When my brother-inlaw died three years ago, we had no problem working with the church deacon to have a service that was comforting to the family. The man died young, with kids, and there service was meaningfull. When my dad died a year later, there services were held in his church one diecese away and there was a choice of only a few hymms- nothing really meaningful to our family. But at least we had the opportunity to have a proper eulogy. When Mom died last month, we were told there would not be a time for a eulogy. If we wanted a family member to say a few words, it had to be before Mass! Then, at the time for the sermon, the priest tried to wing a eulogy by asking questions of the family ... and it was just plain dumb. It seems that this church has found a way to refuse ordinary comfort and replaced it with a final lesson in "who's in charge". Is this something that is going on everywhere? Have all the churches forbidden families a choice of personally meaningful hymns? Have they eliminated eulogies?

-- Bob Hennessy (bobhenn@hotmail.com), June 03, 2003

Answers

certainly not the case in my parish. i'd look at other parishes for funerals if i were you.

-- paul (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), June 03, 2003.

I'm not a conservative Catholic by any means, but as I understand it, the time for eulogizing is at the wake service or the Rosary the night before. A funeral Mass is just that . . . a Mass!

You would not get up at a regular Sunday Mass and go off on your own, nor should you do so at a Funeral Mass. The Funeral Mass is a time to be present to listen to the voice of God, for God is most assuredly present. The Funeral Mass is a Mass of celebration; it's not a memoral to the life of the deceased, but a celebration of salvation. The promises of Baptism, made whole.

I don't pretend to know what the background of your particular parish is or what position your diocese takes or what it teaches about a proper Funeral Mass, but perhaps you should go to your Diocesan Liturgical representative and listen to what he has to say on the matter.

I say listen to what he has to say, because he should be able to put new light on the matter for you, IF you are willing to listen and hear him through. If you want the service to be . . . the way you want it; you most assuredly will go away empty handed, because, I've found, that's not how our church works.

And that's the way it should be.

I'm sure the Funeral was not meant to be a final lesson as to who's in charge. I'm not a cradle Catholic; I've only been a Catholic for about ten years, but even I know, who's in charge . . . and it's not me.

And that the way it should be.

-- Leon (vol@weblink2000.net), June 04, 2003.

Leon, I've been to some Catholic Funeral Masses, and they've always talked about the deceased, whether it was the priest doing so (if he knew the person well), or family members were allowed to do so (kind of takes the place of the sermon). Bob's family certainly should have had some input into the Mass, from the type of music to who was going to read the Liturgy. It is no different from a Wedding Mass in that respect.

The only time there doesn't seem to be a eulogy is if there is a graveside service in lieu of a Mass.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), June 05, 2003.

Jmj

Hello, folks.
I recommend that those in favor of eulogies read the "Christian funerals" section of the Catechism of the Catholic Church (articles 1680 - 1690). The following article is particularly significant to this thread:
"1688 The liturgy of the Word during funerals demands very careful preparation because the assembly present for the funeral may include some faithful who rarely attend the liturgy, and friends of the deceased who are not Christians. The homily in particular must 'avoid the literary genre of funeral eulogy' and illumine the mystery of Christian death in the light of the risen Christ."

One of the very best bishops in the U.S., Archbishop John Myers of Newark (formerly of Peoria), has forbidden eulogies during the entire funeral Mass (and I doubt that he is alone among bishops in doing this). I strongly recommend that folks read this January, 2003, article on the Newark discipline, which appears to show that the absence of a eulogy at Mass is what the Vatican desires for the whole Catholic Church.

A slightly different decision was made by the bishop of Columbus, Ohio, as reflected in these parish guidelines. They discourage a eulogy at Mass, but permit a very brief one (pre-edited by the priest) to be read after Holy Communion, if this is desired by the family.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 07, 2003.

John, those links were very good. I liked the one from Ohio--the picture accompanying it was beautiful, and it seems a good compromise, and though I winced at the thought of having to have something "approved" first, I could see the point about having it brief.

But I do think that there should be at least some effort to accomodate the family's wishes as far as hymns--if they've been sung in the parish before, and are in the songbook, they should definitely be allowed. Others (like some of the old gospel standards) also convey beautiful images of God and should be looked at for inclusion as well.

-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), June 09, 2003.

Thanks, GT. I agree with you about the hymns.
The use of the right hymns can be very consoling to family members.
JFG

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 09, 2003.

