functions of the soul (so that I could see how these spiritual things could be sexual in nature). I can't yet see any danger of "dualism" in the opinion I have been offering.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 08, 2003.

Look, dualists - such as homosexuals, will claim that there is their body on the one hand, which is essentially a vehicle or tool or toy, and then their spiritual soul on the other which is their "person", the core of who they are. This being their idea - that a human being is a "ghost in a machine" - they can naturally presume that the body is something they can play with, or change at whim without doing any harm to their soul.

But wait a second. We know from Catholic theology that at the moment of conception, God creates the Human spiritual soul ex nihilo (from nothing) and infuses it in the fertilized egg. (another reason why sex is sacred: the Holy Spirit "hovers over the waters" in the woman's uterus! Bet ya haven't thought of it that way huh?)

Once the matter is supplied by the parents, the form is supplied by God -for THAT MATTER.

Now then, forms (spiritual soul, the principle of life) is not generic. We don't believe in the pre-existence of souls. We don't believe in reincarnation (which would be dualism - the body really not having anything to do with the soul...).

No. Catholics believe that the human person is an incarnate spirit. Look carefully at the words here. A human person is both physical and spiritual, by DEFINITION. And by reason of our animal physicality, we are engendered - there is only an XX or an XY - only female or male manifestation of the human person.

Therefore, since forms = souls, and each form is created specifically for each body (the matter it "in-forms" or keeps alive, or "animates"), and human beings are always either male or female, it would seem to be a slam-dunk, straight forward deduction that when God creates the soul, that soul is either male or female.

Maleness is linked to the sex, such that even a genital change operation will not change your form as male. Sorry guys/gals. "You is what you is".

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), April 08, 2003.

I think we should look at one of the churches great philosophers has ot say on the subject: St. thomas Aquinas. In huis Summa Theologica, Aquinas says that the body and soul are two different gifts of God fused to make man. Therefore, the soul and body are not interchangeable. So you cant look at man and say that because his body is male so is his soul. He even goes to the extent to say (Q 75 Art 4) that the soul is NOT man. He says in his first objection that "what the governor of a state does, the state is said to do." So God does not give us a soul which is either male of female, but when the soul enters into the body and they become one, the soul follows what the body does, so if the body is male, the soul takes on male qualities, and vice versa. I think this is vital to udnerstand, because when we are resurrected body and soul, we join in marriage with God. Our souls are united in a sort of Holy of Holies matrimony. Therefore, if we are to be united with God, it wouldnt make sense that our soul is male or female, sense God is genderless.

One other purely speculative way to look at this is in the garden of Eden. Adam desired someone like himself because he was alone. When he saw Eve, he KNEW she was like him, flech of his flesh and bone of his bones. However, there had to be something in them that is alike. Since they were obviously different in sex, i think that if their souls were of different gender, then he owuld not have recotgnized her. However, he saw something that was a lot like his own, a genderless soul made in the image in likeness of God, so he desired her and "They became one."

Just some thoughts.

-- Jared Cheek (tigerjunior@hotmail.com), April 09, 2003.

Just a brief explanation. when i said "vice versa" i ddint mean that what the soul does the body does also, i meant if a body were female the situation would be the same.

-- Jared Cheek (tigerjunior@hotmail.com), April 09, 2003.

Aquinas' opinion was based on 12th century medical knowledge which did not know about the substantial change that occurs at the moment of conception. He surmised, following Aristotle, that the spiritual soul is infused by God into the fetus at "quickening" around the 2nd trimester (when you begin to feel it move). He posited that the principle of life was first vegtable, then animal, and finally human.

However logical this progressive ensoulment seems, it is based on the information he had to work with and not on some principle he argued from.

Thus, when we realize (as biology now teaches us) that a substantial change occurs at the moment of conception when the nuclei of the sperm and egg fuse and an electrical spark flashed across the embryo and the "two become one" - that the new human being begins at the start with a human soul.

Souls are no generic. They are always souls of either a male or a female human being. And souls are not shadows or pilots of a machine called the body. They are the "principle of order" that animates this body on even the atomic level. But the soul alone is not the man, and the body alone is not the man. A man is both body and soul.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), April 09, 2003.

God is most definately male. Why do you think the church is called the bride of Christ ? Why is God called our bridegroom ? Jesus Himself is both God and man. And as a man, He is male. Therefore God is fully male. The Holy Trinity confirms it through the Father, the Son and even the Holy Spirit, who entered into Mary's womb.

-- crazy4christ (crazy@hotmail.com), April 10, 2003.

Hi everyone.

It would seem so illogical to have reproduction of beings occurring in Heaven, there would not be any need for sexual identities. Unless, one believes in the teaching of the Quran (I do not).

rod

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 10, 2003.

