The answer, of course, is NO! Sola scriptura was invented by Martin Luther.

"True knowledge is [that which consists in] the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place, and has come even unto us, being guarded and preserved without any forging of Scriptures, by a very complete system of doctrine, and neither receiving addition nor [suffering] curtailment [in the truths which she believes]; and [it consists in] reading [the word of God] without falsification, and a lawful and diligent exposition in harmony with the Scriptures, both without danger and without blasphemy; and [above all, it consists in] the pre-eminent gift of love, which is more precious than knowledge, more glorious than prophecy, and which excels all the other gifts [of God]." Irenaeus,Against Heresies,4,33:8 (inter A.D. 180-199),in ANF,I:508

"But if there be any (heresies) which are bold enough to plant themselves in the midst of the apostolic age, that they may thereby seem to have been handed down by the apostles, because they existed in the time of the apostles, we can say: Let them produce the original records of their churches; let them unfold the roll of their bishops, running down in due succession from the beginning in such a manner that [that first bishop of theirs] bishop shall be able to show for his ordainer and predecessor some one of the apostles or of apostolic men, ùa man, moreover, who continued stedfast with the apostles. For this is the manner in which the apostolic churches transmit their registers: as the church of Smyrna, which records that Polycarp was placed therein by John; as also the church of Rome, which makes Clement to have been ordained in like manner by Peter. In exactly the same way the other churches likewise exhibit (their several worthies), whom, as having been appointed to their episcopal places by apostles, they regard as transmitters of the apostolic seed. Let the heretics contrive something of the same kind. For after their blasphemy, what is there that is unlawful for them (to attempt)? But should they even effect the contrivance, they will not advance a step. For their very doctrine, after comparison with that of the apostles, will declare, by its own diversity and contrariety, that it had for its author neither an apostle nor an apostolic man; because, as the apostles would never have taught things which were self-contradictory, so the apostolic men would not have inculcated teaching different from the apostles, unless they who received their instruction from the apostles went and preached in a contrary manner. To this test, therefore will they be submitted for proof by those churches, who, although they derive not their founder from apostles or apostolic men (as being of much later date, for they are in fact being founded daily), yet, since they agree in the same faith, they are accounted as not less apostolic because they are akin in doctrine. Then let all the heresies, when challenged to these two tests by our apostolic church, offer their proof of how they deem themselves to be apostolic. But in truth they neither are so, nor are they able to prove themselves to be what they are not. Nor are they admitted to peaceful relations and communion by such churches as are in any way connected with apostles, inasmuch as they are in no sense themselves apostolic because of their diversity as to the mysteries of the faith." Tertullian,On Prescription against the Heretics,32 (c.A.D. 200),in ANF,III:258

"For those are slothful who, having it in their power to provide themselves with proper proofs for the divine Scriptures from the Scriptures themselves, select only what contributes to their own pleasures. And those have a craving for glory who voluntarily evade, by arguments of a diverse sort, the things delivered by the blessed apostles and teachers, which are wedded to inspired words; opposing the divine tradition by human teachings, in order to establish the heresy." Clement of Alexandria,Stromata,7:16 (post A.D. 202),in ANF,II:553-554

"When heretics show us the canonical Scriptures, in which every Christian believes and trusts, they seem to be saying:'Lo, he is in the inner rooms [ie., the word of truth] ' (Matt 24.6). But we must not believe them, nor leave the original tradition of the Church, nor believe otherwise than we have been taught by the succession in the Church of God." Origen,Homilies on Matthew,Homily 46,PG 13:1667 (ante A.D. 254),in CON,392

