Is birth control Biblical? It is interesting that not ONE Protestant Church accepted birth control as Biblical until the 1930's, and now they have succumbed to the temptation of this present world, and chosen to take "life" into their own hands.**

So, can anyone give me a scripture that would seem to suggest that birth control is an acceptable practice?

Gail

** Of course, I can't be sure that ALL Protestant denominations uphold birth control, because there are so very many teachings out there, but I think it's safe to say that for the most part manmade birth control is quite acceptable in most Christian circles.

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), August 05, 2003

Answers

How do you work that one out davy boy? how is preventing the release of an unfertilized egg from the ovarys destroying life? And as for condoms, preventing life lol, is being fat and ugly also unbiblical? You must really live in another world. To you Gail, are computers biblical? are cars? how about dying your hair? open heart surgury? artificial pesticides? breast implants? oh wait, self mutilation, yep thats in there but i think your supposed to cut bits off rather than adding them.

-- the mysterious miss Alice (bopper@meecrab.org), August 06, 2003.

Wow, Alice, I don't consider "dying my hair," "cars" "open heart surgery" or any of the other things you mentioned on the same level as "preventing LIFE." But your attitude is certainly atypical of the general attitude within our society -- the glory of life means nothing! And so we kill babies in the womb, why we even drag three quarters of their bodies outside the womb, pierce the baby's skull with scissors and suck it's brains out. Unthinkable! And yet to folks like you, it's kinda like getting a hangnail removed.

David, I wonder if churches will see their error, and return to a Biblical understanding of conception and life. I think we are starting to see signs of that. Recently a book was written "A Protestant Couple Rethinks Birth Control." Apparently, there is also some evidence that artificial birth control, i.e., the pill, actually aborts the baby at conception. Life is so awesome and so precious; we must handle it with care.

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), August 06, 2003.

Excuse me when did I say that I was in favour of late term abortions? try reading my post properly before spouting on about sucking brains out. And what's this nonsense about the pill aborting pregnancy? Don’t believe everything that people tell you. The pill works by preventing the release of a hormone called oestrogen, during a women’s monthly cycle plasma oestrogen levels peak stimulating ovulation. This results in one or more unfertilized eggs being released from the ovaries. Thus preventing the release of oestrogen prevents ovulation hence pregnancy, there are no eggs available to be fertilized so its IMPOSSIBLE that the baby is aborted at conception.

And one more thing I assume by atypical you mean typical, that life meaning nothing is typical well let me ask you this what do you do for a living besides listening to cock and bull stories about birth control? Life means everything to me I have dedicated my life to preserving it, how dare you judge me just because I have a different opinion on birth control?

-- the mysterious miss Alice (bopper@meecrab.org), August 06, 2003.

Thanks. Yes I did mean "typical" not atypical.

The prevention of life during the act of sex is prohibited by the Bible because it is "GOD who opens and closes the womb." Man takes the option of life out of the hands of God by first, the use of artificial contraception, and secondly by the abortion of the conceptus, which of course is a very grave matter.

You say you have dedicated your life to the preservation of life, and yet you liken the prevention of life to such mundane issues as the dying of ones hair.

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), August 06, 2003.

That is incorrect, I did no such thing. Those were analogies, I was giving you familiar examples of acts that are not in scripture yet generally accepted as being ok.

We are born nude are we going against the will of god by wearing clothes? How about modern medicine, I broke my leg when I was 7 should my parents have let nature take its course and let me suffer from possible blood poisoning or death and certainly resigned me to being a cripple for the rest of my life? Or are you one of those nutcases that let their children die because they don’t want them to have a blood transfusion? What I’m saying is that nature’s way isn’t always best. People will always have sex, that’s a given, some people (and I count myself amonst that number) are not ready or not fit to bring up a child and so should be given the option to avoid pregnancy. I would much rather go to hell for using contraception than for not loving or taking care of my baby.

-- the mysterious miss Alice (bopper@meecrab.org), August 06, 2003.

