I have always had a fascination for that elite group of protectors of the Pope's demands. So, what is the current status of the Jesuit Priests (Society of Jesus)?

rod

-- Rod A. Rodriguez (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 03, 2003

Answers

Why not ask them yourself?

-- jake (jake1@pngusa.net), March 03, 2003.

Rod, you're not a Catholic, correct? If not, why would you want to be a Catholic priest?

Is your intent to use this thread to mock Catholics?

If you have a question that you'd like to ask without patronizing Catholics, feel free to ask.

AMDG,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), March 03, 2003.

Jesuits "protectors of the Pope's demands"?? Boy, are you ever behind the times! Or did you mean protestors?

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 03, 2003.

Actually, I was baptized a Catholic and raised a Catholic.

I'm currently reading up on the Jesuits and their duties to the Pope and the Church. I meant "protect" and not "protest".

Mocking? I doubt it very seriously. Questioning for understanding? I sure hope so. Offending? Probably most likely as evidence of how everybody gets so defensive over my inquisitions.

Yes, there was a time that I truly wanted to be a priest. Those dreams are obviously gone. Now, it seems, my own people are offended by my questions.

It must be a whole new generation out there, so I guess I'm way behind the times. Or, maybe, you all haven't experienced the changes the Church has gone thru as I have.

Why is everybody so quick to harshness instead of gentleness?

Do you have a sensitive spot for the Jesuits?

-- Rod A. Rodriguez (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 03, 2003.

Actually, this is more of what I had in mind.

Uh......don't get too upset over the following link:

http://www.luc.edu/libraries/science/jesuits/index.html

-- Rod A. Rodriguez (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 03, 2003.

Rod, Paul's reference of "protest" is a result of the Jesuits being not very good these days. I'm sorry to say myself that I have heard so many bad things about the Jesuits, that I am sure Saint Ignatius Loyale must be crying in heaven.

I admire the Jesuits myself, but am not happy with a lot of Jesuits, and how they have betrayed the faith. There are of course still good Jesuits out there, so all is not in despair.

I have heard from a Jesuit priest himself, how unhappy he was with this order of priests.

God bless!

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), March 04, 2003.

Oops, I forgot to reply...

Rod writes:

"Actually, I was baptized a Catholic and raised a Catholic."

From what I've read on other threads, you have abandoned the Catholic faith. If you have, then I'll stand by the question that I asked: why would you want to be a Catholic priest?

Rod writes:

"Mocking? I doubt it very seriously. Questioning for understanding? I sure hope so. Offending? Probably most likely as evidence of how everybody gets so defensive over my inquisitions."

Rod, you asked how you could be a Jesuit. As you are not Catholic, I don't know how you could ask this to "better understand" Jesuits. Could you explain the meaning behind your wish to be a Jesuit" so I could better see your sincerity?

Rod writes:

"Now, it seems, my own people are offended by my questions."

You're misinterpreting "sensitivity" and being "offended" when I am simply perplexed by a post in which the intent is not clear.

You claim you don't know much about Jesuits, yet you "wish you could be one of them." I'll just ask you directly: what is it about Jesuits that makes you want to be a Jesuit priest or brother?

You call claim that they are "elite" and you claim that they are protectors of the "Pope's demands." This phrasing leads me to believe that you don't know that the Pope doesn't merely hand out orders--he is charged with defending the authentic teachings of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Enjoy,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), March 04, 2003.

Hi All and Mateo.

Mateo? You sure are a pain. Are you more important than the rest of us? Your tone tends to be hostil. Lighten up some.

These are not my claims. These are claims out of a book: The Jesuits by Malachi Martin.

I like the idea of going into hostile lands and building the Church where one would seem impossible to build. That takes guts.

Also, dealing with people like you, Mateo. Rough and tough talkers like you intrigue me. You seem so sure of me and my motives. Strange. If you read my replies and questions carefully, you have seen my sincere nature. Are you afraid of my questions?

Do my questions and presents in this forum trigger such doubt about me?

Mateo lighten up. I'm not the boogy man. It seems that there is always some kind of disturbance that I can't seem to avoid in this Catholic Forum.

I have a pile of books on Catholicism and such. I am reading them with the hope of getting back to the Church, but as I learn more about the doctrine I also learn about its followers. Will I have to cope with them in the same way as you Mateo? I will glady take my questions and leave the building.

rod

-- Rod A. Rodriguez (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 04, 2003.

Rod writes:

"Rough and tough talkers like you intrigue me."

