Hi everyone, I am interested to know how you feel about perfection. We know we must strive for it, but do us humans really obtain it? And if we do obtain it, can it be shaken again? How in your daily life would you say perfection can be achieved? Confessing once a month, daily mass, trying to treat everyone the same, follow the 10 Commandments - but we still have little imperfections - I think even Mother Theresa said she needed purification (oh boy, what about us?). So, what is your opinion? Thank you and have a Happy Easter. MaryAnn

-- maryann (maryann.parker@citigroup.com), April 17, 2003

Answers

Jmj
Hello, Maryann.

On the Internet, you can read St. Teresa of Jesus (Teresa of Avila)'s "The Way of Perfection," here or here.

According to one commentator:
"... St. Teresa['s] ... superbly inspiring classic on the practice of prayer is as fresh and meaningful today as it was when she first wrote it [almost 400 years ago]. 'The Way of Perfection' is a practical guide to prayer setting forth the Saint's counsels and directives for the attainment of spiritual perfection. ... Of all St. Teresa's writings, 'The Way of Perfection' is the most easily understood. Although it is a work of sublime mystical beauty, its outstanding hallmark is its simplicity which instructs, exhorts, and inspires all those who are seeking a more perfect way of life."

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 17, 2003.

The new Catechism of the Catholic Church has much to say about "perfection." Here are just some of the excerpts that could be offered. [The word "perfect" will appear in upper case:]

2013. "'All Christians in any state or walk of life are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the PERFECTion of charity.' [Lumen Gentium (LG) 40 # 2.] All are called to holiness: 'Be PERFECT, as your heavenly Father is PERFECT.'[Mt 5:48.] In order to reach this PERFECTion the faithful should use the strength dealt outto them by Christ's gift, so that . . . doing the will of the Father in everything, they may wholeheartedly devote themselves to the glory of God and to the service of their neighbor. Thus the holiness of the People of God will grow in fruitful abundance, as is clearly shown in the history of the Church through the lives of so many saints.[LG 40 # 2.]"

2015. "The way of PERFECTion passes by way of the Cross. There is no holiness without renunciation and spiritual battle. [Cf. 2 Tim 4.] Spiritual progress entails the ascesis and mortification that gradually lead to living in the peace and joy of the Beatitudes ...

825. "'The Church on earth is endowed already with a sanctity that is real though imPERFECT.' [LG 48 # 3.] In her members PERFECT holiness is something yet to be acquired: 'Strengthened by so many and such great means of salvation, all the faithful, whatever their condition or state - though each in his own way - are called by the Lord to that PERFECTion of sanctity by which the Father himself is PERFECT.' [LG 11 # 3.]"

310. "But why did God not create a world so PERFECT that no evil could exist in it? With infinite power God could always create something better. [Cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I, 25, 6.] But with infinite wisdom and goodness God freely willed to create a world 'in a state of journeying' towards its ultimate PERFECTion. In God's plan this process of becoming involves the appearance of certain beings and the disappearance of others, the existence of the more PERFECT alongside the less PERFECT, both constructive and destructive forces of nature. With physical good there exists also physical evil as long as creation has not reached PERFECTion. [Cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, SCG III, 71.]"

769. "'The Church . . . will receive its PERFECTion only in the glory of heaven,'[LG 48.] at the time of Christ's glorious return. Until that day, 'the Church progresses on her pilgrimage amidst this world's persecutions and God's consolations.' [St. Augustine, De civ. Dei, 18, 51: PL 41, 614; Cf. LG 8.] ..."

1704. "The human person participates in the light and power of the divine Spirit. By his reason, he is capable of understanding the order of things established by the Creator. By free will, he is capable of directing himself toward his true good. He finds his PERFECTion 'in seeking and loving what is true and good.' [GS 15 # 2.]"

1709. "... In union with his Savior, the disciple attains the PERFECTion of charity which is holiness. Having matured in grace, the moral life blossoms into eternal life in the glory of heaven. "

1711. "Endowed with a spiritual soul, with intellect and with free will, the human person is from his very conception ordered to God and destined for eternal beatitude. He pursues his PERFECTion in 'seeking and loving what is true and good' (GS 15 # 2)."

1732. "As long as freedom has not bound itself definitively to its ultimate good which is God, there is the possibility of choosing between good and evil, and thus of growing in PERFECTion or of failing and sinning. ...

1767. "... It belongs to the PERFECTion of the moral or human good that the passions be governed by reason. [Cf. St. Thomas Aquinas, STh I-II, 24, 3.]"

1832. "The fruits of the Spirit are PERFECTions that the Holy Spirit forms in us as the first fruits of eternal glory. The tradition of the Church lists twelve of them: 'charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity.' [Gal 5:22-23 (Vulg).]"

2841-2842. "'... as we forgive those who trespass against us.' "This 'as' is not unique in Jesus' teaching: 'You, therefore, must be PERFECT, as your heavenly Father is PERFECT'; 'Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful'; 'A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.' [Mt 5:48; Lk 6:36; Jn 13:34.] It is impossible to keep the Lord's commandment by imitating the divine model from outside; there has to be a vital participation, coming from the depths of the heart, in the holiness and the mercy and the love of our God. Only the Spirit by whom we live can make 'ours' the same mind that was in Christ Jesus.[Cf. Gal 5:25 ; Phil 2:1,5 .] ..."

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), April 17, 2003.

