I Need Love

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I am a religious education teacher in a state school in Malta (a very small Catholic country near Italy). I am VERY HAPPY at my work. For the past one year and a half, I have been legally separated from my husband.We have no children. A year ago we have made a petition to the ecclesiastical tribunal of our country to study the possibility of nullity of our marriage. In Malta there is a long waiting list of TWO AND A HALF YEARS before the procedure starts and IN ALL THE ANNULMENT PROCEDURE TAKES ABOUT FIVE TO SIX YEARS. If in the meantime I have a love realtionship, I WILL BE FIRED FROM MY JOB AS A RELIGIOUS EDUCATION TEACHER because I would be considered an adulteress and not fit to teach this subject.The Holy Sea has an agreement with my country that it has a right to fire religious education teachers (even in state schools) who do not adhere to the teachings of the Church. I am trying to find another job but it's very hard since my qualifications are in theology and the conditions of my present job are so good. I am 36 years old, and wish to have the love of a man and have children. Every time a man asks me out I would have to refuse because of this situation. This is causing me pain, confusion and a lack of purpose in life as I feel so lonely and empty living alone. I can't even get emotionally close to a man so that I won't fall in love. This is very frustrating. Please pray for me. Thanks a lot. Well done for this site. A spanish religious education teacher was fired from her job when she married a divorced man ,for this story see http://www.cwnews.com/Browse/2001/05/15584.htm

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), January 15, 2003

Answers

This is causing me pain, confusion and a lack of purpose in life as I feel so lonely and empty living alone.

Those are common complications that accompany resisting the will of God.

-- jake (jake1@pngusa.net), January 15, 2003.


Jake, what is the will of God? Isn't it to LOVE. This is what I want to do. I have tried to do this with my husband , but we failed as a marital couple,because we are human beings. We have learnt a lot but our marriage can't work, even though we have tried. My vocation and God's calling is still to love a man in an exclusive way. I have faith that He or She will provide me with this love. I need your support.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), January 15, 2003.

> "In Malta there is a long waiting list of TWO AND A HALF YEARS before the procedure starts and IN ALL THE ANNULMENT PROCEDURE TAKES ABOUT FIVE TO SIX YEARS."

I find that this long wait is a huge injustice against people who's marriages are invalid, but in the end of this process Joanne, your marriage may still be valid. I somehow get the impression, you feel that your marriage would succeed in getting a decree of nullity?

> "I am trying to find another job but it's very hard since my qualifications are in theology and the conditions of my present job are so good."

It sounds to me, that you want to get another job, so you can date other men, but you cannot do that, since you are married. It's not the security of a job that should dictate your life, but your faith.

You do seem to have faith, or all this would not be an issue for you.

I know loneliness can be so horrible, as I am 36 also myself, and alone.

I do believe that religious schools should fire those who are not living according to the teachings of the Church, as we do have to live by example, even if doing so, involves so much suffering like what you are going through. I know that sounds so cruel, but God does know what is best for us, even if it is involves so much suffering.

God bless, and I will pray for you!

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), January 15, 2003.


Thanks Gordon for your support and prayers. How does the Church define Christian marriage? As a bond of love. If there is no love , there is no marriage, there is no God and there is no sacrament. This is what i wish the Church to realise in its tribunal procedures. Gordon,I wish you a lot of love in your life.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), January 15, 2003.

Joanna, all that's true, but it's still up to the Church to make that decision.

I am single and 44 years old, and based on my past relationships, it's probable that I'll remain single for the rest of my life. That can be difficult sometimes, but if you accept it as God's will, and offer up your suffering, you will find it does get easier with time.

You also might want to try looking at the "plus" side of being single. There are very definitely lots of advantages as well as disadvantages - the freedom to come and go as you please, to do whatever you want with your free time, etc. And remember that marriage is no guarantee of happiness - if it is, why do so many people get divorced?

Wait for the Church's decision, and meanwhile, enjoy your freedom - it won't last forever!

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 15, 2003.



