Baptized Catholic divorced from non denominational marriage

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I have read all the post concerning annullments and validity on marriages but am still confused about the specifics concerning my case. I have been dating a Catholic man for the last year and he is everything I have prayed for. We are both baptized and confirmed Catholics. Here are his specifics. He was never married to his childrens mother but they did live together for a short time. He and his children are very involved with the Catholic church. Here are mine: I married a Lutherin man in a non-denominational church. We attended this church but not formally so to speak. Our first child was "dedicated" in a ceramony. ( they do not believe in Baptism until a child can make that committment thierselves later). By the second child he refused to attend any church services and 12 years later we divorced. Here a few details concerning my marriage and want to know if they would be relevent if we attempt to marry in a Catholic church. First is the fact we were married in a non denominational church. I had not attended Catholic Church in the 8 years prior to my marriage. I never denounced my Catholic religion nor did a convert to any other. Before the marriage I met with this "preacher" and told him I did not love my future husband and did not want to go through with it. He "counseled" me and told me I was just nervous and love was not a feeling but a commitment and since we had dated for 4 years he convinced me to go through with it. Towards the end of the marriage we were both drinking heavily and both unhappy and he was beginning to show signs of severe depression. I had a one time infidelity We tried to save the marriage by counseling. It did not work. During this time his depression became so severe he did not sleep and eventually turned abusive. After a few broken ribs and a concussion I went through with divorce. I wanted many times to go back to the church but was afraid being divorced I would not be accepted by the Catholic faith. I also felt very leary about going to any non denominational (christian) church becuase of the fly by nite preachers (the one who married me divorced his wife and joined a rock band within 5 years after performing my marriage). The entire church in fact split up a few years after that. I am deeply in love and want to marry my boyfriend some day. But he has already been upfront that he wants to marry but will not marry unless it can be done in a Catholic church. Please explain to me how or if these circumstances will effect us if we try to get my marriage annulled or invalidated and what steps we need to take to work on becomming man and wife in the Catholic church.

-- marie (texcess@aol.com), June 25, 2003

Answers

Marie,

First, the correction of common mis-belief. Merely being divorced does not cause one "not to be accepted" by the Church.

To your main question. Catholics are required by Canon Law to be married in the Catholic Church. Being married in another Church or by the civil government renders the marriage null.

You should contanct your local parish or the Diocesan Tribunal where you live about an annulment. You would be requesting it on the grounds of "Lack of Canonical Form." This should be a relatively simple, documentary process. They'll need a copy of your baptismal certificate and your marriage license among other things. It should not have to go through a full "trial." Once the church issues a finding of nullity (which they should if the facts you have related are accurate) you would be able to marry in the Catholic Church.

Hope that's helpful.

-- Fr. Mike Skrocki, JCL (abounammike@aol.com), June 26, 2003.


Fr. Mike,

Please explain to me, carefully if you will, how a marriage is null between two baptized Catholics who freely and knowingly marry outside the Church. It seems to me if their consent is valid, it is a marriage. This one is a real problem for me, which I have not spent alot of time mulling over. I do not see how not being married in the Catholic Church means a marriage does not exist, when a valid consent has been made. It seems illogical on natural grounds and therefore injust. I said this to show you where my concerns would, at least on first glance, lie. I thought the Church taught, as I have read what the Pope has said, that marriage has been a sacrament since man was created, before the Catholic Church existed and that a natural marriage was valid. I am stumped, deeply.

KArl

-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), June 26, 2003.


Karl,

The question of whether such a marriage is de facto valid becomes a moot point if the manner in which the ceremony was performed renders it impossible for the Church to be aware of such validity. Two nominal Catholics run off to East Oshkosh Bible Chapel and recite their vows before the minister/preacher/pastor/official/elder/custodian or whoever runs the place. Later the pastor of their Catholic parish is asked to verify their marital status. The only answer he can honestly provide is "I don't know; I wasn't there". When you were preparing for marriage, did the Church ask for your Baptismal and Confirmation certificates? If not, they were severely negligent. Such questions are too important to simply assume the answers. Documentation is necessary. The Church can document only that which it witnesses. That's one reason why we don't baptize our children at home. It is also the reason that canon law states ...

"Only those marriages are valid which are contracted in the presence of the local Ordinary or parish priest or of the priest or deacon delegated by either of them, who, in the presence of two witnesses, assists, in accordance however with the rules set out in the following canons ..." etc. etc.

The Church cannot in good conscience and in pastoral responsibility for the faithful, ASSUME that two Catholics are married when it has no certain means of knowing this to be true - just as the Church cannot ASSUME a person is baptized before officiating at their wedding. A marriage certificate from the Bible Chapel is not sufficient, for that merely indicates that the marriage is valid according to the criteria of validity of some unknown party, which has no relevance at all to genuine validity.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 26, 2003.


Jmj

Hello, Marie.
I felt very sad when I read your second message. You were very justified in complaining. You got an excellent, correct answer from Fr. Michael Skrocki (the first person who answered you). Please rely on what he told you. As he said, your first step should be this: "You should contact your local parish or the Diocesan Tribunal where you live about" a declaration of nullity.

Unfortunately, Marie, the forum happened to be visited today by a very troubled individual -- whom I believe to be a European immigrant named John [last name, I forgot]. When he first came to the forum, several months ago, he revealed some things about himself. But now, in a sick way, he pretends to be two or three people, all of whom "agree" that no one [not even a priest like Fr. S] is qualified to answer questions like yours in a public Internet forum. Please ignore this trouble-maker ["Joe Beard," "Kane Twist," "Werner Henry"].

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), June 26, 2003.


Paul, I do not understand then why

1) The Church presumes validity of the marriages when two baptized Christians of other denominations are married in another Christian Church.

2) It does not jive with a natural marriage the Pope spoke of as valid.

I really am at a quandry, not just being obstinate.

Karl

-- Karl (Parkerkajwen@hotmail.com), June 27, 2003.



The reason is simple: -The Church is a big institution, big because of the quantity of people like you with a lot of faith. But it still needs control of certain sitation as any human organization. -But you want to know why you need to be married in certain churches? That's simple. The church has a list of some churches that are not catholic, but it's marriage is valid(even some protestant churches). The reason: the way the marriage is performed. There are even some "so they say Catholic churches" that are knowned as valid. Same happens with Baptism

-- José Caso (jacasoj@hotmail.com), September 16, 2003.

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