Tribunal - Contacting Ex - Physically & Verbally Abusive

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Hello. I have a very serious question that I would like to ask regarding my current situation regarding a similar topic. I am a baptized Catholic, and my girlfriend is a non-catholic, muslim girl also previously married to a muslim guy. The previous marriage was arranged, and became abusive (physically and verbally). A civil divorce has been completed already. We are now attempting to get married in the Catholic Church. BTW - She is not converting her religion, but have agreed to raise our kids in the Catholic faith. We were surprised to be faced with this Tribunal Procedure, and I'm fully aware and accept their reasons for doing what they need to do. My questions is simply this... They want to contact her ex, which we believe will be disasterous, as most other religons do NOT have a requirement to contact ex relationships to ask their input or indicate what the other (my fiance's) intensions are. Because of this fact, we have not only had major problems in our own relationship (arguing why MY religon has to have these "unnecessary" rules), and also my family who are attemping to disown me if I get married in Civil court because we DO NOT want the Tribunal to contact her ex under any circumstances. We have talked to and already started the Tribunal process ($450 to start). Although we told them about his destructive past, they still do not back down. I am completely LOST for suggestions. I have been told many suggestions and comments and I would like to find out more facts about this.

#1. Can we write or contact a higher level of the Tribunal, or ask to have this procedure avoided?

#2. My parents are very old and TRADITIONAL, and do not fully understand what the Tribunal is trying to do.

#3. What if we "bend the truth" and just REFUSE to give them any contact information or simply DENY them this information? They will reject us, and I will end up getting married under Civil law, thus commiting MORTAL SIN according to some uptight Catholic views from some of my Catholic family members.

My situation is VERY critical. I am being told (basically), that I have NO choice but to notify a potentially DANGEROUS ex, which is above and beyond what is required under Civil law, and if I refuse, then there is a chance the Church will not allow us to get married in Church, in which case, I end up commiting Mortal Sin, which is equivalent to KILLING someone?

Please help me out, because I am a Catholic who is strongly considering why these rules are set out to destroy whatever I have believed for so long.

Who are the Catholic Tribunal trying to protect? Themselves or my Faith? What's funny, is that when I had an Interview with the Tribunal, the lady talking to me was using a top-of-the-line desktop PC with a Flat-screen monitor. It seems that the Tribunal has some serious issues with the way they spend the $1,000 they are charging me for this PROCESS!!

Please Note: On one discussion group, a similar question was posted, and the replies to this posting were completely unacceptable. Please do not reply and tell me, "Marry a Catholic", or that "I am commiting Adultry, because the Catholic Church considers my finance a 'married' woman". These comments are not necessary, and are best kept to yourself. Thank you.

-- Timmy Fernandes (timmy_fernandes@hotmail.com), July 16, 2003

Answers

I am basically looking for a way to answer Question #1. Is it a possibility, or is that defeating the entire purpose of the Tribunal? What upsets me, is that every web site in every state (USA) or province (CANADA) seems to have their own rules and regulations. I have even found one Tribunal Web Site admitting that there is no true "Standard" from each Tribunal and that the Church in Rome is still trying to standardize the process.

-- Timmy Fernandes (timmy_fernandes@hotmail.com), July 16, 2003.

Dear Tim,

The ex-husband of your intended is certainly not required to provide any sort of imput to the annulment procedings, and the progress of the procedings is in no way contingent upon his choice, either for or against participation. However, a marriage, even one which does not meet the criteria for validity, involves two people's lives, deeply and equally. How can you suppose that one individual could take steps to alter the official status of her relationship with another individual, without notifying the other individual of such action? Can a company have a contract with another company nullified in civil court, without notifying the other company? Such a move would be not only unethical, but illegal!

The only involvement her ex-husband would be offered is the filling out of the same questionnaire she filled out. Is there some information he might provide that you would rather the tribunal didn't know about? They will not provide him with any personal information about her. They will not reveal her address, phone number, or her intention to remarry. They work by the book. The book requires that both spouses have the opportunity to provide information. You of course are viewing the situation from a very personal viewpoint; but surely considering the broader picture, you would have to agree that such a provision is only reasonable and just.

You notice I have referred above to her "ex-husband". I almost never use that term in reference to annulment cases, because technically he is assumed to be her husband unless the tribunal can determine otherwise. However, canon law states that a marriage is not valid "which was entered into by reason of force imposed from outside, even if not purposely, from which the person has no escape other than by choosing marriage". Marriages "arranged" by someone other than the marrying couple, which the marrying couple are expected or required to submit to, almost invariably fall under this canon. Therefore, I fully expect that your annulment process will be brief and that the finding will be in your favor.

In what sense do you believe that contacting her "ex" will be "disastrous"? What can he do? He has no legal claim upon her, nor does she have any lagal obligation to him, since they are divorced. Is she in hiding from him, fearing violence? If so, his filling out the annulment papers, should he decide to do so, should not give him any sensitive information.

In the course of your message above, you went from "I am fully aware and accept their reasons for doing what they need to do" ... to asking ... "why these rules are set out to destroy whatever I have believed for so long".

You ask: "Who are the Catholic Tribunal trying to protect? Themselves or my Faith?" I'm sorry, I lost you here. What does the Tribunal stand to gain from finding her previous marriage invalid? What do they have to gain from finding it valid? It seems pretty clear that you are the only ones who stand to gain from the substantial efforts of the tribunal on your behalf. But asking them to declare invalid a binding agreement between two parties, one of whom is unnamed and unidentified, and to make that determination based solely on the testimony of one party, is simply not realistic, regardless of your reasons for wishing to avoid his possible involvement.

I will pray for you, that you will find peace in this temporary and unavoidable travail, and if it be God's will, joy and fulfillment for a lifetime.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 16, 2003.


I found a good document on the Process:

http://www.hbgdiocese.org/canonical/downloads/Understanding_Marriage_C ases.doc

-- Timmy Fernandes (timmy_fernandes@hotmail.com), July 17, 2003.


"But who know the truth. i just follow what god chose for me."

God is the the truth -to know God is to know truth... God would not chose a path of confusion and delusion for you -why do you continue on this path?

Daniel

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), July 17, 2003.


"Are telling me to leave catholicism because you feel that the choice I made and the choice she made is bad?"

ONLY choices YOU make effect eternal life.

I suggest you return to the Church ("catholicism").

-- Daniel Hawkenberry (dlm@catholic.org), July 17, 2003.



Timmy,

First off there are standard procedures for annulment cases. They are contained in the Code of Canon Law.

In contacting the "former" spouse of your fiancee the Tribunal is trying to get a complete picture of their marriage, what led up to it, and why it ended. The Tribunal does not have to, and should not, in a case such as this, provide him with the contact information for your fiancee. Remind them of this when you speak with them.

As someone else stated, whether he participates or not will not prevent the annulment from moving forward. However he does need to be heard. Withholding information from the process would deny him that opportunity to participate which is his right under canon law. This would render any decree of nullity issued - null and void itself.

On another note. One of the respondents stated that most "arranged" marriages would be considered null. That is not necessarily true. The simple fact of the marriage being arranged does not affect validity or nullity - if the person assented to that arrangement of their own free will. The Jurisprudence of the Roman Rota (one of the 2 Supreme Courts in the Church) bear this out.

Hope that's helpful.

-- Fr. Mike Skrocki, JCL (abounamike@aol.com), July 29, 2003.


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