Dear Joanne,

You do have a purpose in life. You are teaching children about the catholic faith. That is very important. You are helping them on their road to adulthood. I'm sorry that you are so sad. There are no guarantees in life, even if you remarry the same thing might happen. It is hard to live a good catholic life, but it is what God wants--you will be glad you did when judgement time comes. I hope you qualify for the annulment and that it goes by faster than expected.

Sharon

-- Sharon (delipasta@hotmail.com), January 15, 2003.


> "How does the Church define Christian marriage? As a bond of love. If there is no love , there is no marriage, there is no God and there is no sacrament."

It largely depends on your intentions when you got married. On the day of your marriage, if you both intended to remain faithful to each other till death do you apart, and you both were open to having children, then you are married in the eyes of God. If one of you did not love the other on the day of your marriage, then it is possible you marriage is invalid, but then I would question why the marriage took place, if no love existed then.

If the marriage fell apart, even though you both were sincere in the exchange of vows on your marriage day, then you most likely are married, unless there is another reason here like mental defect, gross immaturity, homosexuality, etc.

A lot of people get married, and after sometime, fall out of love with each other, but that is no grounds for an annulment.

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), January 15, 2003.


Hi! Thanks for all your answers. I'm feeling much better now that I am facing this issue more in my life.

Christine love is so fundamental that it outweighs everything else. Without love we can never feel a genuine sense of fulfillment. No matter how much we accomplish or acquire in life, it cannot supersede our basic need for intimate , exclusive love. I live with this vision each day and I will never give up hope. You are still and only 44. Don't give up. How can you live another 20 or 30 or 40 years without having tried to be loved in an exclusive way? Don't allow it please, because you are too special and worthy of love to stay alone. Many people have had failed realtionships. Who hasn't? Each day I am learning how to love well starting from learning how to love myself better. This entails accepting the possibility to beloved.

Sharon of course there are different kinds of love and life has purpose. My students, my family, my friends give me a lot of satisfaction and I enjoy being with them tremendously. My faith in a loving Father /Mother too gives me light and meaning in life. I enjoy my freedom too. But deep down I know that there is something vital missing and I don't want to escape from this fact. I want to face this emptiness.

Gordon, falling out of love is not necessarily a good reason for an annulment, but the canons of the Church need to reflect the everyday painful experiences of people who have done ALL they could to love each other and save their marriage but have still fallen out of love. The canons should not reduce marriage to a legal contract but shoould reflect the humanity of the Church and of our loving God.

I sincerely wish you all a lot of happiness and thank you once again.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), January 15, 2003.


Joanne, be rest assured that we have everything in Christ. Jesus is our bountiful supply. Our natural human love is so limited, but Christ's love in us is unlimited. Pray to the Lord Jesus that He will be the love lived out of both of you. Whatever we need, He supplies it to us as Himself ; love, light, patience, holiness, righteousness. All these things that we fall short of, Christ is to us. While we are weak, He is strong, and He bears our burdens that His glory may be manifest through our weakness.

Please realise that you don't need to try so hard anymore. The more we try to draw upon our own natural strength, the more we will be defeated. It is when we realise that we cannot do anything apart from Christ, that He works it out through us. Praise the Lord Joanne, you are a child of God. Therefore, you inherited the life and nature of God. I will pray that Christ may make His home in your heart through faith.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), January 15, 2003.


Joanne writes:

'The canons should not reduce marriage to a legal contract but shoould reflect the humanity of the Church and of our loving God.'

No, the 'canons' should not reflect 'humanity.' The Church's responsibility is to reflect the Law of God. Sometimes, God's Law isn't too popular. The Church must reach out to humanity; but, it may not contradict God's Divine Law when it does so.

Mark 10:2-12 "The Pharisees approached and asked, 'Is it lawful for a husband to divorce his wife?' They were testing him. He said to them in reply, 'What did Moses command you?' They replied, 'Moses permitted him to write a bill of divorce and dismiss her.' But Jesus told them, 'Because of the hardness of your hearts he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of creation, 'God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother (and be joined to his wife), and the two shall become one flesh.' So they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, no human being must separate.' In the house the disciples again questioned him about this. He said to them, 'Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

Joanne, you wrote:

"Jake, what is the will of God? Isn't it to LOVE."