Could you please quote the specific words that you would characterize as "rough and tough"? You spend a whole lot of time trying to characterize me as a bad guy, but you don't support your arguments.

Rod writes:

"You seem so sure of me and my motives. Strange...Are you afraid of my questions?"

No, I'm not afraid of your questions, are you afraid of mine? Rod, I explicitly stated that I am perplexed. Almost my entire post was asking you to explain your motives. With all the question marks in my last post, I wonder if you could tell me what I am assuming.

Instead of complaining about being misunderstood, feel free to answer the questions that I offered so that we can better understand you. Is that a deal?

Rod writes:

"These are not my claims. These are claims out of a book: The Jesuits by Malachi Martin."

I've read the book. At least you're letting us know where you're coming from.

Rod writes:

"I like the idea of going into hostile lands and building the Church where one would seem impossible to build. That takes guts."

This is a non sequitur. As is my custom, I'll ask you to explain what you're talking about.

Enjoy,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), March 05, 2003.

PS...

You write:

"Your tone tends to be hostile."

I could say the same thing about yours; but I think it's best that neither of us make the assumption. Emotions are often misread when the only communication is via ASCII text.

Regarding:

"I like the idea of going into hostile lands and building the Church where one would seem impossible to build. That takes guts."

In retrospect, it sounds as if you are answering the "why I want to be a Jesuit" question. It that correct?

Enjoy,

Mateo

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), March 05, 2003.

Hi Mateo.

It is funny how two men can read one word and have three different interpretations.

I'm tired of doctrines and debates. Each side fights for their doctrine even to their deaths, as history proves. Each doctrine is the "correct" one even if it does contradict the Bible. There is aways a loop hole. I'm tired of those loop holes. I'm tired of deception. I'm tired of the battle for truth. I'm tired of this forum.

rod

-- Rod A. Rodriguez (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 05, 2003.

Mateo

BTW, I took notice of your email name and mine.

El Feo and El Rey. No, I'm not the king, but the King is in all of us who believe.

Good luck you're "rough and tough" that isn't a bad thing.

rod

-- Rod A. Rodriguez (elreyro@yahoo.com), March 05, 2003.

Dear Rod,

It is entirely predictable that several men reading the same verse will have several interpretations. This is precisely why Jesus gave us the Church and endowed that Church with full authority to teach the truth. It must be very tiring indeed constantly trying to figure out on your own that which cannot be figured out on one's own. God is so good. He didn't leave us in that sorry situation, but provided the answers for us, certainly, reliably, infallibly, through His Church.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 05, 2003.

> "Each doctrine is the "correct" one even if it does contradict the Bible."

Rod, what doctrine are you referring to that contradicts the Bible?

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), March 05, 2003.

Rod:

"BTW, I took notice of your email name and mine.

El Feo and El Rey. No, I'm not the king, but the King is in all of us who believe."

My interpretation of the contrast: humility vs. pride. Especially on Ash Wednesday, we should remember that we are dust...

Rod writes:

"Good luck you're "rough and tough" that isn't a bad thing."

Still hanging on to this without a shred of proof?

Rod writes:

"I'm tired of doctrines and debates."

Well, you've given up on the forum, but I don't know what you're talking about here. We are neither discussing doctrines nor debating.

You are upset that you feel misunderstood. Since my first post on this thread, I have been asking questions with the goal of getting answers so that we can better understand your point of view.

I'm terribly sorry that you feel that my questions are offensive; but they are not loaded. They are simply opportunities for you to share your opinions.

If you are afraid of sharing, that's your prerogative.

I do find it ironic for a man who calls me "rough and tough" to be constantly writing ad hominem attacks. I'll ask you this: how many ad hominem attacks have I made to you on this thread? Please quote them.

Enjoy,

Mateo el Feo :-)

-- (MattElFeo@netscape.net), March 05, 2003.

Hey, Brother Rod...

You may not realize it, but you're doing it again...

You ask a lot of questions, to which it seems you already have an answer in mind...It seems that you just want to to shock them with some "wrong" that you've discovered about the Church, or get others to confirm your opinionI'm not sure which...

But when they ask pointed questions to you, as I did, day after day, when we were posting, you never gave me a direct, honest, and sincere answer...not until I began to run out of patience with your (in your own words) "inquisition."

I believe Mateo wanted to know the purpose of your questions...As did I, before. But for some reason, perhaps with no intention of doing so, you evade our questions and then accuse us of being "hostile" or say you don't like the "tone".

