I don't know what to do, as I just recently found out that my husand has an account on the internet that matches adults...kind of like match making. I was able to get into his "member" information and there I found that he listed himself as single,looking and other false information...or so I thought)! I have never been so hurt! When I approached him regarding this, he denied it - until I copied all of the stuff I found and gave it to him. All he said was sorry and it was never talked about again. How do I know if he's still doing it or not? How do I know that he hasn't done worse? I also found out that he frequents porn sights on the internet! We have't even been married a year and I am so hurt and so confused. I don't even want to think what he did for the night of his bachelor party... We are both married catholics and I don't believe in divorce but I alo don't believe in adultry. Does anyone have any advice on how to deal with or cope with this siuation? I don't know what to do...

-- kmc (kmcovarrubias@aol.com), April 06, 2003

Answers

http://www.divorcebusting.com/index.html

-- been there (beenthere@betternow.com), April 06, 2003.

Kmc, I am sorry to hear that.

Don't assume the worst, even though the situation does not sound good, inrespect to that matching service. He may very well, been tempted to look for woman on that, but that does not necessary mean he has met a woman.

The porn is a problem in the sense, it feeds on a weakness. I'm sure you husband never says anything positive about porn, and if he does not want to talk about it, that usually because there is a lot of shame involved with that weakness. That's a good sign, as then he does not have an attitude of wanting to hurt you inrespect to this.

A lot of people get addicted to porn, and need help, but one of the biggest problems is admitting they have this problem. It's a delicate issue, and like I said, it involves a lot of shame, that they have this weakness.

You should try talking about this with a priest, and you should talk it over with your husband in a very kind way. Don't get angry at him, but tell him that you love him, and don't want him to look at it. Pray for him that he has the courage to talk this over with you. Remember because of the shame involved in this filthy addiction, most men do not want to talk about it, and will most likely deny the problem even exists. Most likely if you push for answers, your husband will get angry, so don't push.

This is a very difficult issue, and I will pray for you and your husband. Seek advice from others, like a priest.

-- Gordon (gvink@yahoo.com), April 06, 2003.

Gordon - Well done.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), April 06, 2003.

Gordon and kmc, I agree 100% with Gordon. God bless, don't give up.

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), April 07, 2003.

kmc

this is only an idea and i have no experience of it being tried and tested, but i would suggest that a large dose of forgiveness could possibly be a cure for this particular ailment. first, knowing that you are aware of possible infidelity but are willing to forgive and forget might ease your loved one's conscience. moreover, a trip to the priest for confession (rather than marriage guidance) would not only focus the mind on the sinful nature of the matters alleged, but it would be a less embarassing situation in which to discuss these matters; and, most importantly of course, God's forgiveness, which is made for ever, might provide the platform that would enable him to move forward. confession is the ultimate cleansing experience.

i would also beware non-Catholic marriage counselling which would most likely suggest that you too embrace pornography, the notion being that, by sharing in it, there are no secrets and no infidelity. however, even if this might work in the practical sense, you must see its shortcomings in terms of our Church's teaching.

i wish you well.

-- Ian (ib@vertigfo.com), April 07, 2003.

Ian,

Forgiveness is a great thing, but if this guy is behaving this way after less than a year of marriage, I would really question his commitment and desire to be married. I fear that in the long run he will not change and that if he hasn't acted upon his thoughts yet, he will eventually. Sorry about the bad news, but it's something I have seen too often.

I do agree that seeking help is a good idea. I do agree that a preist or possible idividuals working for the church would be a great idea. However, I totally disagree with Ian's statement about not seeking Non-Catholic help because they will encourage you to welcome the pornography. I really have a problem with a generalized statement like that. I really have a problem with the thought that only a priest can help. I am sure that you can ask around and find several excellent professionals that can help you. It would be very foolish to rule out any opitions, especially based on the statements made by Ian.

-- R. U. Kidding (openyourmind@hotmail.com), April 07, 2003.

Dear RU

marriage guidance is based upon conciliation and seeks out a mutually acceptable arrangement between the parties, regardless of its morality. just take a look at the website quoted above, and its message board, and you will see what i mean.

to a Catholic, however, marriage is a sacrament, not just a formal expression of a living arrangement. IOW, it comes with rules that cannot be waived just to keep the parties together.

i do not mean to denigrate the value of professional help, in whatever form it is provided. but i do point out that the rules of the Church are not up for negotiation. perhaps i was hasty in concluding that counsellor would most likely urge compromise that involved violation of the Church's teaching. i do think, however, that it is a serious risk.

as for your statement that "I fear that in the long run he will not change", surely only the most outrageous counsellor would take that view without an in-depth assessment of the facts.