From 1 John 4:16: "We have come to know and to believe in the love God has for us. God is love, and whoever remains in love remains in God and God in him."

God is love. If we use that, your thread's title "I need Love" becomes "I need God."

Of course, I must share the rest of the story:

1) God is Love.

2) Love is Blind.

3) Stevie Wonder is Blind.

4) Stevie Wonder is God! :-)

In Christ,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), January 15, 2003.



Oliver thanks so much for your insights. I agree with every single word you wrote. I try to live these words and I must say that I do manage and I do feel God's presence in my life. This is faith. But faith in God translates itself in concrete, human , everyday actions. God said : It's not good for man to be alone. And it's not good for me to be alone. It is God who has put in us the desire to become one (physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually) with another person.

Mateo, thanks for your reply. For God humanity was SO important that he became flesh. He sent His own son to us. The canons should reflect God's law and God's law is to love. Jesus did not tell the people to live in a loveless marriage. St. Paul tells the Christian married couples: "God has called you to live in peace". (1Cor. 7:15) It is peace which the Church's tribunal should seek to establish in the hearts of the beloved people of God. And it is peace , which I wish to you all.... in abundance. :)

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), January 15, 2003.


Don't misunderstand me, Joanne. I haven't given up on love itself. Far from it! I've just come to realize that the source of all love is God, and decided to put Him first in my life. If He wants to introduce me to a cute guy someday, fine and dandy; if He wants to keep me all to Himself, that's fine too! :-)

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 15, 2003.

I'm just rather curious as to this part:

"My vocation and God's calling is still to love a man in an exclusive way. I have faith that He or She will provide me with this love."

She?? Um, when did God become a She? Just wondering....

-- Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), January 15, 2003.


Joanne, just remember that you are not alone. Christ lives in you and He is your true husband. As a member of the body of Christ, you are organically joined to Christ and all the brothers and sisters. Rejoice and be glad. The environment you are in now, and all your circumstances are under God's sovereignty that you would be drawn to Him. And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God. 8-)

God bless.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), January 16, 2003.


Joanne,

Kwen advised you to "get out of here" because of the advice being given to you in this forum. I'm sure you are struggling with this. When we are faced with a "touch situation" we need to seek the truth on the matter. You're doing this. But then faced with the truth, we need to one of two things when the truth doesn't conform with our lifestyle (or thoughts/desires) - we need to change our lives/thoughts to conform to the truth or change the truth to conform to our lives/thoughts.

Kwen is offering you the easy way out. Yes, you can find millions out there to tell you whatever you want to hear and can justify anything (e.g. the horrid mass murdering of the most innocent becomes a fundamental right for women - what?!). But in the long run, this is a dead end run and leads to misery. Only Jesus and His Truth can truly "set you free," and, yes, even (especially) when this Truth requires tough decisions on our part.

When considering Kwen's advice, weigh it against the words of Jesus:

"Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few." (Mt 7:13-14)

Kwen and millions of others will show you the "wide and easy way." I come here to find out more about the way "that leads to life." And what the Church teaches to objective and can be found, not subjective, what some people "feel" about matters. And I can detest that the advice given in this forum by the "regulars" is very sound and accord with the teachings of the Church.

God bless, Joanne, and hold strong in the Truth!

-- Hollis (catholic@martinsen.com), January 16, 2003.



One last note about "love". Yes, God is love and love is essential for the Christian, but don't reduce this call to love as warm fuzzies and nice emotions. The ultimate act of love is found in Jesus dying upon the cross. This is LOVE at its core - not what you feel when a nice looking guy asks you for a date.

Read "God is love" in context (cf. 1 John 2):

3 And by this we may be sure that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He who says "I know him" but disobeys his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him; 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly love for God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: 6 he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

God bless!

-- Hollis (catholic@martinsen.com), January 16, 2003.


Joanne,

I'm using a bit of hyperbole (which can be lost in reading postings) and I know you already know much of what I'm saying. I'm just bringing them up to the fore for you to consider. I see you are honestly struggling with this tempation. Hold firm! I'll be praying for you.