"For the method of godliness consists of these two things, pious doctrines, and virtuous practice: and neither are the doctrines acceptable to God apart from good works, nor does God accept the works which are not perfected with pious doctrines. For what profit is it, to know well the doctrines concerning God, and yet to be a vile fornicator? And again, what profit is it, to be nobly temperate, and an impious blasphemer? A most precious possession therefore is the knowledge of doctrines: also there is need of a wakeful soul, since there are many that make spoil through philosophy and vain deceit. The Greeks on the one hand draw men away by their smooth tongue, for honey droppeth from a harlot's lips: whereas they of the Circumcision deceive those who come to them by means of the Divine Scriptures, which they miserably misinterpret though studying them from childhood to all age, and growing old in ignorance. But the children of heretics, by their good words and smooth tongue, deceive the hearts of the innocent, disguising with the name of Christ as it were with honey the poisoned arrows of their impious doctrines: concerning all of whom together the Lord saith, Take heed lest any man mislead you. This is the reason for the teaching of the Creed and for expositions upon it." Cyril of Jerusalem,Catechetical Lectures,4:2 (A.D. 350),in NPNF2,VII:19

"And, O wretched heretic! you turn the weapons granted to the Church against the Synagogue, against belief in the Church's preaching, and distort against the common salvation of all the sure meaning of a saving doctrine." Hilary of Poitiers,On the Trinity,12:36 (inter A.D. 356-359),in NPNF2,IX:227

"But since they allege the divine oracles and force on them a misinterpretation, according to their private sense, it becomes necessary to meet them just so far as to vindicate these passages, and to shew that they bear an orthodox sense, and that our opponents are in error." Athanasius,Discourse Against the Arians,I:37(A.D. 362),in NPNF2,IV:327-328

"To refuse to follow the Fathers, not holding their declaration of more authority than one's own opinion, is conduct worthy of blame, as being brimful of self-sufficiency." Basil,EpistleTo the Canonicae,52:1 (A.D. 370),in NPNF2,VIII:155

"While (the sects) mutually refute and condemn each other, it has happened to truth as to Gideon; that is, while they fight against each other, and fall under wounds mutually inflicted, they crown her. All the heretics acknowledge that there is a true Scripture. Had they all falsely believed that none existed, some one might reply that such Scripture was unknown to them. But now that have themselves taken away the force of such plea, from the fact that they have mutilated the very Scriptures. For they have corrupted the sacred copies; and words which ought to have but one interpretation, they have wrested to strange significations. Whilst, when one of them attempts this, and cuts off a member of his own body, the rest demand and claim back the severed limb....It is the church which perfect truth perfects. The church of believers is great, and its bosom most ample; it embraces the fulness (or, the whole) of the two Testaments." Ephraem,Adv. Haeres. (ante A.D. 373),in FOC,I:377-378

"Who knows not that what separates the Church from heresy is this term, 'product of creation, ' applied to the Son? Accordingly, the doctrinal difference being universally acknowledged, what would be the reasonable course for a man to take who endeavors to show that his opinions are more true than ours?" Gregory of Nyssa,Against Eunomius,4:6 (inter A.D. 380-384),in NPNF2,V:162

"For heresies, and certain tenets of perversity, ensnaring souls and hurling them into the deep, have not sprung up except when good Scriptures are not rightly understood, and when that in them which is not rightly understood is rashly and boldly asserted. And so, dearly beloved, ought we very cautiously to hear those things for the understanding of which we are but little ones, and that, too, with pious heart and with trembling, as it is written, holding this rule of soundness, that we rejoice as in food in that which we have been able to understand, according to the faith with which we are imbued;" Augustine,On the Gospel of John,Homily XVIII:1 (A.D. 416 et 417),NPNFI,VII:117

"If you produce from the divine scriptures something that we all share, we shall have to listen. But those words which are not found in the scriptures are under no circumstance accepted by us, especially since the Lord warns us, saying, In vain they worship me, teaching human commandments and precepts'(Mt 5:19) " Maximinus(Arch-Arian Heretic),Debate with Maximinus,1 (c.A.D. 428),in AAOH,188

"Therefore, as I said above, if you had been a follower and assertor of Sabellianism or Arianism or any heresy you please, you might shelter yourself under the example of your parents, the teaching of your instructors, the company of those about you, the faith of your creed. I ask, O you heretic, nothing unfair, and nothing hard. As you have been brought up in the Catholic faith, do that which you would do for a wrong belief. Hold fast to the teaching of your parents. Hold fast the faith of the Church: hold fast the truth of the Creed: hold fast the salvation of baptism." Cassian,John,Incarnation of the Lord,6:5 (c.A.D. 429/430),in NPNF2,XI:593-594