I don't think it is a matter of "needing" sexual identities in heaven. It has nothing to do with reproduction in heaven, which of course we know does not happen, for a number of reasons. Rather, it is the fact that our sexual identity is an intrinsic part of us, so if we go to heaven, our sexual identity and everything else that is part of us as human beings goes. If our sexuality was abandoned, we would no longer be ourselves. In fact, we would no longer be human.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 10, 2003.

I think it is a very large misunderstanding if you say that God is male. He says that He is male so that we may come to udnerstand our relationship with Him. He is the perpetual, eternal giver of live, and we are ALWAYS the receiver. Before we were conceived, we had POTENTIAL to be alive, but it was not until God acted upon that potential energy that we live. The reason that we are called the Bride of Christ and the Reason that He is our Groom is so that we can udnerstand our relationship with God, which is why matrimony is a sacrament. If God were strictly male, then he would not be infinite, because His infinitness (is that a word) would not be able to encompass femininity. So it is vital that we understand God as someone who goes WAYbeyond male and female beings.

Now i can understand how one would try to understand the soul as male of female. However, when the bible says "He created MAN, MAN He created them", it is not syaing "He created Male, Male He created them." MAN is a word for Humanity. However, He does make the Jump from Man to "Male and female He created them." I think in order for us to understand this we must udnerstand first what original Man was and what man was like after He created Male and Female. The Pope's Theology of the Body is a tremendous source on this, and I think the pope would agree that man was not male or female in the beginning, but man was HUMANITY, which is extremely different. So amybe the gender is BOTH Male and Female!! Hmmm......

-- Jared Cheek (tigerjunior@hotmail.com), April 13, 2003.

Jmj

Joe, I need to re-read the messages you posted after my last message.
They did not convince me on the first reading. I also don't think that you are directly replying to my concerns. Please look again at my post of April 8, especially the last paragraph, wherein I wrote:
"Your post of yesterday did not mention the requested components/properties/functions of the soul (so that I could see how these spiritual things could be sexual in nature)."
I don't believe that you have fulfilled this request of mine.

I know very well that a human person is a composite of soul and body, but until I read an official Church teaching to the contrary [can you cite one?], I will lean strongly toward believing that sexuality has its basis in the material -- i.e., in the body (specifically expressed through the sex chromosomes) -- while the soul (being spiritual) does not possess sexuality. In other words, it appears to me that an asexual soul animates a sexual body.
I don't believe that this presents a danger of dualism of the kind you mentioned (involving homosexuality), because transsexual surgery cannot change the chromosomes.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 15, 2003.

Hello, this might sound weird but...

Simply - no.

It's all about electricity - positive and negative charge.

Positive carries masculine characteristics and negative feminine ones. Depending on which is predominant around an embryo will determine its sex... But anyway a spirit is neutral and can be charged at will by either of the mentioned opposites. The discharge between a positively charged and a negatively charged spirit is "sex" in the afterworld. What we experience while "alive" is the carnal replica of that.

Also we come into the physical realm to learn and experience don't we? Isn't it logical that one should experience the strenghts and weaknesses of both "genders?" But that involves reincarnation in female and male bodies.

At first God created us in his own image... hermaphrodite but It wanted to speed evolution up so It split us in two and now we search for the opposite thinking it'll make us complete... Another need was added to the desires that torment the souls while reincarnated.

Where else could It split us if not the genitals? Every other function in the body is always needed (heart, digestive system, brain etc...) Genitals are only needed when we reproduce. This split also introduced a new kind of "love" we could experience which has a tremendous effect on everyone of us... Life will never be the same for someone who loved.

-- Eyoura (s_y_o_n_i_s@yahoo.com), June 04, 2003.

no offense eyoura, i dont mean to come off harsh, but as a scientist i have to tear into your quote a bit

It's all about electricity - positive and negative charge.

oh boy, this should get interesting.

Positive carries masculine characteristics and negative feminine ones. Depending on which is predominant around an embryo will determine its sex...

um, no. sex is determined by the second, or lack thereof, X chromosome. the sole responsibility for the gender of the child lies in the mans sperm. a sperm which lacks an X chromosome (which we deem to mean it has a Y chromosome instead, although there really is no such thing) will produce a male child. electricity has nothing to do with it, and i recommend keeping batteries out of parenting.

But anyway a spirit is neutral and can be charged at will by either of the mentioned opposites. The discharge between a positively charged and a negatively charged spirit is "sex" in the afterworld. What we experience while "alive" is the carnal replica of that.

also no. a spirit has no real 'existance' in the physical world. the spiritualist perspective (my philosophy, not to be confused with spiritualism) comes the closest to having the spirit exist in the real world, but it still is only represented by a body. the spirit has a gender, although genetics is linked to this gender, and that is what creates the physical properties of gender.

