When family life includes a Concubine, what is the proper way for other Catholics to interpet this? I know of a situation in which two sisters are sharing the same man...

Details, first wife divorce, second wife, sister of first wife divorce, everyone living together no kids (Civil marrage).

How can this be cleaned up? Can he keep both?

-- Johnq_Public (John@aol.com), October 08, 2003

Answers

Does it matter if kids were included?

-- Johnq_Public (John@aol.com), October 08, 2003.

If all the marriages in question were civil marriages only then it appears that what we have here is not concubinage but fornication.

If Sister A married John Doe at their local parish, then divorced, and he attempted marriage with Sister B, he would be committing adultery and she would be committing fornication.

Solution would be to have her cease and desist (and problaby move out).

But if neither woman is sacramentally married to the man, then essentially we have 3 people fornicating. If any of the 3 are Catholic (or other Christians) the immediate solution is to stop engaging in pre- or extra-marital sexual relations. If this means moving out of the house, then do that.

In times past some pagan men in this situation who convert have had to choose which gal to marry and which to leave.

The Pauline priviledge is what happens when one pagan converts and their natural law spouse does not... the Christian may "divorce" the former partner and get married in the Church to another Christian.

But once you are married (as opposed to merely signing up at the court house or merely having a wedding party), you have to be monogamous and faithful.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), October 08, 2003.

Fornication? Give examples of your answers... And who should leave/end this situation if no one is married.

How does that apply to a household with a Catholic background? (raised Catholic), stuck in a financial/emotional situation.

-- Johnq_Public (John@aol.com), October 08, 2003.

If none of the 3 adults in question have married sacramentally, then all 3 of them are committing fornication, not adultery or concubinage...(it's a matter of defining our terms: fornication is any sexual act of an unmarried person. Adultery is sexual actions of a person who is married to someone else. Concubinage is having sex with a 3rd party who lives in your home along side your wife.)

Now your original questions specifies that the sisters were both divorced from civil marriages, and both are living with a man.

It doesn't matter if he or all three were raised Catholics. The fact is, according to your information, none of them were involved in a sacramental marriage (i.e. exchange of Catholic marriage vows blessed by the Church).

So I must conclude, given the facts as you lay them out, that we're dealing with sacramentally unmarried people. Hence, 3 fornicating people.

In such a case, if John Doe wants to marry Jane Doe 1 in the Catholic Church, he has to first stop sleeping with Jane Doe 2 and should move out until after the marriage takes place. (Jane Doe 1&2 being sisters would be welcome to stay together as siblings).

Once Jane Doe 1 marries JOhn Doe, the two of them should either move to a new apartment or home or Jane Doe 2 should depart.

Naturally, if 2 of them want this to be a real sacramental grace filled marriage, they will first need to go to confession....

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), October 08, 2003.

>>> In such a case, if John Doe wants to marry Jane Doe 1 in the Catholic Church, he has to first stop sleeping with Jane Doe 2 and should move out until after the marriage takes place. (Jane Doe 1&2 being sisters would be welcome to stay together as siblings). What if- the ones who want to get married are Jane Doe 1 and Jane Doe 2 (not to each other, but for John Doe to Choose)? The obvious answer is one should leave, but what does that say about marriage (from a female point of view)?

>>> Naturally, if 2 of them want this to be a real sacramental grace filled marriage, they will first need to go to confession....

In addition, what happens to the third? Also, confess to a sinful life style?

The questions and answers for the most part is obvious, but there are a lot of people in the world who live this way and common sense gets thrown to the wind.

-- Johnq_public (john@aol.com), October 09, 2003.

Of course. If all 3 are nominally Catholic Christians, all all want to be truly happy and therefore, holy, then all three people should go to confession for the sin of "out of bounds" sexual activity. But they should also arrange things so that the occasion or temptation of the sin doesn't crop up again by inertia such as separating physically (at least one person if not two have to move out of the apartment).

I think it's also important for people to remember that this is rarely "just about sex" - even sex itself is rarely if ever "merely a bodily function". It's always about relationship, personal and community health and happiness.

Women especially are often hurt by lust (both their own and men's) in deeply emotional and psychological ways. Too many times our generation confuses true emotional intimacy and friendship with sexual activity when in fact having sex with someone who is not your spouse actually can KEEP you from ever really getting intimate and personal with them.

Its a great temptation to substitute the rich life of interpersonal friendship, respect, communication, and "honor" that comes as part of the course in any chaste relationship with the physical expression of love...which quickly can become merely mutual abuse and lust.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), October 10, 2003.

This question is easy to answer...the one that he married first is the wife...the second is adultery...it is impossible for the marriage of the second to be sacramental...because it doesn't exist......it is adultery......

-- Pamela B (rosylace@aol.com), October 11, 2003.

There is no paulin privilege to divorce a spouse that does not convert to the Church......what it does say is that if the non- Christian doesn't want to continue the marriage then they were free to leave.....It says nothing about remarriage....it would be assumed that if both were not baptized that it would not matter because...the bible says that the believing wife will sanctify the unbelieving husband and vice versa ....I think this is a prime example of offering up penance and prayer and suffering for anothers salvation...

-- Pamela (rosylace@aol.com), October 11, 2003.