"I have often then inquired earnestly and attentively of very many men eminent for sanctity and learning, how and by what sure and so to speak universal rule I may be able to distinguish the truth of Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical pravity; and I have always, and in almost every instance, received an answer to this effect: That whether I or any one else should wish to detect the frauds and avoid the snares of heretics as they rise, and to continue sound and complete in the Catholic faith, we must, the Lord helping, fortify our own belief in two ways; first, by the authority of the Divine Law, and then, by the Tradition of the Catholic Church." Vincent of Lerins,Commonitory,2:4 (c.A.D. 434),in NPNF2,XI:132

"But the Church of Christ, the careful and watchful guardian of the doctrines deposited in her charge, never changes anything in them, never diminishes, never adds, does not cut off what is necessary, does not add what is superfluous, does not lose her own, does not appropriate what is another's, but while dealing faithfully and judiciously with ancient doctrine, keeps this one object carefully in view,ùif there be anything which antiquity has left shapeless and rudimentary, to fashion and polish it, if anything already reduced to shape and developed, to consolidate and strengthen it, if any already ratified and defined to keep and guard it. Finally, what other object have Councils ever aimed at in their decrees, than to provide that what was before believed in simplicity should in future be believed intelligently, that what was before preached coldly should in future be preached earnestly, that what was before practised negligently should thenceforward be practised with double solicitude ? This, I say, is what the Catholic Church, roused by the novelties of heretics, has accomplished by the decrees of her Councils,ùthis, and nothing else,ùshe has thenceforward consigned to posterity in writing what she had received from those of olden times only by tradition, comprising a great amount of matter in a few words, and often, for the better understanding, designating an old article of the faith by the characteristic of a new name." Vincent of Lerins,Commonitory,23:59 (c.A.D. 434),in NPNF2,XI:148-149

"[A]ll heresies, that they evermore delight in profane novelties, scorn the decisions of antiquity, and ...make shipwreck of the faith. On the other hand, it is the sure characteristic of Catholics to keep that which has been committed to their trust by the holy Fathers...." Vincent of Lerins,Commonitory,24:63 (c.A.D. 434),in NPNF2,XI:150

"His (Nestorius) first attempt at innovation was, that the holy Virgin, who bore the Word of God, who took flesh of her, ought not to be confessed to be the mother of God, but only the mother of Christ; though of old, yea from the first, the preachers of the orthodox faith taught, agreeably to the apostolic tradition, that the mother of God. And now let me produce his blasphemous artifice and observation unknown to any one before him." Theodoret of Cyrus,Compendium of Heretics' Fables,12 (c.A.D. 453),in FOC,I:449

Sola scriptura is not only completely unbiblical but was UNHEARD OF BEFORE THE REFORMATION. Those brazen "inventors of the wheel as they go," not only depleted the Holy Word of God by six books, but invited the biggest heresy of all -- SOLA SCRIPTURA!!

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), August 05, 2003

Answers

"Sola scriptura is not only completely unbiblical but was UNHEARD OF BEFORE THE REFORMATION"

Yea, it wasn't heard of till the reformation because the Catholic church burned true Christians at the stake, along with bibles. They Only keep their bibles in Latin so people couldn't read them. Well no, it was heard of because that's Exactly what Jesus did when Satan tempted him.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2003.

David,

This was a thread that Gail resurrected from the Catholic forum. Once again she quotes "fallible men" instead of an "infallible God"...

Who can believe it???

Catholics claim to love the Bible, except of course when you question them on their doctrines then they state that you believe in "Sola Scriptura". In other words, one CANNOT have a private interpretation of the Scriptures to work out their own salvation. They have to be dependent on someone else to tell them what to believe... Simply amazing!!! Talk about not wanting to take responsibility for thier own actions!!!

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), August 07, 2003.

