The main thing to say first is that we do not worship the pictures or stautes or saints or St Mary. There is a purpose for images and statues, and this could be found from the old testament itself. Also, it is important to note that if there is a statue of Abraham Lincoln on a mountain, or if the image of someone dear to us is kept with us etc., it is more than just mere foolishness to assume they are being worshipped. The claim that catholiocs worship idols and saints is made by protestants who CLEARLY AND REPEATEDLY tries NOT to understand or know that it is not worhsihp or anything like that, and whose sole purpose is to create confusion among everyone and make their own theology, and to picture catholics as evil in the eyes of those who leave the universal church and go to these heretics for advice.

At the time God had given the 10 commandments nobody in the land knew the real true God, the one and only Yahweh, and so it was a time when people of then worshipped images of animals, birds, reptiles, etc and trees, the sun, etc So God forbids the making of images of ‘any form’ and the worship of any other. In the 1st commandment we see God telling not to worship idols and not to worship any other gods as He is the only One God and that there is no other. In the same Bible we see the same Almighty God commanding for images of ‘Winged creatures or Cherubs to be made to represent His presence. He also later commands Moses to make a bronze snake by looking at which people would be healed. Is the Lord God going back on His command of forbidding making of images when He asks for images of Cherubs and the bronze snake to be made or has He forgotten His earlier command. Not in any way. Actually what He means in His 1st commandment is only that 'there is no God but Him, and that nobody shall worship any other god but Him as He is the one and only God and tolerares no rivals'. Thus He wants to put an end to the worship of any other so called gods.

Please find below the verses from the Bible that will help understand certain points.

["And you shall make two cherubim of gold [i.e., two carved statues of angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18-20).]

David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18-19). Note that all this was directed according to divinely inspired writing.

Ezekiel 41:15 describes graven images in the Temple: "on the walls round about in the inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses of cherubim." Ex:25:22: And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel. Ex:37:7: And he made two cherubims of gold, beaten out of one piece made he them, on the two ends of the mercy seat; Ex:37:8: One cherub on the end on this side, and another cherub on the other end on that side: out of the mercy seat made he the cherubims on the two ends thereof. Ex:37:9: And the cherubims spread out their wings on high, and covered with their wings over the mercy seat, with their faces one to another; even to the mercy seatward were the faces of the cherubims. Heb:9:5, 6: And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly. 6. Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

During a plague of serpents he sent to punish the wicked Israelites, God told Moses to "make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8-9). The fact that one had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent in order to be healed shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it is helps to remember one's loved ones by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants themselves have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for purposes of teaching children, especially those who haven't learned to read.

An image of Christ or any of the saints is not seen by a Catholic as a god in itself. The Catholic church also teaches that there is only one God and He is the only one to be worshipped. The church does not ask for the images of Christ and the saints to be worshipped or gods. These images representing Christ and the saints are to be honoured and venerated, not to be worshipped. 1Corinthians 8:4 to 6 also clearly states the meaning of the 1st commandment.

1Cor 8: 4-6 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. 5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

From 1Cor 8:4-6 we see that when telling you shall not have other gods as well as you shall not worship idols both mean the same thing. This is the content of the 1st command. Protestants divide the 1st command as 2 commands. Thou shall not have other gods as one command and Thou shall not worship idols as a different command, and this causes the confusion.

Common sense tells us that since God has revealed himself in various images, most especially in the Incarnate Jesus Christ, we realize that it's not wrong for us to make use of images of these forms to strengthen and deepen our knowledge and love of God. That's exactly the purpose that Catholic statues of Jesus and the saints have: They are images that represent persons we cannot see with our physical eyes. Since the days of the Apostles, the Catholic Church has clearly and consistently condemned the sin of idolatry. The early Church Fathers warned against this sin, and Church councils also dealt with the issue. Here some examples: The Second Council of Nicaea (787), which dealt largely with the question of the veneration of sacred images and icons, said, "[T]he one who redeemed us from the darkness of idolatrous insanity, Christ our God, when he took for his bride his holy Catholic Church, having no blemish or wrinkle, promised he would guard her and assured his holy disciples saying, 'I am with you every day until the consummation of this age.' "This promise, however, he made not only to them but also to us, who thanks to them have come to believe in his name. To this gracious offer some people paid no attention; being hoodwinked by the treacherous foe they abandoned the true line of reasoning . . . and they failed to distinguish the holy from the profane, asserting that the icons of our Lord and of his saints were no different from the wooden images of satanic idols. . . . Certainly [this respect] is not the full adoration in accordance with our faith, which is properly paid only to the divine nature, but it resembles that given to the figure of the honored and life-giving cross, and also to the holy books of the gospels and to other sacred . . . objects."

