...just wondered if anyone was going to. And do you think we can believe what he's gonna say??!

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2003

Answers

We'll know for sure on Wednesday :>)

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2003

I was talking on the phone with my friend Liz right before the speech came on. I said that I have the same sickening feeling that you get when you realize you're just about to be in a traffic accident and there's nothing at all you can do about it. I think that what's about to happen was all decided months ago, all we can hope for now is that it will be brief and the casualties low on both sides.

I won't tell you what I shouted at the TV during the speech, it wasn't exactly G rated! :-P

-- Anonymous, March 17, 2003

What a confusing war huh? 1st Bush says Iraq has these terrible weapons. Then he puts 300,000 troups in place where they might be in target range. Why would he do that if they had such terrible nasties? This would lead me to believe there aren't any?

Then the lunitic Saddam knowing he's gonna die would most certainly use all the weapons he has! Whats he got to lose?

If we invade and destroy Iraq and then find no weapons Bush loses the next election and America looks really bad. Is he not beyond making a fictional batch of weapons to save his ass?

If Iraq has the weapons and uses them they could wipe out 25,000 of our troups maybe. Hasn't Bush considered that could happen?

I really can not figure it out why he wants to do this??? for???....Kirk

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2003

Another thing that makes no sense and has not been explained. The last source I've seen says up to 200,000 troups might have to ocupy Iraq for 2 years. Can you imagine the danger our troups will be in from terrorists in a hostile country? Boy I would'nt want to be there! Then there is the problem of the billions of dollars to rebuild their country.

WEW I got that off my chest!!!! Nothing left to do but hope for the best....Kirk

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2003

I didn't realize, until I read this, that I missed Bush's speech entirely. I thought it was TONIGHT! That's because I lost half of yesterday (see OTF thread for explanation). :-( I guess I'll have to go look at some news sites and see what I can find . . . .

-- Anonymous, March 18, 2003

Kirk, there's really nothing terribly confusing about it to me. This is a "war" for control of the mideast; the plan has been in place since the late eighties, constructed by the same people who are running the program today.They have been waiting for the opportune time to administer it, and the American people, congress, and the supreme court have given their blessing to proceed with this agenda of domination of the petroleum producing countries. Even Bush Jr wasn't on board until after 9/11, after which there was no way the military/industrial cabal was gonna let this great opportunity pass. And so it goes.......

the nation

-- Anonymous, March 19, 2003

I agree, E.M. And the whole situation is soooo discouraging!!! It seems that we, as a people, are helpless to stop our runaway government :-(!!!!

-- Anonymous, March 19, 2003

Anyone see the "Bush/Orwell 2004" bumper sticker yet?

-- Anonymous, March 22, 2003

No, but I did see one (a few months back) that said "Re-elect Gore in 2004"! ;-)

-- Anonymous, March 23, 2003

I always liked Gore...whether or not he was a wonderful speaker!! Heck...even Clinton would be better then what we have now :-)!

Kirk..As much as I didn't want this war, well, we're there now and I feel that we should support our troops. I'm really wondering what's gonna happen to our troops when they get close to Baghdad. Is that when Saddam is going to release his chemical and biologicals?? (If he truly has them?!) It's obvious to me that Saddam doesn't care about his troops or the innocent Iraqi people. He'll release his "terrible nasties" no matter who it kills!!! Bummer!!

-- Anonymous, March 23, 2003

Anyone heard anything about North Korea lately? (Speaking of threats...).

-- Anonymous, March 23, 2003

Joy,

I just got the joke! 8-)

Although there's nothing really funny about it, is there?!

-- Anonymous, March 23, 2003

What exactly does 'support our troops' mean?

-- Anonymous, March 24, 2003

I don't know what "support our troops" means to other folks, but for me and Harry it means that we will be sending overseas our encouragement and support for several local men and women. One of these guys we've known since he was 4 yrs. old and now he and his wife are in Kuwait together while his parents take care of their 8 mo. old daughter! They didn't choose to go there...they're just doing their "job". Must be tough to be at the "beck and call" of the IDIOT in the White House!!!

