this is a question for everyone, but mostly Peter:

what about pirated material? Ok thats broad, so I'll break it down.

1) There's a guy selling a full VCD set on Ebay.

2) I own the box set and am worried that my tapes will wear out (they already have noticible loss of quality) so I pulled them all onto DV with a firewire converter box and am encoding them to divx for archiving as i type. But, if that guy did a better job than I can, can i buy those without a guilty conscience? I think no, because he's profiting, not you.

3) The real box set is incredibly scarce, and I'd like to give it to a number of people as presents. Thus, this is tempting, but I won't do it unless you say its cool.

4) I remember looking for Aeon on Kazaa a while back, and only finding War and a music video. My initial idea was, "everyone should see this! I'll rip it and share it ASAP!" That changed after the ripping was done, and the sharing was about to begin. I got a guilty/greedy feeling all at once, like "hey I was smart enough to buy this a long time ago, so now only I should have access." The guilty part was that, through this board, its easy to tell that you're an excellent dude doing what he likes, and not really pulling in the killer dough that we all think you deserve. Thus, sharing = stealing from Peter = bad.

5) And then I thought, "wait, Peter doesn't get any extra dough no matter who I buy this from, so does it matter?" Thats why i'm writing. In addition to the philosophical ramifications of the web and digital technology, I'm looking for your opinion on the real world situation, and how you would like your fans to act.

conflicted, cheshire

-- cheshire (no@thanks.com), January 14, 2003

Answers

Dude, first off, stop "braggin" that your making a copy of COPYRIGHTED material and saying that "you were" gonna distribute it out. THAT IS HOW YOU LAND YOURSELF IN TROUBLE IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! I know you are trying to give Peter Chung the respect and his work the dignity, but it's very doubful that Aeon Flux is making anymore money, because they stop printing it on DVD and I think VHS as well. So any dealers out there that are selling "Aeon Flux" on video (especially DVD) are making mad loot out of it at Peter's suspense. What those dealers are doing are over pricing any "Aeon Flux" material knowing the fact that they are rare material hard to come by now a days. So rest assure that you will see tons of pirated material of Aeon Flux out there. If they wouldn't make it so hard to acquire, then we wouldn't have this big of a problem.

Anyways, back to your statement, I think it lies somewhere in the legal process whereas, as long as you (yourself) DO NOT make any profit out of it, show it at any venues, or use it to suit your plagarising needs,,,,then you are fine. If you claim it for educational purposes or letting a friend barrow it to view, then it is acceptable. Until then, don't get yourself in hotwater with authorities or even the FBI knocking on your door to confiscate your computer and video equipment, because your itchy mouth couldn't "zip- up". Just tryin to save you the trouble and watch out for you bro!

About that guy on Ebay auctioning off the "Aeon Flux" VCD, no that is not a "boot-legged" format. Although a majority of pirated material have been traced to NYC, Canada, or Hong Kong. However, I myself bought a copy of Aeon Flux on VCD and it is an original manufactured version of it. How do I know, because of the quality of print of the cover, CD, and serial # label. Trust me I had my fair share of the boot legged material and yes, the CD's itself look sketchy. These VCD that I've seen so far of "AF" are not boot legged.

Now you see why I say it is highly doubtful Peter Chung is making anymore profit on Liquid Television work because they haven't been around ever since MTV aired them and then canceled them. Too bad. Besides, Mr. Chung has moved on to bigger and better projects. Alexander and The Animatrix!!!!!...and I say that with enthusiasm!

Long live Peter Chung's animation!!!

-- Toan (trigunex2003@aol.com), January 16, 2003.

I found on kazaa several episodes of Aeon Flux. To be quite honest, that is how I found out I like Aeon Flux: When I first saw the serie, I didnt realy see it, I just saw great animation. I was 12, maybe 10, could I have seen it otherwise? I dont think so.

Thanks to "piracy" I fell in love with a rather forgotten serie.

Do I feel the urge to share this pirated episodes? Yes, so may other people at my age would *understand* the episodes, I've already had a chance to show an episode to my friend(The Purge), and he didnt understand anything, Until i gave him a few hints and a path to think about it.

Can I possibly find it anywhere else *but* on kazaa? Yeah, sure, if I was planning to spend 500% of the original price, sure, but some of us arent swimming in money. If my local video store would of sold the videos/DVD, granted, I'd buy a copy, but they dont. Heck, no one even knows what Im talking about until I show it to them, then they start remembering "I remember this thing, it was on MTV right? Cool animation".

Im basicly trying to justify why I "steal", I know, but I hope this reasons are sufficient.

P.S Kazaa doesnt have several episodes(I've searched for ages), so by sharing a few it could serve as an incentive to buy the rest? Just a thought.