God bless!

-- Hollis (catholic@martinsen.com), January 16, 2003.


Thanks to all for your encouraging words, including Kwen . (Kwen I know what you meant. :)). I know that you all mean well. I agree with all your messages about the importance of God's infinite love and I know that you agree with how important human love is too. I can wait not having an intimate relationship with a man. This is what I'm doing now as I don't see myself in a relationship before the annulment is declared (if it will be declared??) My problem is that waiting 6 years is far too long, considering I am 36 already. But today I feel much better after having shared this problem with you yesterday.

I refer to God as 'She' also because there are numerous biblical images that describe God as mother and since God is sexless, I am free to use both.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), January 16, 2003.


Thanks to all for your encouraging words, including Kwen . (Kwen I know what you meant. :)). I know that you all mean well. I agree with all your messages about the importance of God's infinite love and I know that you agree with how important human love is too. I can wait not having an intimate relationship with a man. This is what I'm doing now as I don't see myself in a relationship before the annulment is declared (if it will be declared??) My problem is that waiting 6 years is far too long, considering I am 36 already. But today I feel much better after having shared this problem with you yesterday.

I refer to God as 'She' also because there are numerous biblical images that describe God as mother and since God is sexless, I am free to use both He and She.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), January 16, 2003.


Thanks to all for your encouraging words, including Kwen . (Kwen I know what you meant. :)). I know that you all mean well. I agree with all your messages about the importance of God's infinite love and I know that you agree with how important human love is too. I can wait not having an intimate relationship with a man. This is what I'm doing now as I don't see myself in a relationship before the annulment is declared (if it will be declared??) My problem is that waiting 6 years is far too long, considering I am 36 already. But today I feel much better after having shared this problem with you yesterday.

I refer to God as 'She' also because there are numerous biblical images that describe God as mother and since God is sexless, I am free to use both He and She.

I wish you well.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), January 16, 2003.


Thanks to all for your encouraging words, including Kwen . (Kwen I know what you meant. :)). I know that you all mean well. I agree with all your messages about the importance of God's infinite love and I know that you agree with how important human love is too. I can wait not having an intimate relationship with a man. This is what I'm doing now as I don't see myself in a relationship before the annulment is declared (if it will be declared??) My problem is that waiting 6 years is far too long, considering I am 36 already. But today I feel much better after having shared this problem with you yesterday.

I refer to God as 'She' also because there are numerous biblical images and metaphors and that describe God as mother and since God is sexless, I am free to use both He and She.

I wish you well.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), January 16, 2003.


Dear Joanne,

You say, "I refer to God as 'She' also because there are numerous biblical images and metaphors and that describe God as She."

What biblical images describe God as she? I have never heard of this. Can you be more specific and direct us to the images you speak of?

Thank you.

ML

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), January 16, 2003.


In my experience inthe classroom, I find that in most cases people leave their partners because they found someone else or because of abuse, rarely because they don't love the person. Paul the Apostle gave this command from Jesus in I Corinthians 7:10-11 that people shoudn't divorce. But for him, Paul, this could also apply: leaving because you live with an unbeliever partner. I cor. 7:12-15. Jesus mentions unchastity in mathew 5:31-32. For Jesus the most important thing was that people shouldn't divorce. His parents didn't divorce.

So if you or your husband has committed infidelity, and both of you agree, your marriage is dissolved under God's laws. Unfortunately, you still have to deal with the laws of the Catholic Church. Since Malta is the last of the catholic countries, that is going to be hard.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonzalez@srla.org), January 16, 2003.


"love is so fundamental that it outweighs everything else."

'Love' is also so equivocal that it can mean almost anything else. :)

I'm a young bloomin' 21, and a seminarian to boot. Diocesan, too - none of this living in community or stuff like that (at least, that's the formation program I'm in; I continue to pray to God for help in discernment).

In any case, I know my aunt lives alone, but she lives happily. My mind has always been that, well, if it has been done, then it can be done by me. I'm not terribly worried about it - I know I'll have terrible moments of lonliness, as I think most priests do. But somehow I just get a sense that things will work out in the end.

