gates of haydes. : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread

The gates of haydes shall not prevail against the church.

If this is what scripture teaches, then why does the catholic church teach that you can lose your salvation ?

How can the verse that says that the gates of haydes shall not prevail against the church, is it talking about 100% of the church or a lesser figure ?

And how can this verse be stretched to only talk about the doctrines held by the RCC ?

-- anon (, June 23, 2003


Dear anon,

ALL scripture verses refer to teachings of the Catholic Church, since the Catholic Church compiled the book for its own use, and there was no other Christian Church on earth at the time the scriptures were written. Other churches which have taken these writings from their Catholic source will try mightily to force the text to fit their various doctrines and traditions, but the only natural fit is between the teachings of the Catholic Church and the scriptures of that same Church, which obviously cannot conflict in any way.

The verse you reference does not refer to individual members of the Church, but to the Church itself, which is of divine origin and is sustained by divine guidance. Obviously individual members of the Church can choose against salvation for themselves. But the Church itself cannot choose to teach falsely, or to lead people anywhere other than to eternal salvation. the Holy Spirit will not allow it. Thus, while no person on earth can have absolute assurance of salvation, we can have absolute assurance of truth, and to the extent we respond to that truth in faith and Christian living until the end, we can receive salvation.

The Catholic Church does not teach that you can "lose" your salvation. The Catholic Church, like its early leaders the Apostles, and like its book the Bible, teaches that you do not HAVE your salvation until you have been faithful until your dying breath. You cannot "lose" what you do not have. But you can forfeit salvation, which means never receive it, if you fail to run the race to the finish.

-- Paul (, June 23, 2003.

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