Narcissistic/Borderline Personality Disordergreenspun.com : LUSENET : Domestic Violence Accounts : One Thread
I contributed a letter over a year ago regarding my relationship with an abusive woman....I'm now 7 months removed from this horrible,nightmarish relationship. I have spent hours reading professional journals regarding abusive woman/men trying to come up with a reason why people are abusive in relationships and I think I have nailed it down to a co-morbid personality disorder called Narcisstic/Borderline. It is a very serious/potentially dangerous disorder that mental heath counselors often refuse to treat. I can recommend 2 books for your readers....one is called "Stop Walking on Eggshells"and "Malignant Self-Love". Thanks for readig this. Jeff
-- Anonymous, February 10, 2003
After hours and hours of research on just the same subject, I came to the same conclusion. I was married to a man with narcisstic personality disorder. I had all the warning signs, yet, refused to heed them. He even told me that he did not "feel" like other people. He said "nearest and dearest could die tomorrow and it would still be a good day". And I didn't heed the warning bells going off in my head. This is just a drop in the bucket of our roller-coaster ride of a marriage. I am now out-thankfully and am concerning myself with the "why" of letting myself be so sadly taken advantage of by this man. any suggestions are welcomed firstname.lastname@example.org is the best address. I also am concerned with the next person he attaches himself to. Nothing much I can do about that one, I guess....
-- Anonymous, February 20, 2003
Thanks for the recommended books, Jeff. I have been separated from my husband for a couple of months now and, aside from all the crying, am still scratching my head about what happened. Though I'm out from under his abuse, I still want to understand that why it's not okay to go back (Of course I know logically, it's just a challenge to understand why emotionally.) After reading some about this disorder I believe that my husband falls very closely into the category. I look forward to reading more about this disorder because I think it would answer so many of my questions.
And, don't worry, I know not to go back.
-- Anonymous, February 26, 2003
When I was 18 I met this guy and now it 5 years later. After reading your posts I see that Narcissistic/Borderline Personality Disorder may be the problem. It was really bad in the starting. The verbal put downs. He sorta scared me. Then he cheated on.He is the type where it take him to be caught before he confesses. 3 years go by of us off and on. The 3rd year He actually gets much better! Only after he looses his house and humbled. Now after all this time he has actually turned into a good guy. Even my friends say so that hated him before.. But I am so scared and afraid. I can't trust him. I love him so much but my mind stops me.. I feel like frozen.. Im 23 and I don't know how I got here.
-- Anonymous, April 11, 2003
I married into a FAMILY of Narcissists. They are very charming when they want something. They have a mask of respectability. They are very charming when they need something from you. When I got "out of control" OH MAH GAWD they showed their true selves and ganged up. It was a NIGHTMARE for years!! Mental,Physical emotional, financial, LEGAL abuse, stalking HEAPED ON THE "DEVALUED" person and now one of my KIDS is infected after being USED as a WEAPON, PAWN, SPY from an early age. THE LACK OF EMPATHY,LACK OF INSIGHT,SELFISHNESS, AND CONTROL ARE MIND BOGGLING. I began to look like the deranged one after a while. I was healed by >400 miles of space between, Louise Hay's book, You Can Heal Your Life, Al ANON, counseling and meditation Now I can thank them for teaching me SO well. I know the red flags!!!
-- Anonymous, April 16, 2003
I know that everyone here is sharing grief stories and categorizing their abusive (x)partners, but has anyone here analyzed themselves, and if they are in fact a victim of anyone BUT themselves? As callous as it seems, people don't go around abusing others unless someone ALLOWS it, so if you stay you're the culprit.
-- Anonymous, May 17, 2003
I would like to know more about Narcissistic Personality Disorder. A psychologist has termed our former daughter-in-law as having NPD. Our former daughter-in-law just turned 30 years old, and has had two marriages, four children, and numerous affairs during her marriages. In both marriages and other relationships, she has alienated her husband's or boyfriend's family. We did not see our son during his six-year marriage, nor have we ever seen our two grandsons, who are now ages 3 and 4. Our former dau.-in-law cannot hold a job for very long and has had about 15 jobs in 10 years. She either quits or is fired for alienating other employees. She often accuses other employees of sexual harassment. She has physically assaulted people over minor disagreements, and was once arrested for battery against her first husband's mother. She lies or makes up stories to make herself a victim in any given situation. She expects people to agree with her viewpoint or they become her enemy. She is irresponsible in many ways. Financially she has had creditors take her to small claims court, and she still ignors the debt. She recently declared bankruptcy to avoid these debts. My concern is in regards to the children.