-- Ian (ib@vertigfo.com), April 07, 2003.

Ian,

Although you painted all non-Catholic therapists/counselors in a broad brush, I do agree that some of these therapists do counsel their clients in non-Christian values.

I would recommend that kmc look for a Catholic therapist in her area. You can try http://www.catholictherapists.com/. I believe this is the web site that Dr. Ray has mentioned in the past on his "The Doctor is In" program (radio program supported by Catholic Answers).

-- Glenn (glenn@nospam.com), April 07, 2003.

there is also a post on this other thread that includes a Catholic website that specifically addresses the use of porn by errant husbands:

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=00A7Js

kmc, whilst there may be some disagreements appearing here, please be sure that everyone is wishing you a happy and positive outcome to your predicament.

-- Ian (ib@vertigfo.com), April 07, 2003.

Thank you all very much for your advice...whether I am in agreement or in disagreement, it helps to hear everyone's voice. It heps to have people to talk to in times like these...again, thank you!

P.S. - WrP, no I don't live in a small village, I live in a big city - - how is that relevant?

-- kmc (kmcovarrubias@aol.com), April 07, 2003.

kmc,

go speak to a priest. i beseech you.

demand his time and attention; and it may reap dividends.

our priests are our hidden treasure.

-- Ian (ib@vertigfo.com), April 07, 2003.

Just yesterday I found out that my husband has been chatting with other women in a very sexual way and making plans to meet with them. This happened once before - and he had also slept with one of the women. He refused to go to counselling with me. However, I went on my own and through Christian counselling I was able to forgive him. I was even beginning to trust him again when his behavior began to change again. Now,I am devastated once again. How do I go on in a relationship like this? So I called my priest and was told to call Catholic Charaties. They have an 8 week wait. Don't just forgive. Your husband needs real help - as does mine. I will pray for you. SZ

-- Suzanne (sooey53@yahoo.com), April 09, 2003.

Suzanne

DEMAND the time of your priest. do not accept referrals. your grace under such pressure does you credit.

i have prayed that God may bless and restore your marriage to full health.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), April 09, 2003.

Publish the fourth day. St. Rita of the Impossible, I come to you with confidence in my great need (Mention Request). You were very pleasing to God on Earth and are much more so in Heaven. I promise to use this favor when granted to better my life, to proclaim God' mercy to make you widely known and loved Amen. I promise to publish this prayer in four days. Thank you St. Rita for hearing my prayers. Please continue to hear my petitions and answer them if it is God's will. I love you St. Rita. -

-- Devaraj Joseph Jagenderaraj (djjagen@yahoo.com), August 09, 2003.

kmc and Suzanne,

I frankly think that "forgiveness" is an undesirable and un-Christian attitude in your situations (with due respect to Ian who I'm sure has your best interests at heart).

You forgive somebody when they repent, show willingness to shoulder some consequences of their bad behavior, and clearly demonstrate a firm will to change. In both your cases, that seems sorely lacking.

Also, if you tolerate(=forgive) a problem like this, it could get worse.

I think, rather than "forgiving", it might be more appropriate to help your husbands to repent. Some "tough love" and harsh correction may be appropriate here. If you don't feel up to administering it yourself, maybe somebody can help you (I don't know... maybe your parents or a sibling, a trusted family friend, your parish priest... ?)

I suspect that both of you may have grounds for annulments too, if you want to go down that road. Your husbands' behavior may indicate a lack of proper commitment at the time of the marriage, or an inability to shoulder that commitment because of immaturity.

Also if you go to a therapist or counselor, I don't think it should matter whether s/he's Christian or not. Any professional should respect your personal religious beliefs.

Best wishes to both of you, and may Jesus, Mary and Joseph protect your families.

-- anonymous (__@__.__), August 10, 2003.

I found out yesterday that my husband of 28 years has been having an affair with his friend's wife. I am devastated. I have been very sick since July and I am finding it difficult to cope with my husband's infidelity. How do I deal with this situation? What do I do?

-- Jane Vicaretti (newwoman615@aol.com), October 13, 2003.

To you wives, or husbands, with an unfaithful spouse. You are called to do all you can to salvage your marriage. Each situation is unique, but some guiding considerations are the potential of harm to yourselves, your children, and your spouse in living with the continued infidelity. If your spouse is not open to repenting and change to an upright life, this is a sin you cannot forgive at present. You must seek guidance from a wise counselor, and if needed, separate yourself from bed and board with your unfaithful spouse. At the same time, make sure you are doing it out of love, and make sure they know it as well.

