How can masturbation subjectivly be judged a venial sin ?

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I have some questions regarding masturbation and mortal sin.I am 16 and A couple years ago I started to masturbate aware that it was probably wrong but not knowing it was a sin. I have used it as a false-feel good to satisfy lonliness because I am shy and don't have any close friends, when of course this does not work for that. Well eventaully I continued to research the topic and came to an understanding that it truly against God, but now trapped in a rut of rationalization and habit, I knew I would have a dificult time stopping. I became aware that certain thought patterns led to acting out. In the last 8 months my desire and love for God has increased incredibly, and I am a solid catholic seeking the truth at this moment. I have confessed this sin twice at confession. But since my last confession I have masturbated twice. I'm trying so hard to break the habit, by trying to grow in my love of God, but in doing this I came to a -more full than before- agreement that masturbation objectively is a mortal sin. Subjectivly in these previous 2 instances how can I know if its a mortal sin?. I probably won't go to confession for about a month, and it causes great despair to think that I may have possibly destroyed the spirit of God inside of me, and am therefore unable to pray, and of very little value to God until I go to confession to be reconciled. I have certainly repented of the sin, and even at the time of commiting it I felt as if it was completly against my will and I had no control because of the habit I was screaming at myself to stop but yet I didn't. should I still recieve the Eucharist in this situation also? I am just very confused because I never wanted to make a complete turn around from God, when my habit tempted me. I Feel seperated from God and am unsure of how to continue in faith...somehow to me it seems contradictory that as one grows in observance of sin and holiness and one becomes aware of things that could be considered mortal sin, these sins which when first discovered could take years to stop because of our weak flesh- then makes an extremely dificult time in maintaining life and not death caused by mortal sin. to me it seems dificult that as knowledge increases so will sin and the dificulty and dealing with the guilt.

-- Matt (slywakka250@yahoo.com), August 16, 2003

Answers

Hello!

My first impression is that you seem blessedly self-aware in a way that most people your age are simply incapable of. Feel confident, at least, that God is at work inside you.

You're not the first young person to ask this question here, and you won't be the last. Much older Catholic men I know can't imagine ever masturbating. They were taught that it was a mortal sin, that it placed their immortal souls in jeopardy, and so they "didn't do it".

For "our" generation, however, it's as common as the cold (albeit unfortunately no less deadly). Sin plagues us and seperates us from God; it ruins us, but is always an opportunity to turn to Him and find happy reunion.

Tranquilo, mi amigo--you're on the path to recovery. I advise you to speak with your priest and ask for Spiritual Direction with him or with anyone you can trust. If he is too busy, he can find someone to help you. Meet with him weekly and go to Confession each time, whether you've masturbated or not.

Regarding the Eucharist, I have been told different things by different priests. This does not mean one priest was wrong--it means that your subjective guilt will always be a confusing and distressing question.

During the school year, I am priviledged with a confessor who is constantly available. I struggle with the same problem, true, but it is subdued for the time being (usually gets worse during the Spring, hmph).

In your case, if you masturbate, do what you can to see your confessor before the next Mass. If you can't see him, make an Act of Contrition, and take the Eucharist, knowing you will make Confession soon.

These are not magic miracle cures, friend--it's a happy lifestyle I'm proposing to you. Foster your friendship with God, find comfort in his cross, and learn to love your Spiritual Mother. In time, you will find a peace which I can't even describe to you. Be comforted: you will not be a slave to your flesh forever.

And lest I forget: Oh yeah, and do everything to avoid sin.

P.S.- May I ask the Moderator to blink out the poster's name and E- mail? I've made that mistake before, and when it comes to this topic it's always best discussed anonymously.

-- anonymous (just.trying@to.help), August 17, 2003.


Hello ... I am a christian doctor living in Syria/Middle East. I have intended to quit masturbation. I know that it is a difficult objective, altough not a impossible one. Therefore, I would like to start a thread for all christians who would like to share their ideas and experience regarding this issue. I hope that this will give help for all of us who want to get rid of this bad habit.

Please, post all your comments and ideas.MAY GOD BLESS YOU ALL.

-- MMM (directorgroup@hotmail.com), August 18, 2003.