-- Anonymous, May 29, 2003
I would like to reply to Holly's comment - that "callous" one. Holly I do not think you have ever been abused or if you have you have not yet come to the full grips of it. Instead you sit there and endorse a false interpretation that has kept abuse behind closed doors, abusers out of prison, and the abused without help during a period of time in which enormous human rights changes have taken place.
Abusers do not choose people who they will loose to. Abusers go through a long, slow process of alienating their vicitms from financial and spiritual support systems. Abusers slowly abuse their victims emotionally and phsycologically. While they are eating away at their self-esteem and every part of their person, they mix in some good times and some "wins" for the victim and they cover it all in sugar and excuses. When the vicitm wakes up from the haze - when all has finally gone way to far - they find it nearly impossible to leave. Their lives are shattered. They have been so depressed and disfunctional for so long, they do not know how to return to a normal life. They have no jobs, no friends, and no self esteem. They may not even remember what they used to watch on TV - they have been out of control of their own lives for so long and living in a world where no matter what they did they may be severely punished. And "leaving" - that is when the violence really starts. That is when people end up in the morgue... and "standing up to your abuser" - that is how people end up in emergency rooms.
I suggest you read some statistics and some facts. I assume if you are on here you think you are abused. Do you really think it is your fault? You better get some help, because you are a really long way from recovering. Things really start to get worse when you realize it is not your fault and there are just some really cruel people out there and they used you for free. Thanks, E.
-- Anonymous, June 08, 2003
Hi Jeff, I don't know all the details of this problem, but I have read some about it too and think it applies to my abuser. However, I find it a little hard to swallow in some ways.
I feel like I am making more "excuses" for the man that made excuses to me for so many years!!!:)
I also feel like my husband was fully aware of what he did to me and was able to turn it on and off. He was also PROUD of his "lack of empathy" towards others. I think if you harmlessly have some disorder - esp some nutty one like this - you do not go around boasting your symptoms...
I think my husband LEARNED this behavior somewhere and strived to be better at it. I don't think he has an unctrollable disease. I would see my husband make choices - do I hurt her? Threaten her? or tell her I love and let her get a little win in? He had more control over these choices than a feening ciggarette smoker has...
Anyways, let's take care of us and not worry about what they have! Thanks, E. DUpont
-- Anonymous, June 08, 2003
"As callous as it seems, people don't go around abusing others unless someone ALLOWS it, so if you stay you're the culprit." - Holly
I can't stop the thoughts and actions of anyone. Each person is responsible for their own actions and if someone is being cruel etc. they are responsible for stopping that themselves. The target or victim cannot predict when or where an "assault" will occur. You may be able to "DEFLECT" an assault, but no one would rightly allow it.
I envisioned wrapping up everyone else in the world in duct tape, including their mouths.....that would surely be a way to not allow it to happen.
-- Anonymous, June 11, 2003
My daughter was married to a man who could probably be diagnosed as narcisstic. Their relationship seemed wonderful for 12 years, seven before and five after marriage, until they had a baby. Within weeks he was saying that he hated the baby for what he did to their relationship. He told me that having the child was the biggest mistake that they ever made. Now almost three years after the divorce, he is still in the child's life, however we do not know why. Can people like that change?
-- Anonymous, June 16, 2003
Well labels for a complex problem make things a bit too neat and tidy for me, but I will put my 2 cents in here. I had 2 women in a row that met this description, and quite a few other descriptions, and I am sure there is one out there for me too.
Abusives in my opinion like to "rescue" vulnerable people and then hold the price of that rescue over there head as an infinite sum to be paid out in pain and torture for the rest of the victim's life. these people keep score. They don't give in order to help someone, they give to hurt someone.. because they will be calling back in the debt you owe them a thousand times over, pulling you deeper and deeper into their web. If you won't play ball, then all of the so called love and help instantly disappears until you submit to slavery again. The only blame you can put on victimized people in this situation is ffor allowing themselves to be vulnerable and being stupid enough to trust someone blindly without having a backup plan for if they might be wrong about this knight in shining armor that winds up being evil in disguise.
If I had to pinpoint a motive for all of this, I would put it on the love of material things that is greater than the love of human beings and their feelings. An inability to trust other people and a feeling that hatred is an OK emotion and teaching someone a lesson is fair play. These people tend to treat things as people and people as things.. because they like CONTROL and feeling like they are the king or queen. I always look at the parents to see where they learned that crap, and I am usually not surprised to see the fruit does not fall far from the tree.