I don't advocate doing this lightly. You may need to endure the infidelity for some period of time for the sake of your marriage and children. But at some point, "tough love" is what is called for. It is for the good of all involved. Pray! Pray a lot.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), October 14, 2003.

Jane,

Please see above. You will first need to confront him and let him know that it is first of all up to him to change his behavior by ceasing all contact with that woman. Then you must turn to him and try to salvage your marriage. I'm sure its difficult to imagine, but it can be done. Its your duty to try. Pray a lot, and don't give in to the temptation to hate him. He is human.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), October 14, 2003.

You know I've been reading through these posts as I am sort of going through something similar. I am not Catholic, but I am a Christian (Lutheran), and do feel strongly that prayer will help YOU. Obviously your husband hasn't had Jesus in his heart in a long time, as he wouldn't have been able to do this had he. When I first moved in with my husband (before we married), I discovered he was into on- line pornography. I was disgusted, as I felt he was mentally cheating on me by looking as these disgusting women. But he told me all his friends (married) were doing it and that men are very "visual" when it comes to sex and it means nothing. I told him that if he wanted to ever get married he'd have to stop that and throw away his Playboy mags. Huge fights followed, and I finally gave him an ultimatum, me or his porno. Reluctantly, and without seeing my point, he stopped and donated his Playboy collection. When he went to his best friend's wife to ask her what she thought of my ultimatum, as porno was rampant in their house (and she is a devout Catholic), she admired what I had done and decided to do the same with her relationship with her husband. We eventually married, and soon found ourselves parents of twin girls. My husband transferred to a new dept. at his job and had to start working a lot of overtime. I wasn't working so we needed the extra money. I devoted all of my time to the girls, and my husband to his job and tension began to develop between us, but I thought it was a passing phase. I recently discovered that my husband had been having a flirtation with an ex lover that he worked with, and was in fact emailing her suggestive things. I discovered the emails when my husband forgot to log out of his on line account. I was shocked, disgusted, angry, etc. He might as well have been sleeping with her, because he wanted to. She, it turns out, had written him recently to my discovery, that she "couldn't be the one to f--k things up for him" as he had two beautiful twin daughters at home, but they could still be very close and she'd always be there for him. Of course, I called him at work and told him to come home immediately. I seriously considered packing up everything and heading to my parents (several states away). WE called our pastor, and individually have been meeting with him. My husband now realizes that his desire for porno, fantasizing about other women, etc. is an illness and that he hasn't had Jesus in his heart in a long time or he couldn't have done those things. He also realizes he can't just be "friends" with an ex lover and can have absolutely nothing to do with this person. He knows that if she truly were a friends, she would have showed concern for his emails, not encouraged them, and would have told him to seek counseling. He knows now that every little bit of porno, magazines, flirting, etc. are steps AWAY from God, and his family. They are all small temptations that finally led him to possibly losing his family. The only reason I'm still here is because I know God wants me to forgive him. I love him, but I don't trust him. I hope that will come in time with God's help. Sorry this is such a long posting. My advice to you is to have your husband meet with your priest, alone, and discuss his habits. If he can let Jesus into his heart again, he will see that what he's been doing is evil, destructive and the devil's work. Men have been rationalizing this behavior for years as "normal male urges, etc." You can rationalize anything if you want to, it doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make it holy. Ask him if he thinks Jesus would condone his behavior. That's what he really needs to think about. I will be praying for you.

-- Susan (sbranby@yahoo.com), February 11, 2004.

Dear Susan:
Most of your observations make sense, but you're generalizing too much.

The idea that having Jesus ''in your heart'' changes men into pure, loving and saintly husbands is unfounded. Sin is common and presents a danger to every sou; all the time. Having Jesus in your heart is a handy cliche; but it's not apt where sexual morality comes in. I dare say many Catholic men are tempted frequently; not to cheat on their wives especially, but in various other aspects. I will confess to know from experience; anybody can fall. Sex is a fury sometimes for any man who relaxes his guard. That includes believers.

In our faith we depend completely on God for grace and strength. But merely saying ''in your heart'' as if this gave one strength, is false. Discipline and self-denial are necessary. A person not accustomed to prayer is heading for disaster. Man OR woman. Having Jesus truly in your heart is a SACRAMENTAL communion with Him as He Himself provided; in the Catholic Church. What's more, the sacrament of Penance, reconciliation, is crucial for maintaining constant control over one's sensual appetites. Because upon committing sins, a faithful man turns to Christ in repentence, receives sanctifying grace once more through reconciliation, and is newly armed against the flesh. He becomes MORE faithful than previously. There is no simple method of perseverance; Jesus Christ is supposed to come to you in Person.