-- zach the new lurker (mr_spidy@hotmail.com), January 16, 2003.

Kazaa has everything (including a full DVD rip called 'Gowenna' for some reason) except Night/Mirror and the Mission Infinite episodes.

There's also a rather nifty fan music video of Flux clips set to Prodigy's "Breathe".

Still can't find Cindy Flux anywhere, though.

-- yakov grinberg (yakov@griphus.net), January 17, 2003.

Acully Yakov, Kazaa has the full mission infinite on it, its just not easy finding a user who's happy to share it. What it doesnt have, however, is the night episode, Utopia or Deuteronopia?, the ether drift theory, and the demirune... Other then those, it has them all.

I'd realy like to get Peter's view on the situation.

-- zach the new lurker (mr_spidy@hotmail.com), January 17, 2003.

oh, i could have sworn those 3 were the Mission Infinite set. In that case, i agree, they have everything except that and Night/Mirror.

-- yakov grinberg (yakov@griphus.net), January 17, 2003.

I have all the episodes, including the Operative Terminus ones, shared on Kazaa.

-- Episodes (derek@digitalfan.com), January 19, 2003.

It is amazing to see so many people talking aobut this series to this day. and most of you seem to have a great deal of intelligence, but nothing is being done by anyone to make this series stay alive......talk to me people, let's do something to make this happen!!!

-- (Jwalker95@attbi.com), January 20, 2003.

what exactly do you mean by "stay alive" ?

-- yakov grinberg (yakov@griphus.net), January 21, 2003.

Maybe he means an online petition that could be signed by all of us and sent to MTV, for the revival of Aeon Flux, and MTV's funding of new episodes?

-- Derek (derek@digitalfan.com), January 22, 2003.

Is this thread dead already?! C'mon people, post something (=

-- Derek (derek@digitalfan.com), January 26, 2003.

I am currently trying to DL all the episodes off of KaZaA myself. There are about 3 or 4 episodes that I cannot find, they are mentioed above. I have all the "The Maxx" episodes downloaded. I love all the cartoon on MTV Oddities. The one I loved the most that I can't find ANYTHING on though is "The Head". I mean I can't even find screen caps on the internet or anything. Not a single damn file on KaZaA. NOTHING. I looked up "The Head" on Amazon.com and found a video that is out of stock but can be purchased from two users. One is Brand new and sealed for like $33 and the other is used priced at like $34!!! Are people insane!?!? I did read that a program called "Teletoon" is now playing re-runs of "The Head" at night but that does me no good becuase it's a Canadian TV program. I HOPE that someone will start bootlegging the episodes off this "Teletoon" program and put them on KaZaA.

-- internalbleeding (internalbleeding@mchsi.com), January 28, 2003.

I've been reading this discussion, and have been thinking about what my opinion is of all this. I'll just say my feelings are mixed.

For me, the greatest priority is to keep the AF episodes accessible to as many viewers as possible. Also, there's no law against sellers charging as much as they want for out-of-print legitimate tapes and dvds.

As cheshire notes, I make nothing regardless of who's selling what to whom. The issue of whether or not my rights are being infringed are moot. I have no rights. MTV owns them. In other words-- you aren't stealing from me by sharing ripped files and distributing Divx discs. You're stealing from MTV.

Bootleg VCDs, pirated digital rips uploaded to Kazaa, and such are illegal, but they're inevitable and they keep the show alive. Frankly speaking, most fellow animators I know are only too happy to get their hands on pirated videos-- especially if that's the only way they're available. The only folks who are upset about this stuff circulating are the networks and studios who legally own them.

The reason why the videos are out of print is that Sony Music no longer has the video distribution rights. It's quite possible that the current distributor for MTV's videos might be putting the series out in a new edition at some point. Maybe the release of Alexander and Animatrix will encourage them to do so.

-- Peter Chung (cretep@earthlink.net), January 29, 2003.

To answer Sam's earlier question: I actually own 1 copy of the Aeon Flux DVD myself. (I also have 3/4" and betacam tapes of all the episodes. They're not digital masters-- but a lot better than VHS) I remember when the DVD came out and I saw it for sale at the store, I called MTV to ask them if they'd be releasing the whole series. The answer I got from the guy in charge of MTV's home video releases-- As far as he knew, AF hadn't been released on DVD. That's right, he didn't know it had. But he was going to find out for me. He called me back days later and said yeah-- it's out on DVD. Would I like any? I'd already bought it, but I told him yeah, sure. So he sent me ONE complimentary DVD.

Let your "conscience" (if such a thing exists) decide about feeling guilty.

-- Peter Chung (cretep@earthlink.net), January 29, 2003.