It is only when we begin to perceive that something here doesn't add up, that it makes a person suspicious or defensive toward you. Then, you complain about our attitude, scratching your head with a "Was it something I said?" type of response.

May I suggest that you open by explaining truthfully what your interest is, and why...and then ask others for their input?

I don't want you to leave the forum. I hope you remain and learn lots about the Catholic Faith.

But I also think you could brush up on your communication skills, or tactics, so that the person with whom you converse doesn't feel as though he is sitting in a darkened room with a spotlight in face, being interrogated. It is your approach that turns people and makes them aggrivated, because we just don't know you, and as I said before, it seems as though you're playing head games.

By the way, wasn't Malachi Martin censured? Some of his writings seem kinda...way out there...

Hope you have a very holy Lent, and grow in Faith and understanding. (Try to understand people, as well as Scripture and doctrine.)

And yes, if you return to the Catholic Faith, you will have to put up with all kinds of sinners! That's because all of us are sinners, working out our salvation in fear and trembling, but still sometimes falling. We're only human.

A priest once told me, the Church is like a big tree full of birds. They are all welcome to nest in the tree. We have doves, hawks, turkeys, ...(and even a few cookoos!) But Jesus loves them all!

p.s. I think you would make a good Jesuit! :)

Pax Christi. Your sis,

-- Anna <>< (flower@youknow.com), March 05, 2003.

Hi All.

I didn't want to make this publicly known, but I guess I will anyway. This is in responds to Anna, mostly.

Dear Anna,

I think I'll bury my head in books instead. I have gathered a pretty good collection of Catholic books and others to keep me busy and away from your forum. The Catholic Forum is biased and it seems that their mission is to convert people to Catholicism. Almost every answer I get from this forum ends with "The One and Only Church of God" or implication there of.

I've been studying about the Saints and lives they lived, the Pope, the Jesuits, The Church Doctrine and so on. I've visited the shrine and witnessed first hand what I find questionable. How can a shrine have the Virgin Mary as the focal point of the altar while Christ's is off to one side? Money boxes in front of statues as people kneel and pray. This is difficult for me.

I finally am feeling better about the Rosary and Crucifix that hang in my home and my sister's Virgin Mary statues. I feel better about the rituals that I practiced in my youth. But, there are many more things I need to understand.

I had to start all over with my faith. I told myself to be open minded and find the truth,or what comes close to it. It means asking sensitive questions and opening old wounds. If people are offended, well, too bad. Some people don't get offended. Most Protestants are eager to answer my questions. And, those answers will definately shoot down the Catholic Doctrine. So, I ask the Catholics the same questions--they get offended.

At least, the books I've found have most of my questions answered by a Monsignor (I don't have the book in my hands at this moment, so I can't give you all the information you require.)

The Babylon book I mentioned earlier was used to try to get me to leave any ideas of going back to the Church. They had me believing Hislop. Instead of taking the book as the truth, I threw those same acusations at "true" Catholics. I wanted to see how you all would answer to those claims. As a result of your reply, I found what I was looking for. Not only did I learn of Hislop's falty reasoning, I also learned how "true" Catholics manifest their faith. I could never connect the two when I was younger. I felt that the only way of getting to the gut truth was with gut tactics. Hey, the Catholic Church has a history of even worse tactics.

I've also read the other replies. Usually, non-Catholics get pretty scorched by the Catholics. So, I knew the same would happen to me, but everything has a price.

I really am tired of this forum. I have two particular books on doctrine. One is about the Catholic Doctrine. Each book claims to be the truth. Each book seems rational and inviting. One book is Protestant. I am continually trying to find the "proper" doctrine. Catholics seem to believe that we don't need to make that decision because the Church has already made it for us. Martin Luther struggled with his understanding of doctrine. Maybe, my struggles are the same as his. And, I'm really tired of doctrines claiming to be the truth.

The problem with any forum, I guess, is that the people tend to see things through their experiences. If people could walk in the other's shoes for awhile, maybe the understanding for each other would be better?

I didn't know that I could stir up so much....

rod

-- Rod A. Rodriguez (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 06, 2003.

Dear Rod, my brother in Christ,

It wasn't your questions that offended! We answered all of your questions to the best of our ability, based on where we thought you were coming from, and what it was you were asking.

Perhaps we could have answered better, if you had answered "our" questions. Failure to respond to our inquiries, but simply throwing more and more questions at us...well, that is not dialogue. We were interested in dialoging with you. See? So, with so many questions being thrown at someone, it begins to feel more like an interrogation than a conversation.

