I grew up in the Church, I went to Mass every Sunday with my parents, Catholic education 16+ years ( very good, positive experience, no horror stories). I never really enjoyed Mass as a youngster and just sort of lived through it. I would add, that I've never, unlike a good number of my friends over the years had any negative feelings toward the Church. After college I drifted into semi agnosticism and didn't bother with Catholicism for about the last 25 years. I have however, continued to be fascinated with Religion and Religious history. Recently, as a result of marriage,... I'm involved with the Church again. I now find that I actually like going to Mass. I like the community, find the sermon interesting and sometimes inspiring, somehow during my 25 year absence I seem to have developed an appreciation the ritual and actually find it beautiful. That being said, I am struck by the sincere devotion to the Church by many here. I find myself wondering what it would feel like. I'm so far from where many here seem to be. I sincerely wish I had it but I don't. I'm glad Catholicism is not a totally "justification by faith alone" religion as I wouldn't have a chance. How does faith come to the faithful, or to the faithless? If your basic faith is rather weak to begin with, prayer seems disingenuous. I personally have tended to avoid it because from my rather marginal status it seems hypocritical, maybe even wrong. I've never had the fire that many here have, but my instinct tells me it would be good to have...so does my mother. Jim

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), March 25, 2003

Answers

Dear Jim,

If you shy away from talking to God because you feel unworthy to approach Him - you're right about being unworthy - but so is everyone else in the Church! Who could be worthy to approach God? But you are not right about keeping God at arm's length. He doesn't make worthiness a requirement for approaching Him. If He did, no-one could pray. If you're in a pit, and someone is reaching down to pull you out, it's not hypocritical to reach up and grab their hand. All of us are in one kind of pit or another, and God is the only one who can pull us out. He is reaching down to do so. But we have to respond. If you hear someone whispering in your ear, "you're not worthy, you're a hypocrite", believe me, it isn't God. It's someone who wants to keep you separated from God. Ask God to help you hear His voice, feel His presence, protect you from evil influences. God's voice says "I love you, my Son. Come to Me. Speak to Me. I am waiting for you". The first step in any relationship is saying hello. Your relationship with your wife began that way. God desires a deep relationship with each one of us; but a relationship doesn't grow unless both parties are participating. God is already participating. So talk to Him tonight, and don't ever stop. Communication is the key to a relationship with any other person, even God. Especially God!

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 25, 2003.

Jim,

I like what Paul said, that's good advice. I lived through a similar situation as you, Catholic schools, drifited away, came back years later. My return was via trouble from alcoholism which suffering from brought me to the only solution, a faith in God. At first it was a weak faith but I was sober and felt I would do anything required of me to stay that way. My new life came from God and so I would comply, totally. I suppose a marriage committment may offer a similar kind of awakening. However, I have always been single. My re-conversion, to be lasting, suggested to me that I participate in small spiritual groups that had intimate discussions. At first this was in AA meetings but soon after I joined a small Catholic bible study group, an Our Lady Of Perpetual Help prayer group that met one evening a week, a catechism class for adults, some volunteer work and frequent mass. In other words lots of spiritual community participation as well as prayer and just plain learning to help around the house more which can be the beginnings of charity. Today I do much the same but maybe less volunteer work and I am not in a prayer group. I study the faith on my own more and participate on the web more. You might do well to do some of these things also, however you need to spend much of your prayerful thoughts or activities with your marriage or family in mind. Growing in your marriage as God would have you do would be a great way to make use of God's blessings. There is a great book by Christopher West taken from Pope John Paul II's Theology Of The Body series. The book is called "Good News About Sex and Marriage: Answers to Your Honest Questions About Catholic Teaching" available at Amazon or your local Catholic book store. Reading that may help you grow in your marriage which is your holy vocation and what seemed to bring you back to Christ so don't neglect that. Thanks for your story.

Sincerely

-- Mike H. (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), March 26, 2003.

What a refreshing thread.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), March 26, 2003.

Jim,

Welcome to this Catholic forum! I hope you'll stick around. There is much to learn, and much that you can contribute as well.

Biblically, even the Apostles pleaded with Jesus, "Lord, increase our faith!" We know that faith is one thing we can't develop on our own by reading and researching. It's a gift from God. We sometimes receive gifts without asking for them, but sometimes, we've gotta ask!

So glad to hear that you're now appreciating the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Isn't God patient with us all?!

You will grow in your enthusiasm, faith, and understanding, I am sure. We draw our life from God...our physical life, our emotional well-being, as well as our spiritual (interior) life.

