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So, are you saying that it doesn't say it in the bible, but the bishops simply took over after the last apostle was killed? I know it doesn't say it in the bible. Okay then when did the office of a bishop stop being the office of a bishop and become the office of an apostle?. I guess you weren't the one that said that, I'm just wondering. I love all the emails I really do, I am going to have to answer in the jointly. sorry about that. When the bishop was now being an apostle who took over his job as bishop?, was it a priest? Who took his responsibilities? It is not a matter of reasoning it all out, Oh what a powerful reasoner self-interest it?, but it is a matter of God doing his work. God controls all things, we are free to help Him or go off on a tangent of our own. I know that God speaks to the leadership of his church because God tells me so. I suppose Pauls word Gnosis is appropriate, using it as many times as he does in the New Testament 28 times I believe. He declared the loss of three things Prophcy, Gnosis being two of them, while three things remained Charity Love and Faith. This is not mysticism, New platonism is paganism with a christian heartburn.

-- Frank Godfrey (, October 08, 2003


The Apostles were the men Jesus chose to establish His Church on earth. A Church can only be established once. However, a Church once established also needs to be administrated and shepherded. That's what bishops do. And the sacraments, the principle sources of grace given by Christ to the Church, must be made available to all generations, and the Word of God preached. That is what priests do. The Apostles were the first bishops of the Church, as well as the first priests of the Church. And inherent in their position as BISHOPS, not as apostles, was their power to ordain other bishops and other priests. Inherent in their identity as PRIESTS, not as apostles, was their calling to consecrate the Eucharist as Jesus diod at the last supper, to forgive men's sins, to baptize, to preside at weddings, and to annoint the sick. There is no need to have Apostles establishing the Church today. It was established once and for all time 2,000 years ago. But the ministries of bishop and priest are still essential to the life of the Church, and still ordained in exactly the same way they were ordained in apostolic times - by the laying on of hands by a bishop. There could be no Church as Christ founded it, without priests and bishops.

-- Paul (, October 08, 2003.

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