Try avoiding the environment (bedroom, bathroom, shower, etc.) as much as possible. Humans tend to associate feelings, etc. with places / smells / sounds. It may make it easier to avoid the sin altogether if you avoid the place where you sin. Believe it or not, these might be ocassions of sin.

-- Jake Huether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), August 20, 2003.

Thanks for the contribution.Any one can share us his experience of quitting ? Thanks in advance.

-- MMM (Directorgroup@hotmail.com), August 20, 2003.

Hey, I was just cruising the Internet and found this forum. One link on the subject you can go to is, http://couragerc.net/PIPMasturbation.html

A lot of times this habit stems from more than just lust. It is a way of coping with lonliness, rejection and other emotions. Nevertheless it is self-destructive and doesn't solve any problems, it only creates more. It is important to know what pressures help push you towards this, so you can counter-act them.

Anyways, there are a few basic things. Of course pray. Always go to God.

Fasting or some kind of penance is good. Constantly giving in to your passions creates a weakness in your will. So to strengthen your will you should cut back on legitimate pleasures, nice hot showers or salt or whatever. When you are able to deny your body what it wants legitimately, when it urges you to masterbate, you will be more able to say no.

You must control your thoughts. MUST, MUST, MUST. A good way to do this is to memorize Scripture. You shouldn't not just try to shove our pornagraphic images, there will be a vaccuum. Memorize some Scripture and when you start thinking something impure, replace the thought with Scripture. Also, keep occupied. Idle hands lead to idle thoughts and we all know where idle thougts turn. Interacting with other people is an excellent way to avoid idleness.

Get rid of near occassions of this sin. Especially the Internet. If you need the Internet, make sure you get filters and make sure your computer is in a public place. I this day and age, it can seems really hard to get away from near occassions. Be honest with yourself. Don't let yourself go into denial, saying, "I'm only going to surf the web...nothing wrong with that," when you really know all you want to do it drool over some woman (who doesn't know, or give a care about you). Don't say, "I just want a nap," when you feel your conscience tugging at you because what you really want is to fantasize about something lustful (that will never happen and is really quite stupid).

Get an accountability partner (not a woman). Be honest and forthcoming to him. You can't beat this alone. A spiritual director would be great. Whatever the case, make sure whoever you talk to WILL hold you accountably. Its best to do it face to face.

You should also understand what sexuality is and why it is so wrong to masturbate.

That's about it from my knowledge bank. They say physical recreation helps. I don't do that much. I've found that a strong prayer life, and friends (especially female-friends) who are modest and pure in dress and speech are about the best influence to stop (not that I EVER discuss this with women). Friends who take their vocation to holiness seriously are a big help in whatever sins you are struggling with.

God bless you in your struggles.

-Doug

-- Douglas Naaden (doog777@hotmail.com), August 23, 2003.



Matt, I was reading the bottom of your post.

Mortal sin destroys the supernatural virtue of charity, not faith. While it probably does weaken your faith, you do not loose it. In fact you should harness your faith to pull you up out of your slump. You faith tells you that Jesus took on our human flesh, suffered and died, to save us from the bondage of sin. The means of our access to this grace is the Church. Go to Confession regularly, pray, fast and give alms. Maintain a devotion to the BVM and your guardian angel. If you search and try your best to honestly live the Faith, God will never, ever desert you. That is what your faith tells you. Your faith tells you there is hope, and with Christ can will beat this habit.

Another note, sin doesn't increase with knowledge. Our awareness of sin increases with knowledge. Just like if you went to college and took a bunch of courses in health and dieting, you'd probably realize how unhealthy you are eating. That is not a bad sign, it is a good thing. Now that you are aware of your sin, you can do something about it. These sins have been holding you back, and now you can progress further, provided you are open to the Grace of God. If you didn't realize what you were doing wrong, you wouldn't be able to realize as much potential. Every spiritual trial is not just something we have to get through, it is something that helps us realize our dependence on God, helps us know the weakness of our humanity, and an gives us an oppurtunity to overcome the trial thereby becoming more conformed to Christ.

-- Douglas Naaden (doog777@hotmail.com), August 23, 2003.