Re: God as 'she', well, let me just say that there are worse things you could do; nevertheless, it does not square well our ancient images of God uniting with his people as a husband to a wife. Perhaps you notice that Church documents call the Church 'she'? That's no coincidence. We, collectively, are the Bride, and Christ is the Bridegroom.

One of my colleagues has one of those Ratzinger books that's all about God - there is a very good essay about that in there.

-- Skoobouy (skoobouy@hotmail.com), January 17, 2003.


God bless you, and your aunt too, Sk!

I too was inspired by a maiden (great)-aunt while growing up - always had it in the back of my mind that, even if I never got married, it wouldn't be so bad, because look at Great-Aunt Mae, she's doing pretty well on her own.

Now I'm an aunt myself, and hoping to set the same example for my niece. We never know how our lives are going to affect people we may never even meet! :-)

-- Christine L. :-) (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 17, 2003.


Dear Joanne, My wife left me for another man in 1990. She filed for an annulment in 1991. In 2003 the third instance decision, at the level of the Rota, was pronounced in favor of the Sacrament, to my great happiness. I remain completely faithful to my vows but I share your feelings as well. Remember, love in its purest form is an act of the will. I wish my remarried wife would realize what she is doing and reconsider it all, but she is encouraged in her adultery by the very Churchmen who ignore the Roman decision. It breaks my heart and has driven me from the Church I love. Hang in there. It is the best I can tell you

-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), February 13, 2003.

Dear Karl,thanks for your understanding. I'm very sorry about what happened to you. Today is St.Valentine's day. I have an idea. Let's say a prayer to this special saint. Let's pray that God's will for us will be done. God's will for us is to love and be loved. I have faith that this will be done. I wish you peace and serenity.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), February 14, 2003.

We must not confuse the concept of God's Love with mere human romance. God's love is pure; He loves the soul. He wants what is best for our souls, and He was willing to die a terrible, torturous Death--Death on a Cross!--out of Love for us. It had nothing to do with romantic, or sensual love. Our Lady of Fatima said that more souls go to hell for sins of the flesh than any other reason. If the Church teaches that it is sinful to enter into a relationship before your marriage is declared null, then you really need to pray hard to understand and accept that. I cannot say that I agree with your definition of "Love." If you think that marriage and children will bring you total contentment, you could be mistaken about that. What contentment is there, apart from Christ? If romance disappears in a marriage, it is still a marriage in the eyes of God and the Church. What determines nullity is the intent of both parties at the time the vows were exchanged and the Sacrament of Matrimony was received, not what happened afterward.

I am a bit amazed that you teach religion yet disagree with the Church's stand on this, and refer to God as "He or She." I hope I don't sound like I'm coming down too hard on you...My "composed" words often lack the sympathetic emotions I feel when I write them... We have a great priest here in America named Fr. John Corapi. He discusses "Love." It is from listening to Fr. Corapi's tapes that I arrived at the definition of Love I provided for you. I think that what you really want in your life is "romance." At this time, it appears that would be sinful. I am 44 and just had a baby 2 weeks ago. All things are possible with God! Wait, and do His will, for the good of your soul. I don't say these things to be "right," or accuse you of being "wrong," but say them because I love your soul, and hope that you will be strong...The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak. May the Peace of Christ fill your empty loneliness.

-- Anna <>< (Flower@youknow.com), February 14, 2003.


Anna, if you live alone just like I do,if you're sick as I was two weeks ago, vomiting in the middle of the night, with fever and with a throat infection , you'd know that it's more than romance that I wish. I don't want to indulge in self pity. The reason for writing in the forum was to share my pain about why the annulment process in my country takes so long, and why it involves such a gruelling , beurocratic process.