I just hit this page by accident looking for some song for my wedding later on it the year. I'm an Irish catholic and I suppose it would be generally accepted that the Irish are the 'Best Catholics in the world' (now whether that is true anymore or not I can’t really say.) Having lost both parents in a short space of time I have been through two very intense funerals and been involved in the world religion for many years from Altar server to Coordinator I have seen many changes and many ideas. I do feel that a previous entry is very naive in the statement, "but even I know, who's in charge.. and it's not me". YES you are in charge. The priest does not own the church - YOU are the church the priest is just a facilitator and in Ireland that is certainly the case. If a priest here was to tell you what to do as regards a funeral mass of your loved one he would be very quickly substituted. When it comes to either weddings or funerals we can marry in any church and have any priest we wish to bury/marry us. This is a great facility and it is standard across the country. Both my parents were buried from a different parish and even though their own parish priest said the mass he didn't care what church was used or indeed if he was to say the mass. (In this instance it just happen to be that he was a good friend of my parents.) As regards songs well I have to agree with canon law on this one and rule out pop songs. But it is not unheard of an Irish traditional piece of music to be played and a funeral or wedding here. Indeed after an uncle of mine had died a number of years ago as the coffin was leaving the church his niece sang two verses of Danny Boy, as this was his song. No objection from the clergy!! I suppose the eulogy is different here for us. Normally in Ireland we wake the person for 2-3 days (Maybe longer if relatives are coming for the US or Australia!) and usually anything that had to be said about the deceased has been said many times and by many people it isn't often that a eulogy is said at the mass. Quite often it is found that the priest (usually a family friend of some sorts) will talk about the deceased and their family. On the few occasions that I have been present for a eulogy its usually after communion and it’s very short (unless it a really snobby family and then it could go on for a while!) I think we need to realise that God is our judge and master and the priest is just his representative. In Ireland the people built the churches and it’s the money given to the churches from the communities that keeps them there. In this changing time I think it would be a lot more in the interest of the church to keep it’s community than to drive them out by imposing laws and regulations that are more draconian than government laws. There was a very old priest who was a very good friend of mine. He was Vatican one and had always found it hard to adjust to the changes that the second council had brought in. He believed in the ‘Soldiers of Christ” and all the divinity that went with the era. One thing I learned from him was that ‘If God wanted Canon law it would have been presented in stone tablets’. Funny enough I really think he was right! I’m getting married in September to a Presbyterian woman. The priest's in my local church get on great with her (she’s half Italian and I suppose that says it all!) Were getting married in a church about 15 miles from our home town a very small community church and a friend of mine whom I went to school with almost 10 years ago is saying the mass. He’s from a completely different parish. NO HASSLE AT ALL! This is simple Catholicism at its best.

God bless Martin

-- Martin Gallagher (doc_gallagher@hotmail.com), June 23, 2003.

Thank you, Martin.
You have succeeded in confirming what I have long suspected -- namely, that the Irish are no longer the "Best Catholics in the world."
Your scoffing attitude toward authority and obedience is terribly disedifying. I now understand why thousands of "Catholic" Irish women now go over to Britain every year to have their unborn babies murdered, why the Irish birthrate is now non-reproductive, why your people elect pro-aborts like Mrs. Robinson, etc.. The Irish of Ireland are apparently moribund -- although I understand that Rosemary "Dana" Brown, the great Irish pro-life singer (turned politician), is back home from America, trying to revive your near-corpses.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@Hotmail.com), June 23, 2003.

John I am so sorry to hear the anger and tension in your written voice. I find it hard to believe that you have sat there and classified all the Irish with the same brand. I didn't think I slashed any nation in my reply not even you and here I find myself been shouted at in a loud 'voice'. John while there are 'thousands' of Irish women going to England every year to have abortions there are millions all over the world not traveling!! and neither you nor I can ever resolve this. I am very much against abortion and have campaigned many times for pro life in my time. I have very strong virtues John and like abortion Divorce is not an option for me either. Nor was it for Irish people until the last 6 years but not it is legislation and we are not going to change that either. I had two fantastic parents who both went to daily mass and had a very good relationship with God, yet both died a really long horrible death from cancer and this still did not shake my faith. The ways of my neighbours and friends were not up for discussion John. They have their faith, their ways and I (or we) have ours. I live each day as best as I can and will always have what my parents gave me in my faith. My previous letter was only concerning the good community bonds that are between priests here and their communities. What I was trying to get across to folks was that they are the people of God not the priest and they have the rights to do what they want in accordance with the word of God. This is what a catholic is all about. 'Universal', the true meaning, been adaptable to situations but at all times to 'Love your neighbour as yourself.' God never told us to be obedient to any man and as for authority, well I think that the parable of the washing of the feet on that night over 2000 years ago pretty much sums up Gods attitude to authority. John you are entitled to express any opinion that you wish against me or my statements but please do not generalise the Irish as we are a nation that have been 'Pro-tested' against for more that a hundred years and I am proud of our people who have survived this long. When my mother was a teenager she could not get career work in her hometown because she was catholic! There are still many shops like this today! Young people gave up on religion because of criticism and lack of encouragement from a lot of their peers and sadly faith is slipping by. However please God things will change and someday they might come back to God and their faith