We recommend your conversion; and the wayward men in your lives' conversion, to the faith as Christ taught it. Through the holy apostles. There is no other. Then when you say, ''We have Jesus in our hearts,'' you will know you've identified with the TRUE Redeemer of all men, not a representation.

He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. You will never be far from Him when temptation appoaches. And without Him, you are correct. You'll always be in sin.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 11, 2004.

Very well said Gino! May our Lady of Loudes pray for you on this special day.

-- - (David@excite.com), February 11, 2004.

Ditto

-- Emerald (emerald1@cox.net), February 11, 2004.

I think it takes even more than just the sacrament of penance. The addictions described above come from a deep unfulfilled need for love. It may be so deep, the man does not even know it.

If the falls continue, then more help is needed to live a chaste life. Benedict Groeschel has an excellent book entitled "Courage to be Chaste" in which he describes achieving the mental discipline that's required to achieve purity. It means even overcoming the temptation to be mentally tempted.

Chastity and purity, in men especially, is a life-long struggle. And sometimes a little extra-help is needed.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), February 11, 2004.

I would love to concurr with you Pat. Naturally, in many cases, you might be partly right.

What our visitors are here describing is not some psychologically weak or damaged man. There is such a thing as a hardened sinner. Most of all when sexual morality has never been taught him as a boy.

Everybody is familiar with the horny types who never think twice about abstinence. This happens to millions, literally. It's mainly their lack of conscience in matters of sex.

Unfortunately, since mid-century in the 1900's a raft of libertine women was added to the temptations around us in society. There's now this culture of hedonism that loves the sinner, extols him and urges him on. Many times by women themselves. Pornography has to be blamed not only on the consumers, men; but on blatantly indecent women, who love money. Our society numbers many pagans in it.

We know how sin is committed. It's not just those who are insecure, or ''dysfunctional'' who lead lives of unrepentent sin. Many do it just for pleasure. They're willing to die in their sin.

The real tragedy is how so many good and decent women marry them, and find out afterward the sinfulness of the boyfriend they fell for.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 11, 2004.

My mother forgave my dad for cheating on her. Even after he cheated on her, I caught him watching pornography. I told my mom and she put an end to that. She got tough with him.

I was listening to Dr. Ray Guarendi talk to a woman who had an unfaithful husband. He comes on the Catholic radio show called 'The Doctor is In' (www.drray.com). She had a husband who was still communicating to the woman he cheated with. Dr. Ray told her that she was his hero, because a lot of people just give up on their marriage if something like this happens. A lot of psychiatrists encourage people to let their marriages go if something like this happens. Not Dr. Ray. He told her that she needed to let him know that what he was doing has got to stop though.

With my mom, she thought about trying for annulment, but then she realized that she, with God's help, could forgive him. I myself, was really upset with him for doing this to her, but because she didn't give up on him and was tough with him; he is into God now. He goes to confession and to mass. He respects her.

My mom prays the rosary and she did cry when he did this to her, for a long time. After that though, she felt a little better each day, with God's help. She stayed with him for us too, her children. She did it with God's grace and because she loved us. Divorce hurts children so much.

God will give you all the grace you need to handle this. Know that you are a hero to all of us here for not giving up. God bless you.

-- Sonya (johnsonya2003@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

The temptation of the illegitimate annulment is a terrible scourge against fidelity in sacramental marriage.

In America, at least, the divorce culture has subsumed almost all the Faithful (including our bishops) into a heretical belief regarding Catholic doctrine on the indissolubility of Holy Matrimony.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), March 18, 2004.

'In America, at least, the divorce culture has subsumed almost all the Faithful (including our bishops) into a heretical belief regarding Catholic doctrine on the indissolubility of Holy Matrimony.'

Seems like a case of 'everyone's out of step but our Johnny' Pat. I think it's safe to assume that Bishops of the Church know the Church teaching on the insolubility of marriage better than you!

Arrogance personified!

-- bishops r best (incredulous@thearrogance.com), March 18, 2004.

Pat, I would caution you to choose your words more carefully. You can't call the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops heretics in this, our Catholic forum. I realize your emotions and feelings run deep on this subject and I am making an allowance for that this time, but please, show a bit more respect for the Ordinary Magisterium in the future.

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), March 18, 2004.

I had meant for the qualifier "almost" to run through the sentence. It would have been better stated as "including some of our bishops." This is more accurate.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), March 18, 2004.

Yes, the way it read was a bit over the top. For those of our bishops I may have unfairly maligned, I apologize.

Its this general attitude I see over and over that the anullment is something that can "got" by "going for it" that I find obscene.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), March 18, 2004.