My fiance and I are planning our wedding. He was baptized Catholic and would like to have a Catholic ceremony. I was baptized Methodist but I am willing to be married Catholic. He was also married before but was not married in the Catholic Church nor was the marriage performed by a priest. We have gotten many conflicting answers to how to go about all of this. I am hoping you or someone else can help. My questions:

1. Can we be married Catholic 2. What are the steps and do I need to convert? 3. Can his previous marriage be annulled to allow us to be married Catholic?

-- Lisa Reichenbaugh (ldreich8@attbi.com), May 05, 2003

Answers

1. Yes.

2. Talk to your local pastor, he may suggest you attend an RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) Program or some other process of instruction.

3. Technically, marriages are not annulled by the Church. They are either valid or null and the Church simply investigates to find out which that particular marriage is. In this case it sounds like the grounds of nullity would be "lack of form." That is, Catholics are obliged to married in a Catholic ceremony by a Catholic priest. If he did so in his previous marriage without any dispensations then the marriage was inherently null. A lack of form case usually does not take as much time to process as other types of annullments - but begin the process NOW so you don't run into any delays.

-- MikeS (abounamike@aol.com), May 05, 2003.

Lisa,

First off .. Good luck with you and your future.. I am going through some similar things.. However I am not converting to Catholic. You will need to go to his church and find out about all the Classes. And he will need to have the previous marriage annuled. ( this will take any where from 6 month to 1 year to be finished. ) I just had all my paperwork filed last week.. Which it took 4 months to complete and make sure all answers were complete and all that stuff. If you are willing wait.. I am guessing the whole process for the annulment and classes to become Catholic will take 2 years.. BUT .. do not mark my words.. I could be completely wrong.. Dawn

-- Dawn Burris (russ.n.dawn@att.net), May 05, 2003.

The first step is to obtain a decree of nullity for your fiance's first marriage. Because he was supposed to be married in the Church and he did not, this is relatively easy. He will need to submit a recent copy (within the last six months) of his baptismal certificate, a copy of his marriage certificiate, a copy of his final divorce decree, and sign an affidavit that he did not obtain the proper dispensation for the marriage. The priest will submit the paperwork, and it can be quickly approved by a single tribunal judge.

You are more than welcome to convert (as I did), but it is not a requirement. If you do not, your fiance will have to promise to do his best to see that the children are raised Catholic. Whether you convert or not, you and your fiance will need to go to pre-Cana classes to make sure that you both understand what Catholic marriage entails and that you are ready for it. You will then be able to be married in the Catholic Church.

If you would like to convert, you should be aware that the RCIA process takes a year, culminating in your acceptance into the Catholic Church and confirmation on the Saturday before Easter Sunday.

-- Mark (aujus_1066@yahoo.com), May 05, 2003.

Jmj
Hello, Lisa.

I notice that you wrote: "We have gotten many conflicting answers to how to go about all of this."
My suspicion is that you may be feeling frustration anew, because there has again been some "conflict" in the answers you have received above. I want to go through your questions and the answers you got, to help you cut through any potential "fog."

QUESTION 1: 1. Can we be married Catholic? [I will assume that you mean, "Can we be married in a Catholic ceremony?"]

ANSWERS YOU RECEIVED:
a. "Yes."
b. Yes (implied).
c. Yes (implied).

CORRECT ANSWER: Probably. It depends on whether or not the Catholic Church issues a Declaration of Nullity in the case of your friend's marriage. That is not such a certainty as the folks have implied (above), because we don't have all the pertinent facts from you. But if "nullity" is declared, then the answer to question #1 is "yes." (More about this later.)

QUESTION 2: What are the steps and do I need to convert?

ANSWERS YOU RECEIVED:
a. Talk to your local pastor, he may suggest you attend an RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation for Adults) Program or some other process of instruction.
b. You will need to go to his church and find out about all the Classes.
c. You are more than welcome to convert (as I did), but it is not a requirement. If you do not, your fiance will have to promise to do his best to see that the children are raised Catholic. ... If you would like to convert, you should be aware that the RCIA process takes a year, culminating in your acceptance into the Catholic Church and confirmation on the Saturday before Easter Sunday.