-- Martin Gallagher (docs_gallagher@hotmail.com), June 30, 2003.

Dear Martin, Thank you for your well written, thought out response. I've been able to visit Ireland a couple of times in the last two years, and I truly loved it. I find it remarkable that the Irish have been able to put the church in its rightful place. There seems so little rancor within the church there, as opposed to the venomous gotcha attitude displayed by so many American Catholics. I really found a little relief and comfort from your words. Bless you.

-- Bob Hennessy (bobhen@hotmail.com), June 30, 2003.

Jmj
Hello, Martin.

You wrote: "John I am so sorry to hear the anger and tension in your written voice."

Martin, I can assure you that I had (and still have) no "anger and tension." Making that kind of unfounded comment about a person ("anger and tension") is characteristic of two kinds of people -- and I'm not sure which one you are:
(1) Those who try to fool other readers into believing that the "angry, tense" person has nothing valid to say, but is only speaking emotionally ...
(2) Those who are lashing out blindly, due to feelings of guilt.

Either way, Martin, when I saw those opening words of yours, I knew that a load of hogwash was coming. (Of course, I knew that hogwash had to be coming, since you had previously made this outrageous comment: "YOU are the church, the priest is just a facilitator.") There's no point in my going through all your old and new errors, though, Martin, because I can see that you aren't open to correction. I'll just say a little prayer for you instead.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 30, 2003.

Hello all,

I was just looking online for resources I could show my mother to somehow explain that the Funeral Mass was not meant for several people to get up in front of everyone and each give a separate eulogy for the deceased. In the process I stumbled upon this thread and began reading. I would like to add my two cents, for what it's worth.

A comment was made that the people are the Church, and not the Priest. Another comment was made stressing the importance of obedience. Perhaps this perspective might help... it is true that the people are the body of the Church, with Christ as the head of the body (as the founder of the Church). But "the people" of the Church INCLUDES the Priest. The Priest is no less of a member of the Church than the people, and indeed, St. Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians 12:27- 28, "Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, spakers in various kinds of tongues." So it seems that each person has a role to play -- the role of the Priest is to instruct the faithful in the Catholic faith... essentially, to be an "other Christ" to His Church (to instruct, to heal, to offer the flesh and blood of our Lord through the Eucharist in atonement for our sins). When Jesus is preparing the 70 (or 72) to go and proclaim the kingdom of God, He tells them, "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

If God calls someone to preach the good news, we should listen, lest we reject God Himself. If God calls some people to be administrators, we should also listen. Now, do some Priests and Bishops teach false doctrine? Sadly, yes. But when the Church as a whole comes together and puts forth doctrinal or disciplinary rules (choice of books in the Bible, the Catechism, Canon Law, etc.), we should listen, even if God Himself didn't engrave it in stone. Does the faith consist of Canon Law? Canon Law isn't meant to be a doctrinal dissertation, but rather a way to make worship orderly. Could Church leaders (the Pope, other bishops, etc.) change Canon Law? Sure, if it's only a disciplinary practice, and not a point of dogma. But orderly worship is important and should not be disregarded in lieu of personal preference, ESPECIALLY if one hasn't taken the time to try to understand the reasons behind doctrine, Canon Law, etc.

The laity have a major role to play in the work of the Church, but revising Canon Law and/or setting guidelines for a particular diocese are not roles for the average layman. Our role vis-a-vis doctrine and Canon Law is to understand these rules -- not simply dismiss them as draconian -- and learn to abide by them, instructing others to do the same.

I hope this sheds some light on the subject. I bear no ill well towards anyone, and I humbly admit that what I have written may not be totally correct. (After all, it is not my role, at present, to be a Priest!) But this is how I understand it, and I thought it may be of some benefit to all of you. If I am wrong, correct me... gently, please! :)

May Our Lord Jesus Christ be praised, now and forever, Tim

-- Tim Weidner (tjw163@pngusa.net), August 08, 2003.