I am going through a very nasty divorce right now with a woman who has me imprisoned in another country. If I don't do what she says, she throws me in the street or calls the police, and since I don't speak the language, guess whose story they will buy. She used to be an angel.. a real wonder woman, but then one day I was not able to do what she requested.. she did not take that one failure well.. that is when the punishment began and I realized that every single thing she had ever given me had been written down in a book and it was not a gift, it was a loan with interest.. HIGH interest. Even after all of the abuse she expects payment for every single thing she has ever given me and totally dismisses the value of my life or my work or anything I ever did for her.. the balance I owe will always be the same because the calculations are based on insanity, not reality.
In closing, I would have to say don't trust people to solve your problems for you. If someone is going to save you from a problem, just remember the chinese traditionally do not like someone to save their life, because it traditionally means they owe that person their life forever. I think that still holds true today.. NOTHING is free, so don't believe it when it is too good to be true because it is not good nor is it true.
Handle your own problems, and if someone wants to save you, tell them to forget it, or write down how you will pay them back and when. I think it is the resentment and the misunderstanding of what giving truly is and a psychotic, hateful, vengeful mind that creates the stage for the abuse of someone who is vulnerable and in need of a helping hand.
I would say to the abusers, when you give someone a gift, that is what it is.. a gift, not a loan that ever has to be paid back. The person has to CHOOSE to pay you back, not be threatened into it. Love is not about who is right and who is wrong, who is the dominator and who is the submissive. If that is what your relationship is all about, then there is no love going on because love transcends that crap, because that is what that judgemental punishment is - CRAP.
-- Anonymous, June 17, 2003
I was with a narcisstic man for 2 years who nearly destroyed my sanity. It was the best and worst thing that ever happened to me. Thinking I'd found my "Prince Charming".. once he got his "prize" (A free place to live and whatever else he wanted), he started the verbal assaults. I was shocked when I heard the first one ~ Dismissed it.. thinking.. "No, that can't be what he meant." IT WAS. Then, I uncovered the lies he'd told ~ and he got angry that I was "digging".. and to stop, immediately!! His stories did not gel with the ones I heard from his children. Why would they lie? A year later.. intermixing the " hook of kindness" ~~ the little intermittent pieces of bait.. and his horrid self... I could no longer deny the facts in front of my face. The Prince I thought I'd invited to move in with me.. Mr. Romance.. Mr. "You'll Be Happier Than You've Ever Been In Your Life" and "You'll Never Be Hurt, Again".. MOVED OUT. ( We were supposed to buy a house together.. Funny, how all the "Plans" changed when they didn't suit his purpose any longer !! ).. He had stolen from me, thrown my family heirlooms away, refused to sleep with me, etc. I couldn't believe it. I was 53 years old, financially secure, respected as a professional businesswoman.. and DUPED by this Jekkyl/Hyde personality. To those people who have never experienced it.. they can never understand the horrific existence we were subjected to.. To those of you who have? Thank God that there are people who know what I'm talking about ~ have survived ~ and have learned.. If it looks too good to be true?? IT IS. God Bless Us All... MN
-- Anonymous, June 21, 2003
I have been married only eight months to a man with NPD. I never understood until after I read "Malignant Self-Love" why he was so extremely quiet and secretive, told fabulous stories of his past accomplishments (only to later discover that they were pathological lies), and why he would never argue or raise his voice, but whenever he did not get his way or felt disrespected he would covertly pack all his belongings and move completely out of the house without one word. He would eventually call or arrange a meeting with me and act as though he was remorseful with some medical affliction as an excuse or he would act as though nothing was wrong. He never abused me verbally or physically. He is bettern known as a "calling-card" narcissist because he would subtly warn me of his issues with half- truths and innuendos. I know now it was my spirit that would not allow me to legally change my name to his or to get financially involved in his business ventures. He now has no car, no driver's license and has had his computer stolen. He is probably now searching for some new narcissistic supply to get him over this "valley situation" and a safer place to live. I pray that anyone reading this will know that it is human nature to trust others and want to be loved. These individuals feed on that premise. Because these individuals with this personality disorder are hard to differentiate from the general population, no one is totally exempt from having some sort of relationship with them until it is too late and you are left wondering what happened.
-- Anonymous, June 23, 2003