That was what I meant, by trying to understand people, and brushing up on your communication skills. And I did not mean that in a harsh or rude way, so I hope I didn't offend you in saying it.

I do hope you stay!

If you would care to email me you address, I will send you a copy of the "Catechism of the Catholic Church." This is officially composed BY the Church, and describes what ever Catholic Church, school, hospital, parish, family, and individual ought to be doing and exemplifying.

Yes, we are biased about our Catholicism. If you go to a Protestant site and begin asking (perceived) anti-Protestant questions, you will tic people off there, or anti-Jewish on a Jewish site, the same. Although I am certain that you are not an anti-Catholic, but your many questions did have me wondering for a time!!

You may have missed the answer someone (not me) posted to you in the other thread, about the money boxes in front of the statues. That is so the faithful who light candles there may make a donation toward the expense of the candles. We aren't making money offerings to the statue! The average donation requested is about a dollar or two, depending on the size of the candles. But if you have no money, you may still light a candle; it is only a donation.

Of course we are "biased" here in favor of Catholicism. This is a Catholic forum! If we were lukewarm, Jesus Himself would vomit us out. We are on fire for Christ and the Church He established here on earth.

But each person must find this truth for himself, and I pray that you "will" find the Truth. (I am sure you will, because you are not afraid to ask even "tough" questions, and because you are not only asking men and women, but you are also asking God.)

Now, don't be a stranger, ok? And if you want a copy of the Catechism, I will send you one...(or you can get one very inexpensive on ebay). Since you are very much into books, a highly intelligent Catholic convert (former baptist) friend from another Catholic forum puts "Triumph, The Power and Glory of the Catholic Church" at the top of every searching soul's reading list. I have never read it, but I should. He says it is a "must read."

I hope this helps! Pax Christi.

Your sis,

-- Anna <>< (flowerofthehour@hotmail.com), March 06, 2003.

Thank you Anna.

Your words are very well received. I now feel that you have recognized my true nature-- a bit jaded at times. I have picked up on the honest warmth of your nature.

I don't want to burden you further, but if you would like, please send the Catechism via email. I will certainly read it and try to understand it. In case my email is not viewable: elreyrod@yahoo.com

I'll keep that book in mind for my next book hunt.

A good friend handed me this prayer:

"Jesus, Dear Savior, walk with me this Lent in all that I do. Help me to remember that in everything I do and say and everywhere I go, You are with me, calling me forward. Just as You carried Your cross with courage and love, may I courageously bear all the burdens and sorrows that come my way. May I be mindful, too, of the crosses that others bear and reach out to them with compassion and care." Amen.

rod

-- Rod A. Rodriguez (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 06, 2003.

Rod,

The prayer is lovely, and just what I need to begin my day each morning this Lenten season.

(Apologies for being jaded at times...)

The Catechism is a large, thick book; I don't have it on computer. What I mean was,I would mail it to you via snail mail (U.S. Postal service) and you could email me your address.

Or, maybe if someone else knows if it is possible to email Rod the entire Catechism, you could let us know?

Thanks. Pax Christi.

Your sis,

-- Anna <>< (flowerofthehour@hotmail.com), March 06, 2003.

Emailing a 900 page book would be quite a task. But the Catechism is available several places online. here's one;

http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 06, 2003.

Oops.

I really should read every sequencial word and not every other word.

I think that I will be able to get my hands on a book down here if I try hard enough. I really don't want to put you through the hassle of mailing things. I have "connections".

r

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), March 06, 2003.

Rod, I've seen the Catechism sell on ebay for $3.50 for the hardcover edition, which easily sells new for $30. So you may want to try there. (I had a mind to bid on it then, just so I could give it away to someone seeking what the Church teaches, and why, but I failed to place a bid on time.)

If you do an ebay search, you may simply type in "Catholic Book," and what a treat you will find! (But we may get into a bidding war!)

(P.S. No folks, I don't have any monetary interest in ebay.)

Pax Christi.

Your sis,

-- Anna (Flower@youknow.com), March 07, 2003.

Rod,

Here is a site which describes the "other book" (Triumph: The Power and the Glory of the Catholic Church,a 2000-Year History) that my e- friend recommends to everyone interested in the founding and history of the Catholic Church: http://search.barnesandnoble.com/bookSearch/isbnInquiry.asp? sourceid=00402905295698649487&ISBN=0761529241&bfdate=03-07- 2003+11:38:05

You can read comments about the book, as well as order from this site

-- Anna <>< (flower@youknow.com), March 07, 2003.