Also we come into the physical realm to learn and experience don't we? Isn't it logical that one should experience the strenghts and weaknesses of both "genders?" But that involves reincarnation in female and male bodies.

no, we come into the physical world as a bit of a test... if you will. we are here to serve God and act as human beings were intended, as moral creatures. experience has NOTHING to do with morality. to tell you the truth, i have the deepest respect for women, but i would NEVER want to be one. im inherently male, soul and body, as is anyone else, and im completely content to serve my lot in life.

At first God created us in his own image... hermaphrodite but It wanted to speed evolution up so It split us in two and now we search for the opposite thinking it'll make us complete... Another need was added to the desires that torment the souls while reincarnated.

where in the world did you get that idea? God was never a hermaphrodite. GENDERLESS would be the word you are looking for. a burning bush, a tornado, a dove, these things are NOT hermaphrodites. God isnt even human and therefore does not possess gender as we understand it. BUT God does play a masculine psychological role in the world, and hence the use of the term ABBA (aramaic for heavenly father).

there is also no evidence that humanity was originally created as hermaphrodites. God doesnt make mistakes, he created humanity the first time and it was good. so youre a believer in evolution too eh? the only time humans were able to self reproduce was when we were still itsy bitsy genderless bacteria.

Where else could It split us if not the genitals? Every other function in the body is always needed (heart, digestive system, brain etc...) Genitals are only needed when we reproduce. This split also introduced a new kind of "love" we could experience which has a tremendous effect on everyone of us... Life will never be the same for someone who loved.

um, the soul could split us. see, the body is a manifestation of the soul in the physical world (called an accident). the soul, its characteristics, determine the composition of the body. namely, a male soul produces a male body. also, genitalia has nothing to do with LOVE. thats the problem with the misconception of love in the world today. people have this romantic fantical idea of love, and it stinks. love is NOTHING like most people even begin to consider it to be (read divorce rate, abortion rates, spousal abuse, etc)

best wishes.

-- paul (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), June 04, 2003.

Jmj
Hello, "little paul."
Well, it looks as though we may be getting into it here (unexpectedly soon for me).

I think that it would help for me to understand your "spiritualist perspective" (or philosophy) if I could read your reaction to the following statement made by me several months ago on this thread (which I think reflects Catholic Church teaching):
Christine, I couldn't agree with your statement that "Your soul is YOU." I would instead say, "Your 'embodied soul' -- or your 'ensouled body' -- is YOU."
We are composite beings, in time and into eternity (except for a temporary period in which the two elements of the human nature are separated -- between death and final judgment).

Next, paul ... on this thread, on New Year's Day, I posted a complex question -- but no one ever answered me. Maybe you will take a stab at answering me, because you seen to have united yourself to the folks I was addressing when you told Eyoura the following (with which I disagree):
"The soul, its characteristics, determine the composition of the body. namely, a male soul produces a male body."

Here was my question of January 1:
"I can understand why three or four of you are inclined to say that a soul has a male or female sex -- rather than no sex ... . I have to say that I am not fully convinced, though. I hope that someone can find a Church teaching on this, but we may find only the opinions of theologians. If someone could enumerate all the components/properties/functions of a human soul, as taught by the Church, and explain how any of these totally spiritual things could be male or female, then maybe I could change my opinion. ... Note that I mentioned an enumeration 'as taught by the Church.' We could try to make a list from our own heads, but I think that we might put things on the list that don't belong there, because they are actually components/properties/functions of the body."

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 07, 2003.

If one concedes that a soul is PART of a human person (not something distinct from a human person, like a guardian angel), and that gender is an innate characteristic of a human person, then it seems counterintuitive to state that a given PART of a gendered PERSON could nevertheless be non-gendered.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 07, 2003.

john

i have to go to paris for a few days, but when i get back on tuesday i'll reply.

best wishes and God bless,

-- paul (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), June 08, 2003.

OK, "little paul." No rush.

Paul, you wrote: "... it seems counterintuitive to state that a given PART of a gendered PERSON could nevertheless be non-gendered."

It would only seem counterintuitive to a person who is visualizing each "PART" of a "PERSON" in material terms -- e.g., an organ or digit of the body. But the soul is not something material, so I think that it need not possess a sex. It is the life-giving force of the person, not the sex-giving force, I believe. The chromosomes are the sexual determinant, I believe, and they are not created/affected by the soul.

As I said, though, I hope for something magisterial on this. Otherwise, we probably can only speculate and disagree.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 09, 2003.

John, I don't visualize each part of a person in material terms at all. I just believe that there is more to "maleness" or "femaleness" than a physical body. A man is a man, and a women is a woman physically, emotionally, intellectually, and spiritually.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 09, 2003.

bump for upcoming post

-- paul (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), June 10, 2003.