The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and images as God, or believing that they possess any divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (p. 374).

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (1993) explains that "Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of 'idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men's hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see. 'These empty idols make their worshippers empty:' 'Those who make them are like them; so are all those trust in them' [Ps. 115:4-5, 8]. God, however, is the 'living God' [c.f. Joshua 3:10, Psalm 42:3.] who gives life and intervenes in history." "Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honor and reveres a creature in the place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. . . . Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God. "Human life finds its unity in the adoration of the one God. The commandment to worship the Lord alone integrates man and saves him from an endless disintegration. "Idolatry is a perversion of man's innate religious sense. An idolater is someone who 'transfers his indestructible notion of God to anything other than God'" (CCC 2112-2114, citing Origen, Contra Celsum 2:40). 2132. "The Christian veneration of images is not contrary to the first commandment which proscribes IDOLS. Indeed, 'the honor rendered to an image passes to its prototype,' and 'whoever venerates an image venerates the person portrayed in it.'[St. Basil, De Spiritu Sancto 18, 45: PG 32, 149C; Council of Nicaea II: DS 601; cf. Council of Trent: DS 1821-1825; Vatican Council II: SC 126; LG 67.] The honor paid to sacred images is a 'respectful veneration,' not the adoration due to God alone: Religious worship is not directed to images in themselves, considered as mere things, but under their distinctive aspect as images leading us on to God incarnate. The movement toward the image does not terminate in it as image, but tends toward that whose image it is.[St. Thomas Aquinas, STh II-II, 81, 3 ad 3.]"

The real intention of Yahweh when giving the 1st commandment is clearly revealed in Deuteronomy chapter 4:15 to chapter 5:9.

De:4:15: Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire: 16: Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,17: The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, 18: The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth: 19: And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.20: But the LORD hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as ye are this day.21: Furthermore the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, and sware that I should not go over Jordan, and that I should not go in unto that good land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance:22: But I must die in this land, I must not go over Jordan: but ye shall go over, and possess that good land. 23: Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.24: For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God. 5:7: Thou shalt have none other gods before me. 8: Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: 9: Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.

-- Abraham T (lijothengil@yahoo.com), April 21, 2003

Answers

Response to Protestant questions: why catholics use images, statues etc and are these against the teaching of our Lord?

Your argument again for the use of images is good, Abraham. You forgot to elaborate on what happens once the people begin to worship, in this case the serpent, that even King Hezekiah with the support of the Prophet Isaiah had to destroy it. 2 kings 18:4

I am glad you also accept God's name as Yahweh.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonzalez@srla.org), April 21, 2003.

Response to Protestant questions: why catholics use images, statues etc and are these against the teaching of our Lord?

Dear Sara,

We all realize that the "giggle" messages bearing your name are not being posted by you. You should know that most of the "please stop" comments about these messages were likewise not posted by the persons whose names they bear, but by the same person who posted the original foolish comments - all part of his immature game. The message in this thread, by "Paul", for example (which I deleted) was not from Paul. I have just done a universal delete of all messages on the forum posted by this individual, which I will continue to do as long as he continues to be disruptive.

Regards, Moderator

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 21, 2003.

Response to Protestant questions: why catholics use images, statues etc and are these against the teaching of our Lord?