CORRECT ANSWER [borrowing words from above, and adding my own words]: You are more than welcome to convert, but it is not a requirement. If you do not, your fiance will have to promise to remain Catholic and to do all in his power to see that the children are raised Catholic. If you would like to convert, you should be aware that the RCIA process takes between six months and a year, culminating in your acceptance into the Catholic Church and confirmation on the Saturday before Easter Sunday. However, as a baptized Christian (Methodist), the Church's Law does not require you to take part in RCIA (at least not the entire program, part of which is specifically geared toward instructing the unbaptized). You may be able to go through a shorter form of instruction (e.g., a kind of private tutoring by a clergyman).

QUESTION 3: Can his previous marriage be annulled to allow us to be married Catholic?

ANSWERS YOU RECEIVED:
a. Technically, marriages are not annulled by the Church. They are either valid or null and the Church simply investigates to find out which that particular marriage is. In this case it sounds like the grounds of nullity would be "lack of form." That is, Catholics are obliged to married in a Catholic ceremony by a Catholic priest. If he did so in his previous marriage without any dispensations then the marriage was inherently null. A lack of form case usually does not take as much time to process as other types of annullments - but begin the process NOW so you don't run into any delays.
b. [H]e will need to have the previous marriage annuled. (this will take any where from 6 month to 1 year to be finished.) ... I am guessing the whole process for the annulment and classes to become Catholic will take 2 years.
c. The first step is to obtain a decree of nullity for your fiance's first marriage. Because he was supposed to be married in the Church and he did not, this is relatively easy. He will need to submit a recent copy (within the last six months) of his baptismal certificate, a copy of his marriage certificiate, a copy of his final divorce decree, and sign an affidavit that he did not obtain the proper dispensation for the marriage. The priest will submit the paperwork, and it can be quickly approved by a single tribunal judge. ... Whether you convert or not, you and your fiance will need to go to pre-Cana classes to make sure that you both understand what Catholic marriage entails and that you are ready for it. You will then be able to be married in the Catholic Church.

CORRECT ANSWER: Marriages are not "annulled" by the Church. A couple's "union" is either a valid marriage or something "null" [no marriage ever occurred]. The Church simply investigates to find out which status a particular "union" has. As I hinted in answering question #1, the answer to this question is that the Church will "probably" determine that your friend's "union" was null and void. The difficulty that prevents me from giving a clearer answer is that the only things you have said about your friend's past are the following:
"He was baptized Catholic ... He was also married before but was not married in the Catholic Church nor was the marriage performed by a priest."
A key fact that is missing here is whether your friend had formally (though temporarily) left the Catholic Church before getting married. (He may have joined another religion or just renounced Catholicism and become "unchurched" for a while.)
Another "unknown" is this: Did he always remain Catholic, but received his bishop's permission ("dispensation") to marry a non-Catholic in a ceremony outside the Catholic Church? [Such permission is sometimes requested and granted.]
These missing facts have a crucial bearing on how the Church will proceed with your friend's petition for a Declaration of Nullity. Let's look at the three possibilities, (a) and (b) and (c), and answer your question #3 according to each ...

(a) Let's assume that your friend never left the Catholic Church, but just made a terrible decision to attempt marriage outside the Church, without the bishop's permission. This seems to be a case in which the grounds for a Declaration of Nullity would be "lack of canonical form." That is to say ... Catholics are ordinarily obliged to be married in a Catholic ceremony by a Catholic priest. If your friend violated this obligation without a dispensation from his bishop, then the "marriage" was inherently null. So, if he was supposed to be married in the Church, but he was not, the process is relatively easy and not very time-consuming. As soon as possible, working with his pastor, your friend will need to submit a recently prepared copy of his baptismal certificate, a copy of his marriage certificate, and a copy of his final divorce decree, and he will have to sign an affidavit that he did not obtain the proper dispensation for the marriage. The priest will submit the paperwork, and it can be quickly approved by a single tribunal judge.