I'd say you should share it. I loved the show when it came on but I know I'll probally never come on again just like most old good shows out there. Hey If I had the means to bring back a good show for the fans I would do it too. Ofcourse I would feel guilty, who wouldn't? It's stealing and any moral person with some ethical values would feel the same way. But we all do immoral things everyday. Some times we regret it and sometimes we don't. That's life I guess.

But back to the subject. I don't think its right that guys making profit. But if he's making you happy by offering you this VCD set I don't think its 100% wrong to buy it. I believe your happiness is a profit too. So is the happiness you'll get from the fans when they know a nice guy like you is sharing his box set.

thanks for thinking about us the fans of Aeon Flux

-- Victor M. (victorm_si@yahoo.com), January 29, 2003.

Peter

This is a somewhat odd request, but are you willing to upload the missing episodes somewhere? I'd realy like to watch them, and while I assume you've got a problem with this sort of action(piracy), hear me out: I live in Israel, not only is it impossible(hell, you can even say illogical) to find a store that sells the Aeon Flux VHDs/DVD, importing them is insane. Internalbleeding ranted on how 35$ for a VHD is crazy, I *WISH* I had that price. Shipping to my country usualy cost(just the shipping) between 60(!)-80(!!) dollars, now add the acual product's price... The only company that isnt ripping me off is Amazon.com, but they're only willing to ship me books, and even then the shipping cost me three times the price of the book.

To top it all, MTV doesnt even have a real "animation" section anymore. The cartoons are stacked along with the rest of the shows, and there's not a single mentioning of "MTV oddities" or "Liquid TV" on their site... Maybe they own the rights, but they're obviously not giving a damn about it.

Heck, I might of had some remorse if they gave just a single, tiny mentioning to the show, but they dont, I dont think they give a shit, and frankly? It kind of hurts. It hurts to see something like http://www.mtv.com/onair/clone_high/ getting more attention then intelligent cartoons like Aeon Flux, or The Maxx, or The Head... Do I feel bad for stealing a product which the owners are neglecting and trying to ignore? Not at all. This is my way of keeping the memories alive, what a shame will it be if the next generation wont know what Im talking about when I mention Aeon Flux...

I realy hope you'll take this into consideration, as I realy enjoyed watching all the Aeon Flux episodes which I have already downloaded, and I'd love to see the rest...

-- zach the new lurker (mr_spidy@hotmail.com), January 29, 2003.

Not related to my request, I'd also kill for a glance at one of the old "The Head" episodes, but Kazaa doesnt have anything(believe me, I searched more then any of you), and finding a site dedicated to the show is impossible as well... We can only hope someone would be kind enough to upload an episode or two somewhere... Then we could start spreading it on Kazaa...

-- zach the new lurker (mr_spidy@hotmail.com), January 29, 2003.

Yeah, not to steal Zach's thunder at all, but he's right! If you (peter) have the DVD, is it possible that you could rip the episodes yourself? I could walk you through ripping DVDs if you don't already know, and it would be a contribution towards future generations enjoying it!

skye

-- skye (skyknyt@aol.com), January 29, 2003.

Does everyone just need the operative terminus episodes, or which ones specifically?

-- Derek (derek@digitalfan.com), January 29, 2003.

I'm uploading the Night short to my server right now, let ya'll know when it's up... Just keep it on the low down, if too many people find out, I'll hafta delete it off there (bandwidth is expensive)

-- Derek (derek@digitalfan.com), January 29, 2003.

Night short is up here: http://www.digitalfan.com/aeon/

Peter thanks for your response to this topic. Please let me know if you want me to take anything down, this is your work, I will pull it down the minute you say so...

-- Derek (derek@digitalfan.com), January 30, 2003.

I just want to see the utopia episode, as I recall watching a part of it when I was 12... After that, I'd like to see the rest of the missing ones, but I'd realy like to see it.

-- zach the new lurker (mr_spidy@hotmail.com), January 30, 2003.

By the way, the DVD is on Kazaa, but it does not have all the episodes.

Which is why Im hunting for the "lost ones".

-- zach the new lurker (mr_spidy@hotmail.com), January 30, 2003.

Yeah i got Utopia or Deuteronopia on there too, and The Demiurge... Uploading Ether Drift Theory now. If you guys are gonna download from this, better do it fast cause I'm not keeping them up for very long.

-- Derek (derek@digitalfan.com), January 30, 2003.

A question for Peter, do you make any kind of royalty off the series? It would be cool if you could make a DVD with all the episodes in good quality, and then we would pay you for them. That way you could profit off your creation. It'd probably have to be kinda underground though, so no one would get in trouble.

-- Derek (derek@digitalfan.com), January 30, 2003.

derek - could you PLEASE (begging here ;) ) keep the episodes up until monday? i'm not going to be on broadband until then, and i really can't do much power-downloading on a 28.8.

