As stated prior I read my Bible in the morning with coffee to get my day going. This morning's reading came from OT Nehemiah 8-5 quote

" Today is Holy to the Lord your God - do not be sad and do not weep. - Go eat rich foods and drink sweet drinks, and allot portions to those who had nothing prepared - do not be saddened for rejoicing in the Lord must be your strength.

Qeus: Are we living a life of wearing Christianity as a mantle of heavy metal - awaiting our rewards in heaven? Is this what Christ wants of us as His brothers and sisters?

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), April 08, 2003

Answers

There's a time to feast and a time to fast. There is summer and winter. On Sunday you are not suppose to fast, it is summer. Celebrations are times of bonding among family members so they are good for us too. Dinner was one of the few times our whole family got together. Also not everyone is expected to live the same ascetical lifestyle. According to St. Alphonsus Ligouri, only a small minority of people are called to be heroic saints. The majority are expected to be saved as imperfect Catholic Christians.

-- Mike H. (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), April 08, 2003.

I beg to differ. We are all called to be saints. To be the best we can be. It doesn't mean we are all called to outdo each other in asceticism, but for each person to follow where the Holy Spirit leads them - which will ultimately lead to their sanctification.

Sanctification --> Sanctity --> Sainthood.

With the greatest respect Mike, to anyone who says we are expected to be imperfect Catholics, I’d point out Jesus’ words:

‘Therefore, be perfect, just as your Father in Heaven is perfect.’ (Mathew 5:48)

And on the subject of heroism;

‘A hero is an ordinary man who does extraordinary things.’

-- (strive.for.heaven@not.complacency), April 08, 2003.

strive for heaven

I didn't say not to stive for perfection. Jesus was saying, keep the ideal always in mind and go for it. In my post I was saying that God knows full well what percentage of us will become totally perfected heroic saints in this lifetime. And it is not the vast majority. Look back over history. You can't argue with the facts.

Thanks for begging though...

-- Mike H. (michael.hitzelberger@vscc.cc.tn.us), April 08, 2003.

The only way we can be perfect is by being terminated, and letting Christ live through us. Don't try so hard. Just be simple and let the Lord take over.

-- crazy4christ (crazy@hotmail.com), April 09, 2003.

Hi everyone.

Uh, for me "perfect" means well rounded, well grounded, well doctrined, well accepting of God's teachings and Will. I think the KJV of the Bible used the word "perfect" to mean "complete", not without sin. Shakespear uses the word "perfect" to mean "complete".

But, what do I know?

rod

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 09, 2003.

Rod - I like your reply very much as it shows a thinking man.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), April 09, 2003.

Uh, for me "perfect" means well rounded, well grounded, well doctrined, well accepting of God's teachings and Will. I think the KJV of the Bible used the word "perfect" to mean "complete", not without sin. Shakespear uses the word "perfect" to mean "complete".

WOW, first, the king james version is littered with mistranslations, its really a horrible addition of the Bible. Id suggest picking up a better version. Second, shakespeare, while a literary genius of the stage, was a womanizer and whats worse, he brought what was socially unnacceptable at the time to the stage... makes me wonder if people will be using hue heffners definition of perfect in a hundred years. dont get me wrong, i appreciate shakespeares work, but by no means was he ever a source of morality

-- paul (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), April 12, 2003.

I wasn't trying to say that King James or William Shakespear were inspired writers. I was making the connection of the use of language during their time as it relates to today's meaning or interpretation. I didn't know that Shakespear could be equated with Hefner. I viewed Shakespear as having mastering of the english language.

It would be rather stupid and vulgar to consider Hefner as an etymologist

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 12, 2003.

Hi Paul"don't send me...emails"

You wrote: "Id suggest picking up a better version."

Which version would you recommend?

The following Bibles use the word "perfect" in Matthew 5:48:

Jerusalem Bible,English Standard Version, Revised Standard Version, New American Standard Version, and the New American Bible. (I won't list the spanish versions.)

Some of the commentaries for that verse do mention "perfection" as meaning "completeness". Some of the commentaries mention "redemption" and "love" as being examples of "perfection". Just like God is "perfect", we should strive toward "perfection".

It was probably common venacular to describe someone as being "perfect" to mean like an example of what God wants us to be. But, to think that we could be without sin does not seem to mean "perfection" in this context. I think the better word would have been "pure".

What is your opinion on this verse Matthew 5:48, Paul ("no emails")?

rod

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 12, 2003.

Jmj

Dear "strive.for.heaven@not.complacency" ...
I agree with your statement: "We are all called to be saints."

This is a clear (and especially notable) teaching of the Second Vatican Council. As expressed in an article by Margaret Margeton (who points to scripture and St. Francis de Sales as great proponents of this "universal vocation to holiness"):

"In 'Lumen Gentium,' the 'Dogmatic Constitution on the Church' (November 21, 1964), for example, the Council Fathers taught that 'all are called to sanctity' and that 'all Christians in any state or walk of life are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of love.' While they recognized that the 'forms and tasks of life are many,' the Council Fathers insisted that 'holiness is one.' Therefore, 'Each one ... according to his own gifts and duties must steadfastly advance along the way of a living faith, which arouses hope and works through love.' [articles 32, 40, and 41]"

Long before a person is canonized as a "saint" (or even beatified), he/she is proclaimed "Venerable," in recognition of having lived a life of "heroic virtue." Since even a Venerable is "heroic," and since we are all called to be "saints," then it follows that all of us -- not just a privileged few -- are called to live lives of heroic virtue. Thus, we cannot be "resigned" to being some kind of hopeless spiritual failures. And we cannot post messages here in which we try to get each other's approval of living a sinful life (e.g., unrepented adultery) or even each other's approval of a life of lukewarmness and spiritual minimalism (doing the least we can, in hopes of squeaking by).

In Matthew 5:48, the Greek word is "teleios," which an online lexicon defines as "(1) brought to its end, finished ... (2) lacking nothing necessary to completeness ... (3) perfect". The required striving and praying for perfection of Matthew 5 seems related to St. Paul's words to the Philippians (ch. 3): "... that if possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect. But I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own."

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 15, 2003.