(b) Now let's assume that your friend DID leave the Catholic Church and then got married. This is a more complex situation, because the Church begins with the presumption that the marriage into which he entered was valid. The tribunal would have to accept evidence from your friend and other people and come to a conclusion about the validity or nullity of the marriage. This can take quite some time (from nine to eighteen months is typical, but more or less time than that may be required). There is the possibility for appeals too.

(c) Finally, let's assume that your friend remained Catholic and got his bishop's permission to marry a non-Catholic in a non-Catholic ceremony. At this point, the comments related to path "(b)," above, are pertinent again, because your friend's marriage would have a presumed validity until the contrary is proved.

Now, having followed path (a) or (b) or (c) ... if the Church does not grant a Declaration of Nullity, you and your friend will not be able to marry each other. But if the Church does grant a Declaration, then ... you and your friend will need to go to "Pre-Cana" (marriage-preparation) classes to make sure that you both understand what Catholic marriage entails and that you are ready for it. You will then be able to be married in the Catholic Church.

God bless you.
John
PS: Sorry to have to burden you with such a long answer.

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 06, 2003.

Lisa,

John did a very good job of thoroughly addressing your questions, including the identification of possibilities that I and the others had ignored. The church rules governing declarations of nullity are very complex, and it is important to talk to a priest to make sure that your specific situation is being addressed. But since this thread will make a very good reference, I'm going to mention a special case that hasn't yet been addressed.

The current Code of Canon Law went into effect on November 27, 1983. Canon 1117 of this code reads as follows: The form prescribed above [i.e., marriage must take place in the Catholic Church] is to be observed if at least one of the parties contracting marriage was baptized in the catholic Church or received into it and has not by a formal act defected from it, without prejudice to the provisions of canon 1127.2.

Note that the adjective "formal" in the phrase "formal act" is very important. Examples of defection by a formal act include joining another church in a formal ceremony (such as re-baptism), or signing a commitment document (such as a tithing pledge) in another church, or formally withdrawing from the Catholic Church by means of a signed letter sent to the Church. Merely attending another church or failing to attend Catholic Church, even for an extended period, does not qualify as a formal act.

However, if the marriage in question took place before November 27, 1983 (as was the case for my first marriage), it was covered by the previous Code of Canon Law from 1917. This previous code did not include the phrase in bold above, and so the requirement to marry in the Catholic Church was binding even on Catholics who had defected from the Church by a formal act, thus providing another possible situation that qualifies for a documentary declaration of nullity.

-- Mark (aujus_1066@yahoo.com), May 06, 2003.

Thank you, Mark.

I did cover the matter raised in Canon 1117, when I wrote:
"A key fact that is missing here is whether your friend had formally (though temporarily) left the Catholic Church before getting married. (He may have joined another religion or just renounced Catholicism and become "unchurched" for a while.)"

However, I did not cover the special case that you have brought to our attention. I was not aware of this "exception," whereby one must revert to the restrictions of the 1917 Code. I had assumed (wrongly, you inform us) that the new Canon would work retroactively.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.

Okay, now I am thoroughly confused. To make a long story short, the marriage took place after 1983. His previous marriage dissolved due to infidelity on behalf of his ex. She became pregnant by someone else while he was stationed elsewhere. The priest we talked to mentioned the "lack of Canotical form" that I believe one of you mentioned. He has not attended mass regularly since childhood except for special occasions. The reason for my original post was because I wanted to find out if the information we received from the priest at our parish was correct or the norm. My concern is because this priest is retiring at the end of this year and would not be the one to marry us should we choose to marry in this parish. My not being catholic doesn't help because I am a very organized person and want all my ducks in a row so to speak.