Hi Maryann,

1 Peter 1:14 Like obedient children, do not act in compliance with the desires of your former ignorance 15 but, as he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct, 16 for it is written, "Be holy because I (am) holy."

God knows our weakness against sin. He also knows that because He made us in his image we have the freewill and intellect to seek him out and know him and to love him and to make right conscious decisions. Christ, for those who have chosen to love God, has given us the gifts of the sacraments so we can live a more perfect life. We still must battle against our inclination to sin but Christ has given us the power to overcome sin and become perfect through him.

Speaking for myself, I know on my own I can't achieve the perfection God want's from me...it will take a lifetime of sacraments...confession, forgiveness, and penance...but I will try. It cost Christ his life to give us the sacraments! It should cost us no less than our life to accept!

-- Michael (Pickandpen@aol.com), April 17, 2003.

Rather then parroting cutting aand pasting as is the habit of so many here who do not express their own fears and desires - I believe we are on the path of spiritual evolution which is a slow learning process combined with pain sorrow and eventually JOY in the here and now.

For those who want to wear the " faith " as a heavy mantle I say step aside for many of us live in the here and now as Christ lives in the here and now.

-- jean bouchard (jeanb@cwk.imag.net), April 17, 2003.

Thanks Jean

-- Jesus (I Am@the_almighty.com), April 19, 2003.

Perfection is folly. Christ had several things to say on the subject and in no way did he call upon us to be perfect. In fact, he ridiculed those individuals who proclaim to be above others.

When the young man came to him and said that he followed all the commandments and wanted to know what more he could do, Jesus told him told him to go out and sell all that he owned. He put before him an unattainable task.

Jesus also told the parable about the Pharasee and the tax collector came to the temple to pray. The Pharasee reminded the lord that he fasted three times a day and prayed all the prayers. The tax collector proclaimed to the Lord that he was a sinner and asked for redemption. Jesus said that it was the tax collector who was heard that day.

-- Phillip (crst120@bemon.com), April 19, 2003.

On the one hand, attaining absolute perfection is an impossible task for a human being, for God alone is perfect, and we can never become God's equal. On the other hand Jesus, fully aware of the weaknesses and shortcomings of men, did indeed say "Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect" (Matthew 5:48) Apparently then, He does not want us to regard perfection as "folly", which would make it something to avoid, or at least to ignore as unattainable, unrealistic, and therefore irrelevant. Rather, He wants us to keep it always clearly before us as an ideal to pursue, for only by pursuing the ideal can we be assured of attaining our full potential. As imperfect human beings, we often fall short of our goals. If we set goals that are less than the ultimate, and still fall short of them, then we have not reached our full potential. But if we constantly pursue the ultimate goal - perfection - then we will certainly fall short, but in so doing we will have gone as far as we can humanly go. This is what Jesus calls us to. I know a special education teacher whose philosophy in dealing with special needs children reflects this idea. When parents ask her why she pushes the kids so hard and gives them so much work, she tells them "if you shoot for the trees, you may hit the dirt, but if you shoot for the stars, you may hit the tops of the trees".

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 19, 2003.

We are all called to share in the perfect love and forgiveness that is our Lord. It is an absolute that we all strive for, but a condition that is not ours in this present life. In the readings for tonight it says in Isaiah:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord. As high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are my ways above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts.

Redemption is ours, not through any deeds of our own. It is ours only by relying on the love and forgivness, given to us through our Lord.

If we percieve ourselves as gaining even a modicum of perfection in his sight, I fear that we fall into a trap of somehow feeling that we are better than our neighbors and that is a dangerous place to be.

It's not that I disagree with your statement, because I do agree wholeheartedly with your feeling that we must aspire with our whole heart to follow the example that Christ has given us. I just feel that there is more at work here.

-- Leon (vol@weblink2000.net), April 19, 2003.

Actually scripture DOES say, "Be ye perfect." But what is perfection? Well, what are the two greatest commandments? Love the Lord your God with all your heart, and to love your neighbor as yourself.

Christ says to "die to yourself," "pick up your cross and follow me." Perfection is an ongoing process; the dying to one's selfish desires and rather seeking the will of the Father -- the daily process of conversation; i.e., sanctification.

The sacraments, to be sure, aid us greatly in this process. But it is even more than that -- it is thinking His thoughts, doing His deeds. "What would Jesus do?" Doing the will of the Father in all things is our greatest quest!

Happy Easter,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), April 20, 2003.

Imitation of Christ by Thomas e. Kempis is a great devotional to help aid in this process. My Utmost for His Highest by Oswald Chambers is another good one. Any book by A.W. Tozer will bring you to your knees at the majesty of God!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), April 20, 2003.

Ever wunder why we have erasers on just about every pencil there is known to man?, and if the pencil doesnt have an eraser, there are the big single erasers to use???? Well as you know, no one is perfect, you can try and try and try to be, but we are human and that means we mess up sometimes, so you know will all make mistakes, so perfection, at least from a spiritual human point of view, we wont be perfect no matter how hard we try....Be happy that you are alive to make mistakes and learn from them,,,,Thats why we have Confession as a sacrament, so that we can go there and get forgiven for our faults,,,,Why wouldnt have been given the sacrament of confession if God knew we'd be perfect beings... He knew we would not be perfect, otherwise, why have confession??? right?

-- Jacob (Flake777@hotmail.com), May 04, 2003.