Thanks a huge amount!

-- yakov grinberg (yakov@griphus.net), January 31, 2003.

Hmm, got quite a few downloads, but I still don't see the files on Kazaa... C'mon people, share 'em!

Anyway I changed the directory name cause I want to slow down the downloads... I'm paying $331 a month for my dedicated server right now, don't want the bill to get any bigger! If anyone still really wants them, e-mail me and I'll send you the new URL.

-- Derek (derek@digitalfan.com), January 31, 2003.

I've got them up on WinMX already.

skye

-- skye (skyknyt@aol.com), February 01, 2003.

I have all the eps on vcd. I will trade. E-mail for info.

-- Rick (one800chiapet@hotmail.com), March 01, 2003.

This guy is printing money! How come more people don't just buy them, copy them and do the same thing? Can anyone comment on the quality?

-- scottai (scottai10@netscape.net), March 02, 2003.

I really do wish that some company would re-release this... but that would mean getting the rights from MTV... oh if only Cartoon Network could hear our pleas... oh wait... they can... just start sending in letters to the Cartoon Network main office in atlanta and maybe they will add it to Adult Swim action... I mean hell... we have Reign (which just isn't as good as Aeon Flux)

-- Hesh (IwouldGiveitOut@butIdontTrustpeople.com), April 05, 2003.

greetings, im here to post some thoughts - post animatrix - about af. my personal history with this series is is a recent and short one. mtv was not available in my area when af was airing, nor was i into any kind of animation (anime or otherwise). i didnt find out about af until after animatrix came out. after watching matriculated i was motivated to check out more about mr. chung. i now have almost all of aeon flux (from soulseek) and the drew neumann eye spy unnoficial af soundtrack. though ive only watched the pilot episode, its style is like nothing ive seen and instantly enthralled me. right now on ebay there is a copy of the original dvd for sale. yesterday it was posted for 5 dollars it is now up to 35 with 5 days left. point is, it seems that if the the animatrix opened my eyes, im sure it did the same for many other viewers, and af is even more in demand than before. i hope to see a re-release of the series on dvd so i can buy it...and even better would be a new af series by peter. i may be wasting my time submitting to this seemingly dead thread, but if anyone reads it, its worth it. l8z ;]

-- brandon gray (vae__victus@hotmail.com), June 22, 2003.

Hope instilling!

-- Sam (janecherrington@paradise.net.nz), June 23, 2003.

I also remember watching Aeon Flux when it was airing...i had to be 8, 9, 10? But i remember loving it to death. Just recently after i ripped the Animatrix...the first show that came to mind was Aeon Flux for some reason. As far as, how good i thought the story was...i couldnt tell ya...my mind was too young for such a complex plot at the time...but i remembered awesome anime. So...at this second im dloading "Gowenna"...maybe now i can figure out the story a bit. Anyone into "The Maxx"? I remember watching the hell out of that too..

-- Torrance (istaypimpn03@aol.com), July 09, 2003.

I'm looking for a full episode list for AEon Flux. The list I currently have is: The Pilot Gravity Leisure Tide War Thanatophobia A Last Time for Everything The Purge Isthumus Crypticus Reraizure Chronophasia End Sinister Utopia or Deutoronopia Gowenna What am I missing? Also, there is news floating around that a live action movie of AF is going to start shooting November in Brazil. We can only hope. Thanks for any info.

-- Paul Burns (Youdummy@aol.com), July 20, 2003.

episode list: season 1 ep. 1 - pilot season 2 ep. 1 - Gravity ep. 2 - Night ep. 3 - Leisure ep. 4 - Tide ep. 5 - War season 3 ep. 1 - Utopia or Deutoronopia ep. 2 - Isthmus Crypticus ep. 3 - Thanatophobia ep. 4 - A Last Time For Everything ep. 5 - The Demiurge ep. 6 - Reraizure ep. 7 - Chronophasia ep. 8 - Ether Drift Theory ep. 9 - The Purge ep. 10 - End Sinister

-- brandon gray (vae__victus@hotmail.com), July 23, 2003.

[quote]Kazaa has everything (including a full DVD rip called 'Gowenna' for some reason) except Night/Mirror and the Mission Infinite episodes. There's also a rather nifty fan music video of Flux clips set to Prodigy's "Breathe".

Still can't find Cindy Flux anywhere, though[/quote]

Gowenna is a Release group who release the movie not the series, and that is not a fan made video, if you buy the VCD from china it also includes the video. it's official

-- jordan (bi0hackered@hotmail.com), December 18, 2003.

hrmmgrbl...

-- Humbert Humbert (assmaster2000@yahoo.com), July 09, 2004.