Another really good website for this is www.settingcaptivesfree.com

-- Matt (slywakka250@yahoo.com), September 02, 2003.

Actually, the whole notion that masturbation is sinful stems from an error. The "sin of Onan" was not that he "spilled his seed on the ground" per se, but that he did it in direct and wilful violation of divine orders to impregnate his brother's widow. His sin was disobedience, not masturbation.

--Rob

-- Rob (idont@thinkso.com), September 04, 2003.


Dear Rob,

Thanks for your personal interpretation of that Old Testament passage. Such an interpretation might have relevance if the Catholic Church's teaching were simply based on that passage. But it is not. It is based on the teaching of Jesus Christ concerning the sanctity of marriage and sexual expression, as preached and recorded by the Apostles, and as taught and interpreted by the infallible Church of God for the past 2,000 years. What you should reference here is not an Old Testament story about one man who masturbated, whatever his motive. Rather, it is the words of Christ to His Church ... "The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth" ... "He who hears you hears Me" ... "Whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven". There is God's assurance that the teaching of the Church, the biblical Pillar and Foundation of truth, on sexual matters as on all doctrinal and moral matters, is reliable and true.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), September 04, 2003.


Besides what Paul told you, Rob, you are just factually wrong.

As recorded in one of the books of the Pentateuch, God had already specified the penalty for disobeying him and breaking the "levirate law," as Onan did. The penalty was not death nor anything even close to such a dire punishment.

Please be aware, Rob, that you are a guest at a Catholic discussion forum -- not at a general religion site. I have noticed that you are posting nothing here but brief rejections of various Catholic teachings. Please try to do something that would make people treat you as a welcome guest.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 04, 2003.



I couldn't help but notice the last post on here when reading up on a question that concerns me. I am a confirmed Catholic. This does not mean that I know all that there is to know about the Church. I do try though and have always been brought up under the impression that the word of God speaks to us all. That's why Church is so uplifting, I feel that He is talking to me in a way I can understand. History for the past 2000 years has guided us to a more liberal inclusive participation in mass. We've gone from Latin to all languages for instance. This implies that one can believe the message they get out of God's word if they know in their heart that their faith guides them. Thus, I reach my point. I do not wish to be rude, but upon reading the last post I was somewhat indignant at the way Rob's post was treated. I believe he was trying to add his beliefs to the discussion in hope of creating support for someone who may themself feel masturbation to be "o.k." in a general sense. The harsh treatment that made him appear unwelcome was not a very Christian attitude and only brought to mind the unfortunate Galileo condemned by the 'infallible' Church.

-- Anon. (mamorumoonie@yahoo.com), September 04, 2003.

Jmj
Hello, "Anon."

I must say that your message was extremely disappointing. I would have hoped for much better from a "confirmed Catholic."

You wrote: "History for the past 2000 years has guided us to a more liberal inclusive participation in mass. We've gone from Latin to all languages for instance. This implies that one can believe the message they get out of God's word if they know in their heart that their faith guides them."

No, it doesn't imply that at all. You cannot blindly trust your "heart." Instead, you can trust an interpretation of what is read in the Bible if it is coherent and (more importantly) if it does not conflict with the Catholic Church's teachings, as found in the Catechism. If there is a conflict, then you can be sure that you have misinterpreted the passage.

You continued:
"I do not wish to be rude, but upon reading the last post I was somewhat indignant at the way Rob's post was treated."

What you said is not "rude," but only unreasonable. Rob was treated well enough -- and better than he treated the forum when he peppered three or four threads with comments that were unnecessarily critical or sarcastic against Catholicism (without ever trying to be friendly).

You stated: "I believe he was trying to add his beliefs to the discussion in hope of creating support for someone who may themself feel masturbation to be "o.k." in a general sense."

But as Catholics, we cannot permit anyone who "feels" that way to have unchallenged "support." Anyone who thinks that masturbation is "o.k." is wrong and in spiritual trouble.

You concluded: "The harsh treatment that made him appear unwelcome was not a very Christian attitude and only brought to mind the unfortunate Galileo condemned by the 'infallible' Church."