Hi "the mysterious miss Alice"

I take it that you have either no understanding of God's teachings or you have rejected His teachings. Also, based on the comments you've made so far, the medicine and doctors are given to us by God, as the Book of Sirach reveals. Also, you are using emotionalism to make a point rather than evidence. You are using secularism or humanism as your foundation. If you wish to live by those, fine. But, "the mysterious miss Alice" please don't go settling for "hell" as any trade off for the temporary earthly deeds you do, whether you feel that it is right or wrong.

It is very obvious that you have put yourself in the defensive rather quickly by the tone of your response.

I really on doctors and prayers, because God gives us these.

rod..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 06, 2003.

Oh and another thing nobody opens my womb without asking first, I dont care if you are the creator of all things. Its a good job god doesnt go round opening other things as well it would turn a fun day at the zoo into bloody mayhem. But hey maybe it was god who took the top off my jam jar yesturday I just know I put it back on. And that Jesus he's just as bad, going round heeling the sick, I dont know about you but when i'm ill the last thing I would want is some beardy weirdy kicking me with his heel.

-- the mysterious miss Alice (bopper@meecrab.org), August 06, 2003.

Ah! I see who we are dealing with here. I will not converse with you again, until you lose that tone. I are being disrespectful to God. I will not be part of that.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 06, 2003.

the mysterious miss Alice,

"Or are you one of those nutcases that let their children die because they don’t want them to have a blood transfusion? "

I believe those are Jehovah Witnesses.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2003.

the mysterious miss Alice,

Are you an atheist?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2003.

No im not an athiest Our existence on this planet stems not from macroevolution but from a heroic battle the god Marduk fought against the weak-willed goddess Tiamat.

We are told to remember the names of Marduk, for rulers will recite them, wise men and sages debate them, father to son repeat them, even shepherds and herdsmen shall hear them. Men shall rejoice in Marduk. He is the he prince of the gods. Man and earth will prosper, for his rule is strong, his command is firm. Praise be, Marduk!

-- the mysterious miss Alice (bopper@meecrab.org), August 07, 2003.

Evidently, our mystery lady has associated her faith with a "bull calf". One of the many pre-Christian religions/theologies that stem from sun worship--"Ra", anyone?

Ma rduk

"Marduk, appointed as the celestial champion, slew Tiamat, fastened the tablets of destiny on his own breast, and created a new world order that included humankind."

Very interesting to read.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2003.

Very creepy too!!

Gail

P.S. One of the mystery religions that will help to usher in the Anti-Christ no doubt!! Notice Alice's mockery of Christ.

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), August 07, 2003.

If one is to base their beliefs in an ancient religion, why not go to the point of its beginnings?

"Ra" is the name given by the Hyksos. It is thought that the sun, which gives life to all things, sent its seed down to man, again, but in a more tangible form, a meteorite. They built their temples in a fashion that allows the light to enter the womb and bring forth life. That seed has a name "Benben". It is believed that a 6 ton rock, the seed is the secret rock found in Mecca. There is a ton of information along this idea, but this is a Christian forum and I shouldn't saturate it with primitive theology.

rod..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2003.

Ever wondered about the origin of the name "Raamemeses" or "Ramesses"?

The Pharaohs actually believed they were sun gods. "Ra" is the name of the sun god.

Some go as far as to claim that our Christian religion is based on that very sun religion.

Ok, I need to say this:

Those pyramids in Egypt are evidence of sun worship. My thinking is that those Pharaohs entombed there were after eternal life. Some think that their souls were aimed up to the heavens. I think it was the other way around. The sun's light, giver of life, was to enter the pyramid and present its seed to the entombed Pharaoh. This would bring the Pharaoh back to life; it didn't work, did it!?

"Pyramid", fire in the middle, light in the middle. I think these pyramids are not just awsome triangular prisms. I think that they represent the womb, both symbolically and literally. Many of the temples of ancient times have what is called the Holy of Holies. There is a small room in the temple that only allow for the high priest to enter. The secrets of this room contains astrological information, of course. These early people required this knowledge for agriculture and survival. They took it farther and it became their religion. Anyway, there are several chambers surrounding this Holy of Holies, but there is a stream of light that enters from the outside into the secret room, the seed enters the womb.

