To any Catholic on the board...Espcially John if you read this...I have a problem....I have read somewhere...but I can't find it that Martin Luther on his deathbed ( or live) told his still Catholic Mother that his religion was easier to live by,,,,but hers was easier to die by.....It may have been somewhere in Warren Carrol's history books or Father Patrick O'hare's Fact on Luther......or perhaps on some website.....I have been looking to no avail...I need to document this statement concerning Luther... Thanks Pamela

-- pamela B. (rosylace@aol.com), May 30, 2003

Answers

Topping

-- Sara (sara_catholic_forum@yahoo.co.uk), May 30, 2003.

Not what you wanted, but http://www.canadafirst.net/our_heritage/luther/ has this for Martin Luther's deathbed prayer: "I thank You for revealing to me Your dear Son, Jesus Christ, in whom I believe, whom I have preached and confessed, whom I have loved and praised, yet whom the shameful Pope and all the godless revile, persecute, and scorn."

An extended version of this deathbed prayer is given in http://www.wels.net/sab/about/ml-kuske.html

I couldn't find anything on the web along the lines that you ask about.

-- Mark (aujus_1066@yahoo.com), May 30, 2003.

I am glad that you have written this question. I have heard the quote too. My grandmother told me about the quote many years ago and attributed it to Martin Luther. I think she learned about it when she was a little girl. I can't ask her now about it now, but I am glad you have heard about the quote too. I would like to see it officially documented, I looked on the Web, but I can't find it.

Sharon

-- Sharon (delipasta@hotmail.com), May 30, 2003.

Jmj

Hi, Pamela.
I have been away from the forum (almost 100%) for more than a week, while traveling.

I was not familiar with this anecdote about Luther. By doing a little checking into online genealogies, I was able to determine that the story cannot be true -- provided my source is accurate (and I can't think of a reason to doubt it).

The heretical priest, Martin Luther died in 1546 (close to age 63). If his mother had been alive, she would have been about 86, having been born in 1460. However, she was not alive, having died near the age of 71 in 1531.

Sorry if this disappoints you (and Sharon).
The information on dates came from this page: http://www.marthachurchill.com/family/tjaden-bio.htm
[You'll have to scroll down near the bottom.]

God bless you. John
PS: It appears that Luther's father's surname was Luder or Ludher. I don't know why he (or his son) changed it to Luther.

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 02, 2003.

JFG's voice is noticeably absent when he is away. great answer. welcome back. more please.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), June 03, 2003.

i thought so too ian. welcome back john, still want to have that discussion on the spiritualist perspective?

-- paul (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), June 03, 2003.

Thanks, fellows.
Well, "little paul," some day perhaps, but not immediately. As I'm sure you know, it is very tough to get caught up on things (not just the forum) after being away for more than a week.
JFG

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 07, 2003.

For the Luther myth and others...try http://www.truthorfiction.com OR http://www.snopes.com Both of these sites have urban legends, their sources, and whether or not they are true. Both sites have a "religion" section. It's actually a very fun site to go to because some of the stories thought were true, aren't. Others, I didn't know about ARE true, i.e., the animal that played Mr. Ed in the TV show, was not a horse but a zebra. I know...it's not spiritual, but afterall, isn't TRUTH really important...even if it IS about a zebra, ha ha! The search for truth is what lead me to the Catholic Church in the first place...and that's no laughing matter.

Peace,

-- Victoria (tecdork99@pvfnet.com), June 22, 2003.

Hi, Victoria. I think that someone succeeded in pulling your leg about Mr. Ed. The following is from a 2001 article in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

"If you don't have access to a computer, calling Carnegie Library's ready reference line is a great way to access information that many surfers spend too much time looking for on the Internet. Ron Coleman is one of six library assistants in Carnegie's main library whose job is to answer any questions that can be answered in three to five minutes. Here's one of his personal favorites: 'Is Mount Rushmore natural or manmade?' Call him if you can't figure this one out. 'Just yesterday, I was asked if Mr. Ed [of TV fame] was really a zebra, not a horse,' says Coleman. 'There is an urban legend going around these days that Mr. Ed was actually a zebra.' Like most urban legends, this one is planted loosely in fact. Coleman says the producers of 'Mr. Ed' sometimes did use a zebra to shoot difficult stunts. Most of the time, however, Mr. Ed was what he seemed to be, a horse who, unlike what he seemed to do, could not actually talk. They put peanut butter on his mouth to make it move that way. Mr. Ed was just his stage name; his real name was Bamboo Harvester. See, you learn something new every day."

God bless you.
John
PS: When "Mr. Ed" was a "first-run" series, I was a big fan!

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 23, 2003.

Yes, of course you are right, John. I didn't go into the details to save space on the post, but the site at www.snopes.com does go into the fact that the zebra was trained already to do stunts because she was a performer at Jungleland, which was near the studio. Of course they used the horse for personal appearances and publicity. The zebra did only shoot the stunts because apparently on the types of black and white TV cameras they had, her stripes did not show. They mention the peanut butter for making him talk, also.

Well, anyway...you are correct in that they only used the zebra some of the time, BUT they did still use a zebra. I loved that show, too!

John, I'll say it again...you are a great scholar and a great writer. Keep up the good work!

-- Victoria (tecdork99@pvfnet.com), June 24, 2003.