-- Lisa (ldreich8@attbi.com), May 07, 2003.

>> I did cover the matter raised in Canon 1117, when I wrote: ...

My apologies. I did a lot of posting last night, and it seems that in a few instances, what I wrote wasn't as clear to other people as it was to me. I had meant to acknowledge that you were in fact the first person to bring up the issue of Lisa's beau possibly having left the Church when I said "John did a very good job of thoroughly addressing your questions, including the identification of possibilities that I and the others had ignored." The only new point in my response was the pre-1983 exception.

The issue of which Code of Canon Law applies is covered in the 1983 Canons 6, 7, and 9. Canon 9 addresses the retroactivity issue: Laws concern matters of the future, not those of the past, unless provision is made in them for the latter by name.

It is a little bit tricky, because the canon laws applicable to the requirements of marriage are those that were in effect when the marriage occurred, but the canon laws applicable to the operation of marriage tribunals are those that are in effect when you appear before the marriage tribunal. Thus, even if you are now seeking a decree of nullity for a marriage that took place before 1983, you are not bound by the 1917 canon law rule that required agreement of the ex-spouse before the decree could be issued.

-- Mark (aujus_1066@yahoo.com), May 07, 2003.

The previous response should have been addressed to John. Sorry, John!

-- Mark (aujus_1066@yahoo.com), May 07, 2003.

>> Okay, now I am thoroughly confused.

Lisa, Here are your ducks, in order:

1) Get the decree of nullity. The "lack of canonical form" grounds is correct, and is a relatively quick and straight-forward process, but you should not begin planning the wedding (e.g., setting a date, mailing invitations) until the annulment process is completed.

2) Schedule the pre-Cana classes. At the time you schedule them, you should be able to find out when the earliest you can get married is, and start planning around that.

3) [If you are planning to convert.] Get involved in the RCIA process to join the Church next Easter. It should start getting into gear around September or so.

3) [If you are not planning to conver.] Obtain permission for a mixed marriage.

Good luck!

-- Mark (aujus_1066@yahoo.com), May 07, 2003.

Mark, I agree with your summary for Lisa, provided her friend's pastor determines that her friend never formally left Catholicism (but only informally "lapsed" into inactivity). The only thing we have to go by on that subject is what Lisa just told us:
"He has not attended mass regularly since childhood except for special occasions."
Thanks. JFG

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), May 07, 2003.

Dear Lisa,

I am getting married in July this year. I am marrying a Catholic. I was baptised Methodist but wanted to have a Catholic ceremony. I went to have a word with the local catholic priest and decided to convert. I started my classes in September last year and was baptised and took the Commuinion during Easter. I will be confirmed in June, all ready to marry in July. I decided to convert because I studied in a Catholic boarding school and got to know a lot more about the Catholic church than Methodist.

-- Kirsty Harrison (krysta33@hotmail.com), May 12, 2003.

I have a Question. I am a catholic, I was married once by a celebrant. and years later divorced, I now want to re marry in a catholic church. My boyfiend isnt catholic, but will happily be married in a catholic church, he doesnt want to convert, I was told haveing been previously married by a celebrant, that my marriage wasn't recognised in the catholic church and If I re marry someone that hasn't been married before I will be welcomed by my church to get married, but it wont include a ful mass?

-- Cath Lochrin (cath_lkh@kooee.com.au), May 22, 2004.

Hello Cath,

Not quite sure what you mean by a "celebrant", but presumably either a Protestant minister of some sort or a civil official of some sort? If you were Catholic at the time, then you are correct in stating that the Catholic Church does not recognize that marriage. However, that cannot simply be assumed. The details of that marriage would have to be submitted to a marriage tribunal in order to obtain an official statement regarding the nullity of that marriage (an "annulment" as it is usually called). Before that is completed, you cannot marry in the Catholic Church. Once that is completed, you will be completely free to marry in the Church, including a full nuptial mass.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), May 22, 2004.