I will not tell you the symbolic meaning of the obilisk or towering column with the bulbous tops erected into the heavens.

How does this play into the Christian theme? Have you heard the words "The Son of Light" or "No one can see God and live" . The constellations were a major part of the sun religion. Aries, Taurus, and Pisces were constellations that determine a change in the religious society. The Bible makes references to "sheep", "cattle", and "fishers of men". Jesus is called the "lamb" and the Apostles were called "fishers of Men". The idea was to identify the major political and religious affiliations of the time. Arian and Taurian sects in a changing world to Piscies.

Well, all of this information is out there. If this belief takes a grip on people, this may very well be the thing to fear--not the Catholic

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2003.

But, who in their right mind ever believe in any of this stuff?

Well, let me ask "the mysterious miss Alice"...

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2003.

Oh lighten up Gail, it was a play on words, people without a sense of humor are living in hell already. Oh and Marduk, what makes him any less believable than a talking donkey?

-- the mysterious miss Alice (bopper@meecrab.org), August 08, 2003.

Gail, what is this Anti-Christ you are talking about?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 08, 2003.

the mysterious miss Alice,

Yes a sense a humor is a good thing.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 08, 2003.

Did any of you actually answer the question at hand? NO

-- Krista (j@2.com), September 09, 2003.

The answer is NO. There is no biblical support for birth control WHATSOEVER!!

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 09, 2003.

Gail says,

The answer is NO. There is no biblical support for birth control WHATSOEVER!!

There is also nothing in the Bible that states that one cannot use birth control. Please check out the web site below:

Are Contraception and Abortion Siamese Twins?

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), September 09, 2003.

Certainly Birth control is better than Abortion, least your not killing an innocent life.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), September 09, 2003.

How many children may a married couple have? How many is too many? If we were to live strictly by the word of God, wouldn't the number of children we have be determined by the pure and natural law of God?

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 09, 2003.

Q: How many children may a married couple have?

A: As many as they desire.

Q: How many is too many?

A: This depends on the couples view of how many is too many.

Q: If we were to live strictly by the word of God, wouldn't the number of children we have be determined by the pure and natural law of God?

A: The word of God does not specify how many children a family is allowed to have, so that decision is left up to them to determine how many children they want to bring into this world.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), September 10, 2003.

The Bible says somewhere, "It is God who opens and closes the womb." That is pretty succinct. Sorry I don't have time to look up the reference . . . dinner is cookin'.

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), September 10, 2003.

Well, that's the major problem. How can a couple determine the number, unless they allow their finances determine it for them?

So, I'm thinking that it really isn't up to the couple. If God decides to give a couple children, the couple will conceive. We simply have to know that conception is always the possibility.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 10, 2003.

I'm looking at this issue from a different angle. There have been times when we wanted to have children, but conception was just not happening. We prayed. It wasn't until God allowed it. This is the only way I can see things when it comes to conception--God has a time table for each couple.

rod..

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 10, 2003.

Gail wrote, "The Bible says somewhere, "It is God who opens and closes the womb." That is pretty succinct. Sorry I don't have time to look up the reference . . . dinner is cookin'."

Okay, just because God says somewhete that He opens and closes the womb really does not make any difference whether or not one can or cannot use birth control. That is pretty succinct. God does not mention whether or not we can use birth control, and has left this decision up to us to decide as we see fit.

rod wrote, "Well, that's the major problem. How can a couple determine the number, unless they allow their finances determine it for them?

That is the problem isn't it rod??? Couples do NOT allow their finances to determine it for them, they do NOT even think most of the time prior to the woman getting pregnant.

rod wrote, "So, I'm thinking that it really isn't up to the couple. If God decides to give a couple children, the couple will conceive. We simply have to know that conception is always the possibility."

It is up to the couple, for they can decide whether to use, or not to use protection that will not result in children.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), September 11, 2003.