I explained about how they misuse that private interpetation verse on the Thread "Misused Verses"

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2003.

"They Only keep their bibles in Latin so people couldn't read them. "

Actually, latin was the educated man's language of the times. The reason the Bible was read by the church was because the people who they read to were illiterate. If you have noticed, latin is still in use today by the science world.

verus, fidelis

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2003.

People, you can reject or claim the Catholic Church is wrong or misguided or whatever, but don't go spilling out false acusations or indictments without hard evidence to support those opinions. Get your facts straight. Hey, the Church of England suffered with the problem of illiteracy even with their clergy. The clergy did not even know their basic doctrine. More reason for the Catholic Church to read to their people the Scriptures. The Church didn't want another problem of misinterpretation like Luther's doings.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2003.

rod,

Please explain your statement, "People, you can reject or claim the Catholic Church is wrong or misguided or whatever, spilling out false acusations or indictments without hard evidence to support those opinions."? In other words, what false accusation or indictment are you speaking of?

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), August 08, 2003.

rod, what false acusations? None hear. Martin Luther got Sola Scriptura right, that article Gail posted is a false acusation. Sola Scriptura Unheard of before the reformation? After we are given examples in the bible to Search the Scriptures, and Not Once 'sacred tradition'. We are not the first people that have made 'attacks' on the Catholic church. Being sincere is not going to cut it. You can be sincerely wrong! We have the Bible to support our claims.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 08, 2003.

"We have the Bible to support our claims."

AMEN!!!

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), August 08, 2003.

"The Whore of Revelations"...sound familiar?

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 08, 2003.

rod,

I did not make that claim.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), August 08, 2003.

Well, you're sort of right, Kevin. Sola scriptura was not "unheard" of but CONDEMNED! Why? Because the Church knew what sort of discord it would lead to . . . and they were right. You and David can agree on very little and yet you both think you're right.

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), August 08, 2003.

Kevin, I just noticed something. Your argument against Faith alone is the exact same one a catholic gives against sola scriptura. Both say "Show me one verse where is says alone".

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 10, 2003.

Actually, David, it's a little bit more than that. In the instance of "faith alone," there is a scripture that says precisely the opposite, i.e., that we are NOT saved by faith alone. (You know the one).

Same thing is true for sola scriptura. Scripture ITSELF squarely contradicts sola scriptura by stating "The Church is the foundation and pillar of the truth."

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), August 10, 2003.

Gail,

Your "Sola Scriptura" argument is FALSE because of these statements in 2 Tim 3:16-17, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Since this is the case, then NOTHING else is needed nor required.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), August 11, 2003.

Gail wrote, "Same thing is true for sola scriptura. Scripture ITSELF squarely contradicts sola scriptura by stating "The Church is the foundation and pillar of the truth."

Actually, the word of God says, but if I am delayed, I write so that you may know how you ought to conduct yourself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth." (1 Tim 3:15). Christ is the foundation, NOT the church. (See 1 Cor 3:11).

God said in Revelation 3:12, "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name."

The church can only procalim the truth, not legislate truth. The new name is the name "Christian". There is no such thing as a Catholic- Christian etc...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), August 11, 2003.

Of course scripture equips us for every good work. I never said it doesn't. But Christ still instituted an authoritative Church to implement and instruct FROM scripture, to discipline and correct. After all, the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), August 12, 2003.

The problem is not with the ‘Bible alone’; the problem is with our human heart that is full of sin. We are not immune to error.

Scripture claims to be inspired, but nowhere do you find that Sacred Tradition claims to be inspired. "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works" (2 Timothy 3:15-17).

History proves to us that the Catholic Church is fallible in its teachings. We see flip-flops on certain doctrines. Either the Roman Catholic Church is wrong now, or was wrong then.

We see popes that clearly were not of God, or the ‘representative of Christ on earth’. They send thousands to there death. People were tortured and burned at the stake as heretics.

The bible is clear and understandable. We do not need an 'infallible' magisterium to guide us. We are to be Bereans and search the scriptures.

God Bless

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 17, 2003.