I am so happy to hear that you have participated in a miracle by giving birth to a child. Stories such as yours confirm the power of God and strengthen my faith. Thank you for answering.I wish you happiness.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), February 15, 2003.


well first and the foremost i will not forgot to thanked god who made it possible for us to come together to share this important idea.As for me i love this very woman despite i don't know her much like that,she very patient woman indeed,could just imgine some waiting for the past few years to got her marrige annlument for her peace of heart,they keep suffering her.don't know that there's no punishment on earth for a woman to live without husband,or children.my suggestion for her to contact me for private discussion through my address over leaf.imagine she's 36,or so now.when do you think is right for her to get marry?plz come to africa and live with me,i will cherish you forever till death do us part.forget your religion and any other soul who colide to terminate you.thankx

-- emmanuel attah (eattahdavid@yahoo.ca), March 04, 2005.

"THE ANNULMENT PROCEDURE TAKES ABOUT FIVE TO SIX YEARS. If in the meantime I have a love realtionship, I WILL BE FIRED FROM MY JOB AS A RELIGIOUS EDUCATION TEACHER because I would be considered an adulteress and not fit to teach this subject"

[this is outrageous,they can't fired someone because of their personal things in life...she has her qualifications and if she is doing her job good,there is no reason to fire her,you can't fire someone for being a sinner...we all are...]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 04, 2005.


actually sdqa they can. She is in Italy not the US.

Our prayers are with you.

-- Davis (Hello@There.com), March 04, 2005.


you can't fire someone for being a sinner...we all are...

tell that to people who get caught stealing things from their work, or to bosses fired for sleeping with their employees. get real, sdqa, people get fired for their iniquities all the time. the question is, is the protection of ONE person worth the jeopardizing of the entire structure? if the answer is no, then the person is to be released because their presence is harmful to the good discipline and order of the organization.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 04, 2005.


paul h,people are being fired if they disobey the rules of their work,not if they are sinning,what they do with their personal lives is their thing,.....

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 04, 2005.

Someone who is hired specifically to teach moral/ethical content, which would include a religious education teacher, can certainly be fired if he/she is living a life style which contradicts that which he/she has a responsibility to convey to the students. Actions speak louder than words.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 04, 2005.

well you know what paul m,call your vatican then and tell them that they do something about this annulment procedure...

"In Malta there is a long waiting list of TWO AND A HALF YEARS before the procedure starts and IN ALL THE ANNULMENT PROCEDURE TAKES ABOUT FIVE TO SIX YEARS"

so she isn't allowed for six years to be in loev with someone,poor women,that's horrible!

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 04, 2005.


Why don't you beat it, sdsq--???

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 04, 2005.

"so she isn't allowed for six years to be in loev with someone,poor women,that's horrible!"

A: Yes it is - which demonstrates the seriousness of marriage and the foolishness of entering into it without serious consideration of what you are about to do - join yourself to another person until the end of your life, for better or for worse.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 04, 2005.


"A: Yes it is - which demonstrates the seriousness of marriage and the foolishness of entering into it without serious consideration of what you are about to do - join yourself to another person until the end of your life, for better or for worse. "

[but what if it's not her fault?...]-sdqa

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 04, 2005.


but what if it's not her fault?

as in she was FORCED into marraige? in a modernized country? don't buy that for a second. even if she were forced into marraige, thats what the annulment process is for... to determine if a condition existed which could prevent a valid marraige from taking place.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 04, 2005.


no,but if her husband did certain things for which she has the right to ask an annulment?

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 04, 2005.

an annulment is not a case where a person simply doesnt like their spouse anymore sdqa, there has to be a condition which existed AT THE TIME OF THE MARRAIGE which clearly illustrates that no valid marraige could take place. even if her husbad did something today that she didnt like that would not be grounds for an annulment.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 04, 2005.

Who knows why God allowed this suffering in her life? God is able to turn every suffering into good.

-- patrick (prcunningham2@liguori.org), March 04, 2005.

i know that paul h,but if her husband cheats her,beats her etc...i was talking about that kinds of things

-- sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 05, 2005.

Two years have passed since I have posted my 'problem'. Now I am a very happy and serene person. I have found Love inside me and in very special people around me, who genuinely love me. I have done what Abraham, Moses, Mary, the apostles have done : I just followed what this Love was telling me, not knowing where it would lead me or what would happen. It has been one great big adventure. The essence of faith is to beleive,even if there is no understanding at first. The understanding always comes after.