Relationships are better when we treat each other in a Christ-like manner, with patience, respect, and understanding...Everything goes better (even sufferings) when God is in your life.

Congratulations on your recent marriage. May God always be a part of your life.

Pax Christi.

-- Anna <>< (flowerofthehour@hotmail.com), March 26, 2003.

Anna,

"We know that faith is one thing we can't develop on our own by reading and researching."

Reasoning can be used to improve your faith and the gift of faith will improve your ability to reason. Therefore, reading good Catholic literature is a must unless you are legally blind or illiterate of course. St. Augustine would agree:

"Writing the 'Confessions' about a decade after the cataclysmic event that altered the rest of his long and productive life, Augustine gave his readers a detailed account of his conversion—an event intimately intertwined with hearing and reading. The phrase he heard at the moment of his conversion was Tolle, lege; tolle, lege ("Take, read"). To read, for Augustine, was to ingest, swallow, digest and incorporate—to eat the text."

from "On Reading Augustine and on Augustine’s Reading" by Margaret R. Miles is dean of the Graduate Theological Union in Berkeley, California

Sincerely

-- Mike H. (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), March 26, 2003.

Hi Jim and welcome,

How does faith come to the faithful, or to the faithless?

I dont know and admit to having more of an intrest in the "reason" side of things as opposed to "the bible tells me so" side. I feel a bit silly offering advice on such things as I have just begun my own journey really. I guess we all have doubts and we all are learning about our faith. Id say dont feel under pressure to be like anyone else outside what the Church requires of us. Vatican II has been such a blessing and renewal in so many ways for our Church. After so long, finally the Holy Spirit is no longer supressed amongst the laity and we have finally have been given the dignity and respect so badly needly for the Holy Spirit to flourish.

We all have that seed planted inside of us to search for meaning and truth.I dont know how best to say this without offending people ummm Im a bit liberal on my thinking here and believe that actions are more important than shouting how much you love Jesus. I think faith is expressed in many different ways and that there are many different callings for us to serve Christ.

The first and most important book Ive read on our Church was "Crossing the thresehold of Hope" by Pope John Paul II, its been an inspiration to me.

Be not afraid Jim!

God Bless

-- Kiwi (csisherwood@hotmail.com), March 26, 2003.

"We know that faith is one thing we can't develop on our own by reading and researching"

I would have to strongly disagree. Faith does not originate except as a gift from God; but the fact that it is a gift of God doesn't mean that it comes to us only through purely supernatural channels. God grants us many supernatural gifts through natural means. What God uses as a channel for the first spark of faith may be something a person reads, or sees in a movie, or the example of a Christian person he knows, or a significant event in his life. But whatever means God uses to instill the first spark of faith in an individual, that spark has to be nourished and developed. Prayer, study, and service or ministry are the principle ways we can contribute to the development of our faith. A person who doesn't pray, doesn't read or study, and doesn't contribute to the spiritual and material welfare of the faith community will never grow in faith. It is true that God is the ulrimate source of faith, but these essential elements of the Christian life are the channels through which faith comes from God to us. This is why faith and works are inseparable and equally essential. Faith leads to works, and works build faith, which is why either of them alone is insufficient for salvation.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 26, 2003.

"When reason is dethroned, not only is Faith dethroned (the two subversions go together) but every moral and legitimate activity of the human soul is dethroned at the same time. There is no God."

Hilaire Belloc

-- Mike H. (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), March 27, 2003.

Hello Jim,

Faith is a gift from God but, fortunately, it is there for the asking. Do not worry if your current faith seems weak or lacking, because God can still help you to grow in it. All the Gospels tell the story of how Jesus fed a multitude with 5 loaves and 2 fish, but John specifically points out that there were barley loaves. This was the bread of the poor (very cheap - not very nourishing). In other words, the situation at first seemed not very promising (to feed a multitude when all you had to work with is a few cheap barley loaves and a couple of fish). But with this, Jesus worked a wondrous miracle and suddenly the loaves were not only more than enough for the task at hand, but they became so precious that not even the fragments were discarded. Right now you may feel like that boy in John 6:9 - you want to approach Jesus but what you have to offer does not *seem* very promising, a faith that ammounts to just a handful of barley loaves. Give him the chance to transform it into something wonderful!

I think a good first step would be to invite the Holy Spirit into your life (daily through prayer) and to meet with a priest about giving a general confession (I am suggesting this due to the fact that you were away from the church for so long). If you have never done a general confession before, ask the priest how to go about preparing for it and make an appointment with him to receive the sacrament of Reconciliation (it takes awhile so it's best not to do it on a Saturday or such when there is a line of people going to "regular" confession). Remember that it is important to be in a state of grace for the sacraments to properly empower your spirituality.