-- Anonymous, March 24, 2003

I have a T-shirt on order that says "Support our Troops. Bring them home!" :-)

-- Anonymous, March 24, 2003

We have a car bumper sticker posted in our garage business window that says the same thing, Joy! Harry's "law" says no bumper stickers allowed on our car or truck bumpers :-)!!

-- Anonymous, March 24, 2003

People who sign up for the armed services are not joining the YMCA. They join an organization whose main purpose is fighting, or aiding somehow in the fighting, Killing, maiming, destroying cities, homes, irreplaceable historical structures, works of art, using force as a means of 'solving' problems. Why are the lives of our people of more worth than those of other lands?

This war is indefensible, based on lies upon lies. It has damaged our status in the world probably permanently, it is patently illegal both domestically and internationally, and although I would never overtly criticise a dumb kid who believes all the crap shoved down his throat about this war, I cannot and will not support him either.

Killing is wrong to me, period. We are a country run by barbarians, no more enlightened than warriors of millenia past, refusing to see the real cost of our stupidity.

-- Anonymous, March 24, 2003

EM...the kid I know signed up with the army to complete his education. Guess he never thought about the fact that GB would be starting a war. Dumb kid :-(!!

-- Anonymous, March 24, 2003

Well its NEVER the fault of the kids who sign up for the armed forces. They simply buy into all the patriotic hype, then when they are signed up, they are put thru an incredibly brain washing campaign! I remember a marine friend who had his picture taken with the severed head of a Viet Cong soldier! Its true. How do you go from a 18 yr old kid playing sports games to a killer getting his picture taken with a severed head? Brainwashing thats the only thing that explains it!....Kirk

-- Anonymous, March 24, 2003

Kirk...I think the military "preys" on the mindset of young men about the age of 17 thru 19. I remember listening a speaker who once said that boys of that age thought they knew everything, but, in reality, they were at the dumbest point of their lives! And this speaker was a man :-)!! They think they're indestructable and don't realize that death is FOREVER...either theirs or the person they're killing!! The army/marines or whatever always use brainwashing techniques 'cause these boys are so susceptible to it at that age. Precisely why recruiters come to high schools to "discuss" military life! Then...after the army has them in boot camp, they're told that their #1 "family" now is the service and wives, parents, children at home are #2. They tried so hard to drum that into Harry's head when he was in boot camp!

I also believe that the kids nowadays that have voluntarily joined the service do so for all the benefits and free education, etc. that they're promised. The fact that they'll be guaranteed a job with good money and early retirement is further enticement. These kids (most of them) don't even think about the killing side of the military. Of course, you always get the occasional wacko who just wants to join up to "play guns"! Like I said...they're at the dumbest point of they're lives!!!

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2003

Yes, indeedy, the military is the best brain-washing organization out there. It's a tragedy beyond description, what happens to these fine young men, how many of them are ruined forever by their hideous experiences in the unspeakable horrors they will encounter. Isn't it interesting how easily we can all see that these people must be forgiven because they are brainwashed in order to do such things as learn to dehumanize and kill their fellow humans, but when someone joins a cult which turns out to be run by a charismatic killer, those people are held legally responsible for their actions, even though the threats of non-compliance and power of propaganda are just as powerful? It's ok for the government to stuff lies down the kids' throats to turn them into tools for the powers of greed and domination I guess.

When will we ever learn?

And then there are the things they will bring home. (the ones who make it home). The cancers and genetic damage from the depleted uranium they will undoubtedly encounter (still active everywhere because of our radioactive uranium-tipped shells from the last gulf war). Domestic violence because of brain damage, which apparently has in hundreds of cases a strong connection to either/or soldiers' required vaccinations and chemical weapons (which of course we provided to Saddam......let's pray he has none left).