I still have not heard anything from the ecclesiastical tribunal, during the past two years, not even once. But this is of secondary importance, as my life cannot depend on the decision of a tribunal. Life is too precious to waste waiting. We cannot give other people the power over our own life. We are responsible for our own happiness and we get what we think we deserve. The councilors in the Church's organisations have taught me this and I am extremely grateful to them for the tremendous support and guidance they have given me.

As to the debate about the motherhood of God, those who are interested can read : Dt 32: 11-12, Dt 32:18, Is 45:9-12, Job 38: 28-29, Hosea 11: 1-4, Hosea 13:8, Mt 13: 31-33, Lk 15:3-10, Mt 23: 37 (parallel Lk 13:34), Galatians 3:28, 1 Pt 1:23, 1 Pt 2: 2-3.

I thank you too for your understanding and support. My initial contribution to this site was a sort of 'coming out' for me as I was so much confused and scared of claiming my desire to love. I had felt paralysed because I had put myself into this frame of mind. But it is only love which casts away fear :

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love." --1 John 4:18

I have had enough of fear in my life. I now claim what I was born for - love.

-- Joanne Cassar (joanne.cassar@um.edu.mt), March 05, 2005.


As to the debate about the motherhood of God, those who are interested can read : Dt 32: 11-12, etc.

Go to each of your verses, Joanne, and you will nowhere find the words, "God the Mother" or "God is our Mother" or "the motherhood of God" or "Mother of heaven and earth" or any other such expression. Your verses are merely similes and metaphors, not direct equational statements.

But go to scores of other verses, Joanne, and you will find one Person of God both described and named as "Father" or "the Father" or "Our Father" and other such expressions. Jesus refers to "my Father" repeatedly.

The first and third Persons of the Trinity have no sexuality. God never revealed that any of his Persons has "motherhood," but the first Person is called "Father," and the second Person is called "Son." No Person is called "Mother." The second Person is both God and a Man (i.e., masculine).

-- (Be@Not.Afraid), March 05, 2005.


I just noticed that this relatively short 2003 thread has quite a "Who's Who" of contributors.


Pseudo-traditional: jake (jake1@pngusa.net), January 15, 2003

Canadian gadfly: Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com). January 15, 2003

Good contributor: Christine L. (christine_lehman@hotmail.com), January 15, 2003.

Sharon (delipasta@hotmail.com), January 15, 2003.

Gentle ex-Catholic: Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), January 15, 2003.

Super-apologist: Mateo (MattElFeo@netscape.net), January 15, 2003.

One-time regular: Jackiea (sorry@dontlikespam.com), January 15, 2003.

Good guy: Hollis (catholic@martinsen.com), January 16, 2003.

Good lady: MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), January 16, 2003.

Arian ex-Catholic: Elpidio Gonzalez (egonzalez@srla.org), January 16, 2003.

Faithful sem: Skoobouy (skoobouy@hotmail.com), January 17, 2003.

Another fallen-away: Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), February 13, 2003.

Outstanding Mom: Anna <>< (Flower@youknow.com), February 14, 2003.

Yikes!: sdqa (sdqa@sdqa.Com), March 04, 2005.

New convert: Davis (Hello@There.com), March 04, 2005.

Good man overseas: paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 04, 2005.

Mod/Deke: Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 04, 2005.

The ultimate jalapeno: eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 04, 2005.

-- (Be@Not.Afraid), March 05, 2005.


You can call me now Christian Yahwist, John G. instead of Arian ex Catholic.

This is where I hide now, as co-moderator of 2 Christian Forums. You can check out my latest dreams.

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic=Ask%20Jesus Ask Jesus

http://p221.ezboard.com/bthechristianforum The Christian forum

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-one-category.tcl?topic=Ask% 20Jesus&category=Yahweh%2dGroup%20Issues My personal threads

My dream about death

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00CdX1 Can faith stop death?.

Part 4 is coming soon.

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), March 08, 2005.


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