It's one thing to have a statue to remember the person by, and to honour, not worship, them. It's another thing when people pray to certain "saints", such as Mary, Jude, Joseph, Anthony, etc., because these individuals are deceased. There is a commandment that specifically forbids necromancy, which is consulting with the dead (Deuteronomy 18:10,11). That includes praying to them for assistance in their daily lives. The only one we should pray to, is the Lord, for He alone is our Mediator (1Timothy 2:5). Hope this helps.

-- jeannette (nett777@chilitech.net), April 29, 2003.

Response to Protestant questions: why catholics use images, statues etc and are these against the teaching of our Lord?

Hi Jeannette.

Necromancy?

I wonder if you can prove that necromancy is truly happening. Is it necromancy, idolatry, or genuine worship?

I do believe that Protestants also do the same if you really think about it.

rod . .

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), April 29, 2003.

Response to Protestant questions: why catholics use images, statues etc and are these against the teaching of our Lord?

Dear Jeannette,

No, your statement does not help at all, first, because the infallible teaching of Christ's own Church does not need any "help", least of all from members of unauthorized manmade sects founded in open defiance of the will of God; and secondly, because your reply is so riddled with errors that it could not possibly be of any help to anyone interested in the truth.

"Consulting with the dead" is a very convenient definition of "necromancy", but a very inadequate one. Necromancy is a specific form of black magic whereby an individual attempts to gain knowledge of the future by supposedly "consulting with the dead". Not only do Catholics not do anything even remotely similar to this, but we don't even believe that those Christians who have passed on to their eternal reward possess knowledge of the future! So it wouldn't make much sense for us to ask them to convey that information to us, would it?

You are of course correct in saying that saints are to be honored, not worshipped. That however is a non-issue since no Catholic worships anyone but the One True God who founded our Church. You apparently do not understand the immense difference between "prayer" and "worship". The word "pray" simply means "to ask". It was commonly used that way in English until recent times. One might say to another person "I pray thee, consider my offer". The word is frequently used in this context in the scriptures. It means "I ask", or "I request". I cannot think of anywhere in the Bible where God forbids us to ask anyone other than Himself for a favor. Worship, on the other hand, is that specific form of glorious praise that is reserved for God alone. So, we do indeed ask the saints to pray for us, but that is no closer to worship than asking my family on earth to pray for me.

You say that the saints are "deceased". Again, a convenient term that fits your agenda. I note that you avoided saying they are "dead", probably because you realize that the Bible says just the opposite (John 11:26). Since the Word of God clearly says that the saints are alive, the fact that they are "deceased" from their earthly existence is completely irrelevant. The only effect that being "deceased" has on the faithful is to bring them into a far better place from which to intercede for us. Which brings us to your next error ...

You say that the Lord is our only Mediator, a statement which is absolutely correct, but absolutely irrelevant to this discussion. The work of mediation was finished on the Cross. We do not ask the saints to be mediators. We ask them to be intercessors. A mediator is one who intervenes to repair a broken relationship between two other parties. That work is completed in Jesus Christ, Our Lord and Savior. An intercessor, in contrast, is simply one who prays to God on behalf on another. Hopefully you do so? You would be an odd kind of Christian if you didn't pray for your family. I assume you also ask other Christians to pray for you at certain times? If so, you are an intercessor, and you ask others to be intercessors for you - both very legitimate aspects of the Christian life. The saints are living Christians, just as we are, as the Bible states, so there is absolutely no reason why we should not ask them to pray for us. Since you believe in intercession, what is the point of limiting that intercession to earthly sinners, and excluding heavenly saints? Do people stop praying when they get to heaven? Do people stop loving when they get to heaven? If I were in the immediate presence of God Himself, and I still loved my family on earth, I would certainly offer all the prayers I could on their behalf. Asking others to pray for us does not take anything away from God. Rather, it multiplies the prayers which are being directed to God, who is the final destination of all prayer.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), April 29, 2003.

Response to Protestant questions: why catholics use images, statues etc and are these against the teaching of our Lord?

I will just state what my Decon has said,,,,,Those who mock us, dont understand us....Just like that

-- Jacob (Flake777@hotmail.com), May 04, 2003.