I remember well my friends who fought in Viet Nam, and how the war changed them. One close friend was burned in a helicopter crash over 35% of his body, literally scarred for life. He was still a sweet man when he came back, but he was a broken one. He jumped out of his skin every time a car backfired, and the Fourth of July was always a nightmare. He had constant panic attacks, developed asthma and serious depression.

Another one came back a completely different person than when he left. He became abusive to his wife, pulled the phone out the wall, punched holes in doors. They had a baby with a club foot, and he was devastated by it. He works for the MN EPA, is a good person in his heart, but it took years of therapy for him to get over what he was forced to do in that stinkin war. I don't believe human beings were meant to hurt each other, and when they are forced to do it, they are going against their very nature. Men are taught to ignore their own suffering, which compounds their own pain, and we all suffer because of it, individually and as a society.

It's all too very very sad.

-- Anonymous, March 25, 2003

Marcia so well put! I read this medical article about a year ago that said the reason teens are so wierd is that their brains aren't fully developed until they are in the early 20s. One part that I remember said that explains their lack of feeling danger. And common sense! That would explain a lot would'nt it?

Em, in 1968 I got my 1st of two draft notices. During the induction day we were all stripped to our underware and for 8 hours subjected to every test imagineable. Screamed at, made fun of and basically degraded the intire time. Anyway during the pee in the bottle portion of our fun this kid accidentally spilled his jar on everyones papers. Oops not the thing to do! Well they made him drink the little that was left in the jar!!! Yes drink his own pee! I guess the point is they need to tear you down then build you back up into a patrotic killer!

One of my worst stories was of a high school friend who had a very bad time in Vietnam and came back crazy as a loon. Every morning he would tie his legs up with rags so that he could only move around about 4 inches at a time. All day long he would shuffle around town with his head down and beg food. He just died after a while.

-- Anonymous, March 28, 2003

We are participating in the bake sale; try to find one in your area! sheepish,my favorite bake sale name is the one in seattle! ---------------------------------

Find a bake sale in your area.

Tomorrow, from Lincoln City, OR to Kent, OH to Peaks Island, ME, MoveOn members will holding over 1,000 bake sales to help raise some dough (sorry) and take our country back. It's a great way to demonstrate the contrast between Bush's millionaire-backed campaign and our grassroots movement.

If you need a piece of pie or a cookie or two tomorrow -- and who doesn't -- you can find a bake sale in your area by going to:

bake sales

All the money raised will help MoveOn PAC run ads and get out the vote this November to get Bushco the hell outa Washington.

The creativity and energy folks are putting into their sales is just astounding. Over 11,000 bakers have signed up to help. And just take a look at some of the sales' titles:

Beat Bush Bake Bash in Los Angeles, CA Mountaineer Bake Sale for Democracy in Charleston, WV Cheekypotato's Home-made Aussie Cookies, Cakes, Pizzas & Calzones for Democracy in Phoenix, AZ No CARB (Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Bush) Bake Sale in Seattle, WA Have Your Cake and Beat Bush II in Storrs, CT Sweet Eating, Bush Beating in Brooklyn, NY Hippies against Hoodlums (HAH!) in Boulder, CO Afternoon Tea for Democracy in Princeton, NJ Goodies for Good in Davie, FL . . . and the list goes on.

With over 1,000 bake sales, it’s likely there’s a bake sale you can drop by near you.

Winning an election has never tasted so sweet.

Sincerely, --Adam, Carrie, Eli, James, Joan, Laura, and Wes The MoveOn PAC Team April 16th, 2004

-- Anonymous, April 16, 2004

Here's the link corrected (i hope)

bake sales

-- Anonymous, April 16, 2004

Thanks for the info, EM. I see that there's one in Brewer, Me. which about 35 miles from us. We're taking my MIL to the super walmart in Brewer on Sat. anyways...so it works out well for us!!

-- Anonymous, April 16, 2004

EM, There's a TON of them in Seattle? Which one?