Again, you have made an unreasonable comment. My words to Rob were not "harsh treatment," but were polite ("Please ... please"). Your real problem with me was not "harshness," but rather the fact that I showed his message to be without foundation. You agreed with his "facts," so you are unhappy that I proved him wrong. That is your real problem.

Your comment about Galileo shows that you are uninformed on that topic too. The judgment against that scientist, by a group of bishops, was not intended to be a teaching action or an attempted exercise of infallibility. You claim to be a Catholic. You need to believe in the Church's infallibility in teaching all its members about faith and morality, or you need to stop calling yourself "Catholic."

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), September 05, 2003.


Hello,

I don't want to get into a large debate here but I had to comment on some of the goings on around here..... I happen to know the anon. postee. They had a bit of a breakdown in tears after reading that last message. "Disappointing" message? They were trying to help. Trying to soothe what they saw as a bit of a harsh comment only to have it double back onto them. Some Catholic churches have little to no teaching in their CCD programs so how are people supposed to know the Church is infallible if they were never brought up to believe such? I know, I am the product of several such Churches where we were taught that our faith would help us in hearing God's message through his word. Also, the term 'unreasonable' seemed only to confirm anon.'s suspicion that people who are contradicted on here lash out at dissention. They could see the scarcasm in the italicized 'welcome' and had actually read through a good amount of posts to see Rob's point of view so see if the comment was warranted. It seems that any ideas differing from the Catholic Church are put down here, thus dis-illusioning those who don't know they are being offensive. IF this is such a problem, the site ought to be reconstructed so only 'qualified' members of the Catholic faith can post. Maybe that would involve email checking BEFORE posts go up on the site. It might eliminate a lot of trouble by censoring those with different views. Also, as you like to quote past posts, you had said: "Your real problem with me was not "harshness," but rather the fact that I showed his message to be without foundation. You agreed with his "facts," so you are unhappy that I proved him wrong. That is your real problem." You might have simply proven your point that Rob was wrong and left it at that. If is is so annoyingly wrong to have different views why do we allow anyone to post on here? That's very misleading to people who feel they are offering their opinion in a safe environment. And on another note, the anon. postee never agreed with Rob. They only defended his view against such treatment since he did not offer any sort of verbal attack on the Church and the response seemed unmerited. You ended: "You claim to be a Catholic. You need to believe in the Church's infallibility in teaching all its members about faith and morality, or you need to stop calling yourself 'Catholic.'" Based on the teachings this person recieved from Catholic CCD for 20+ years, they felt they were perfectly correct to question and explore. To insult someone in such a way is highly unsupportive and is a great turnoff to the faith as a whole. In their upset state of mind the postee thought they might even take your 'advice' and 'stop calling themself Catholic'! They feel highly let down by the religious support they had always turned to. They felt they had defended a hypocritical system by saying to friends and aquaintances "What a great openminded relegion they had." I truly wish that if this is the general goingson on this site that it is speedily reconstructed so that only those with "true Catholic" faith are allowed to post. As it now stands, it only serves as a debate ground for topics that apparently are undebatable.

Peace. anon.'s friend

P.S. They clarified their Galileo statement for me later..... they meant it as merely an example of a general Church error to contradict the infallibility statement since they had studied to topic a good deal.

-- bystander (iamnot@givingyoumyemail.com), September 06, 2003.


If they had studied the topic at all, either from Catholic sources or from neutral sources, they should have immediately realized that the Galileo incident had no relevance whatsoever to the matter of doctrinal infallibility. Infallibility does not mean that leaders of the Church cannot make mistakes. It likewise does not mean that they cannot commit sin. Church leaders regularly do both. Infallibility means that the Church cannot err in its official doctrinal teaching on matters of faith and/or morals. It has nothing to do with a disciplinary action against a person who publishes a heretical statement. Such an action may be just or unjust, warranted or unwarranted, right or wrong, but in any case has no bearing on the matter of infallibility.

-- Paul (PaulCyp@cox.net), September 06, 2003.

Sorry. I didn't realize you meant doctrinal decisions only. I got a different implication off of that and didn't mean to be disenting. :( I simply misunderstood the statement due to past conversations with other more 'haughty' persons.... no offense intended.

anon.

-- anon. (mamorumoonie@yahoo.com), September 06, 2003.



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