God bless, -Eric Filmer

-- Eric Filmer (midgardia@hotmail.com), March 27, 2003.

I haven't read this whole thread, so I don't know if this has been mentioned or not. About reading........I have often been told that besides ones daily prayers, it is always a good idea to set aside 15 minutes of spiritual reading a day. It could be meditational reading; in this way you are learning and meditating almost in unison. Or it could be the Bible. Or it could even be lives of the saints; these are great for inspiration. Sometimes as my source of spiritual reading, when I need a break from the 'heavier' reading, I will read a pro-Catholic novel. These can be inspirational, as well, as a source of lighter reading. (I just finished Grisly Grisell - very good.) But I beg you not to think that reading at all would not help to increase your faith. It is a great way to learn your faith, and by learning more of our faith, you can increase you devotion, fervour, zeal. When you do that you are more open to the gifts of the Holy Ghost - Knowledge, Wisdom, Piety, Fear of the Lord, Fortitude, Counsel and Understanding.

-- Isabel (isabel@yahoo.com), March 27, 2003.

Thanks to all who have answered so far. I truely appreciate the time you've spent. I really hope I'll get it. The scientific, "new math," rationalist world in which I've been raised, (along, I might add with many of my friends and peers) made agnosticism a natural, logical, intellectually feasible ... but not very comforting place to be. I'm not alone, I think there are alot of us. However, becoming "Catholic" simply to become more "comfortable" does not seem right to me either. So, I'm not sure I trust my reasons for getting back to the Church. Maybe I'm getting back in the Church just to avoid Hell,... now that I'm out of the invincible 20's and 30's moving through my... "maybe I'll get Cancer or have a stroke and die 40's." Doing something, or behaving in a way simply to avoid punishment seems morally immature. Perhaps I'm thinking too much. Maybe for now its OK... as a start, to just enjoy trying Mass again. Jim

P.S. Got a book called "Why I am A Catholic" by Garry Wills. Saw him on a talk show. He had lots of issues, but is apparently sticking with it (The Church.) I'll read it this week-end... unless it has too many big words.

-- James F. Furst (furst@flash.net), March 29, 2003.

Doing something, or behaving in a way simply to avoid punishment seems morally immature.

Jim, There are actually probably very few people who do *everything* they are supposed to do out of a Perfect Love of God. While this is ideal, there is also another way, it is called Fear of the Lord, and it is a gift of the Holy Ghost.

In fact, there are two types of contrition: Perfect Contrition, being sorry for one's sins because of the offense to God (which is not extremely common), and Imperfect Contrition, being sorry for one's sins because of the fear of punishment, (which is what most people have.) God allows this kind of love, the imperfect love, for Himself, because most human minds cannot truly comprehend God, and because of this it is hard to have that perfect love for him as we should.

The act of contrition says: "I detest all my sins because I dread the loss of Heaven and the pains of hell, but most of all because the offend thee My God."

Just some food for thought. Even starting out doing what we should do, just to avoid eternal punishment, can often increase our love for God because of the graces we receive. Then we begin to do these things for Him.

-- Isabel (isabel@yahoo.com), March 29, 2003.

James

Isabel is right. Most people start out changing their life from fearing suffering due to their foolish thinking or behavior in the past. That is the suffering in this world which is a taste of the hell to come if we don't change our ways (repent). Suffering is a great motivator. This event can also be called hitting your bottom. Makes sense too. Our bodies work like that. We get help when they hurt in order to relieve the hurt. Likewise we get spiritual help when we have mental or spiritual suffering and it can be comforting. The spiritual life isn't rocket science for brainyaks only, it has a certain simplicity, and it makes total sense, and is analogous to many things we go through in every day life. It is a challenge because it insults our pride. We sometimes try to go it alone with our gifts that we don't recognize came from God in the first place. You are doing well. God often let's us have comfortable feelings or joyous peace when we begin the spiritual journey in order to encourage us along. The sweetness in these things may not be so strong later on. The many healing miracles Jesus used were ways for us to know he was who he said he was and we could trust him. They were like extraordinary gifts that we don't expect to continue getting because we don't need them as much once we have accepted the faith. Beginners need such encouragements or more frequent encouragements. Be glad you have some comfort in your prayers and in your new Catholic family, that's a good sign.

-- Mike H. (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), March 29, 2003.

Thanks Mike, Isabel and all who answered. I truely appreciate your thoughts. Jim

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), April 07, 2003.