-- Anonymous, April 18, 2004

I bet there was, Sheepish,knowing how cool Seattle is! I was just referring to one above in my unreadable post:

No CARB (Cheney, Ashcroft, Rumsfeld, Bush) Bake Sale in Seattle

-- Anonymous, April 18, 2004

---------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------

April 25, 2004 OP-ED COLUMNIST The Orwellian Olsens By MAUREEN DOWD WASHINGTON

It's their reality. We just live and die in it.

In Bushworld, our troops go to war and get killed, but you never see the bodies coming home.

In Bushworld, flag-draped remains of the fallen are important to revere and show the nation, but only in political ads hawking the president's leadership against terror.

In Bushworld, we can create an exciting Iraqi democracy as long as it doesn't control its own military, pass any laws or have any power.

In Bushworld, we can win over Falluja by bulldozing it.

In Bushworld, it was worth going to war so Iraqis can express their feelings ("Down With America!") without having their tongues cut out, although we cannot yet allow them to express intemperate feelings in newspapers ("Down With America!") without shutting them down.

In Bushworld, it's fine to take $700 million that Congress provided for the war in Afghanistan and 9/11 recovery and divert it to the war in Iraq that you're insisting you're not planning.

In Bushworld, you don't consult your father, the expert in being president during a war with Iraq, but you do talk to your Higher Father, who can't talk back to warn you to get an exit strategy or chide you for using Him for political purposes.

In Bushworld, it's O.K. to run for re-election as the avenger of 9/11, even as you make secret deals with the Arab kingdom where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from.

In Bushworld, you get to strut around like a tough military guy and paint your rival as a chicken hawk, even though he's the one who won medals in combat and was praised by his superior officers for fulfilling all his obligations.

In Bushworld, it makes sense to press for transparency in Mr. and Mrs. Rival while cultivating your own opacity.

In Bushworld, you can reign as the antiterror president even after hearing an intelligence report about Al Qaeda's plans to attack America and then stepping outside to clear brush.

In Bushworld, those who dissemble about the troops and money it will take to get Iraq on its feet are patriots, while those who are honest are patronizingly marginalized.

In Bushworld, they struggle to keep church and state separate in Iraq, even as they increasingly merge the two in America.

In Bushworld, you can claim to be the environmental president on Earth Day while being the industry president every other day.

In Bushworld, you brag about how well Afghanistan is going, even though soldiers like Pat Tillman are still dying and the Taliban are running freely around the border areas, hiding Osama and delaying elections.

In Bushworld, imperfect intelligence is good enough to knock over Iraq. But even better evidence that North Korea is building the weapons that Saddam could only dream about is hidden away.

In Bushworld, the C.I.A. says it can't find out whether there are W.M.D. in Iraq unless we invade on the grounds that there are W.M.D.

In Bushworld, there's no irony that so many who did so much to avoid the Vietnam draft have now strained the military so much that lawmakers are talking about bringing back the draft.

In Bushworld, we're making progress in the war on terror by fighting a war that creates terrorists.

In Bushworld, you don't need to bother asking your vice president and top Defense Department officials whether you should go to war in Iraq, because they've already maneuvered you into going to war.

In Bushworld, it's perfectly natural for the president and vice president to appear before the 9/11 commission like the Olsen twins.

In Bushworld, you expound on remaking the Middle East and spreading pro-American sentiments even as you expand anti-American sentiments by ineptly occupying Iraq and unstintingly backing Ariel Sharon on West Bank settlements.

In Bushworld, we went to war to give Iraq a democratic process, yet we disdain the democratic process that causes allies to pull out troops.

In Bushworld, you pride yourself on the fact that your administration does not leak to the press, while you flood the best-known journalist in Washington with inside information.

In Bushworld, you list Bob Woodward's "Plan of Attack" as recommended reading on your campaign Web site, even though it makes you seem divorced from reality. That is, unless you live in Bushworld.

E-mail: liberties@nytimes.com

Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2004

Thanks for that, EM. I've copied it and forwarded it to several internet friends!! Hopefully they'll pass it on. 'Bout time folks are able to read about life in "Bushworld"...as it really is!

-- Anonymous, April 25, 2004