So many things have been said, it's hard to remember everything I wanted to comment on. The references in the OT about God opening and closing the womb...Gen 29:31-33; 30:1-2,6,17-18, 20, 22, 23. I Samuel 1:6, 11, 19, 20.

Ultimately God knows who will be born to whom and when. The above are just 2 examples of God's involvement in conception.

I believe it was Gail who had said that she believes dying your hair, computers, and whatever else were not against the bible. And I think she also said something about Doctors being from God. If God has given us the knowledge and wisdom to practice medicine; to fix bones, heal the sick, treat cancer, why not use birth control? (Just a thought)

Again, to comment on what the mysterious alice and Gail were saying...There are different levels of birth control; the higher doses will not allow conception to take place. A friend of mine (a RN) said that lower doses do run the risk of not preventing conception, but actually terminating the now fertilized egg.

Since the Bible really doesn't tell to use or not to use birth control, I believe it becomes a matter of conviction. So now, with everything said, if you feel it's excercising less faith to use BC, then don't. If you don't have money, but become pregnant, just trust that God will provide. On the other hand, if you know that you're not in a position to raise a baby, let alone support one, and you don't feel guilty or whatever, go ahead and use birth control.

-- Alaina W. (joalaielna@hotmail.com), October 07, 2003.

Rod, you were talking above, about ancient cultures and the constellations. I don't know how much you've really studied the Bible, so you may already know this...

When Christ was called the "lamb" it refers back to the OT when the Israelites lived under the law. When they "confessed" their sin, they had to make a sacrifice, which was usually a lamb. This lamb had to perfect/without blemish. It's sacrifice, and blood on the alter were a covering for the sins of the person who had brought the lamb to the Temple. Christ was the Son of God - He was truly God and truly man in one body. He was "without blemish" He never once sinned. Because he had lived a perfect life, he was able to sacrifice it for our sake. His death wipes away our sin; it doesn't just cover it up. Therefore, if we believe that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again on the third day, we are given eternal life in Heaven.

In Mark 1:16-20 and Matthew 4:18-22 and Luke 5:1-11 we see Jesus telling Peter that He will make them "fishers of men." He uses this term because Peter was a fisherman and would have a better picture of what Christ was saying. He was calling them to come preach him word to the world. "catching men" was refering to evangelization and those that would come to know Christ and His work on the cross.

I don't want to sound rude by disagreeing with you, but the above two examples have nothing to do with constellations. (Maybe I misunderstood you and this wasn't what you meant.)

-- Alaina W. (joalaielna@hotmail.com), October 07, 2003.

Am I to believe that there isn't a correct or incorrect answer to this question? I thought that God was definate in His teachings. It seems that once again, man is confused and cannot submit to God's will. It should be clear that we are to be "fruitful and multiply". This quote may mean to have children and to spread the Gospel (this interpretation for some). God also teaches about living a moral life; this may include celebacy until marriage, yes? If the only birth control that may be acceptable, celebacy until marriage is that one. I've noticed that impoverished people have children. Since when has money deteremined whom should have children and whom should not? Third world countries should not? One of the prerequisites for Mary and Joseph was their wealth? I don't think so. Human life does not and should not have a price tag. If God wills it, we should have babies. Funny things can happen; priorities change and families endure. The impossible becomes possible. Sometimes a couple may grow too old to have children and look back to regret what they could have had today, with or without money. I was born into a poor couple's loving arms. I played in the dust outside of my three room house that previously kept my father's brothers and sisters, a family of nine. Why such a large family? My grandparents were true Catholics. A life is worth more than a nickle.<

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 07, 2003.

Hi Alaina. The previous post about the "constellations" was in contrast to my Christian beliefs. I was merely pointing out to the "sun worshipper" about the origins of her own beliefs. Yes, the post is about a heretical theology. The Christian accounts are twisted by authors who make money writing such non-sense. Their writings may sound convincing because no one can actually disprove their heresy with actual proof, there isn't any. The Bible is the only proof, but those wolves are good at their craftiness. Rest assure, I don't believe their twisted accounts.

rod..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 07, 2003.