Bible Versions - Translation Typesgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Ask Jesus : One Thread |
Readers,
Unfortunately this forum closed due to maintence problems with the server.
If you are interested in continuing a discussion, you can go to this board:
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Or try our URL Forwarder www.bluespun.com
This was our back up board, but now we all relocated here.
Hope to see you there! All links lead to the same place!
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@gmail.com), November 28, 2005.
American Standard Version - Formal equivalence
The Amplified Bible - Paraphrase (How sad)
The Authorized Version - See King James Version
Beck Bible - Out of print? - modern translation by William F. Beck (Lutheran) which uses contemporary American English
Bible in Basic English - Formal equivalence
Contemporary English Version - Dynamic equivalence
Cotton Patch Version - Paraphrase
Darby Translation - Literal?
Douay-Rheims Bible - Literal? Based on the Latin Vulgate
English Revised Version - Revision of the King James Version
English Standard Version - Formal equivalence
Good News Bible - paraphrase - See Today's English Version
International Children's Bible - See New Century Version
J.B. Phillips (NT) - Dynamic equivalence
King James Version - Formal equivalence, based on Masoretic (OT) and Textus Receptus (NT)
The Living Bible - Paraphrase
The Message - Paraphrase
Modern Language Bible - See New Berkley Version
Moffatt's New Translation - Paraphrase?
New American Bible - Modern translation for the Roman Catholic Church; includes books of the Apocrypha
New American Standard - Formal equivalence, Revision of the American Standard Version (Revision of the English Revised
Version of the King James Version)
New Berkley Version - Formal equivalence
New Century Version - Dynamic equivalence
New English Bible - Dynamic equivalence
New International Version - Dynamic equivalence
New International Reader's Version - Dynamic equivalence - Simplified version of the New International Version
New Jerusalem Bible - Revision of the Jerusalem Bible (paraphrase)
New King James Version - Formal equivalence - Revision of the King James Version;
New Living Translation - Dynamic equivalence
New Revised Standard - Formal equivalence - Revision of the Revised Standard Version;
New World Translation - Sponsored by the Watchtower Society, used by the Jehovah's Witnesses
Revised English Bible - Revision of the New English Bible
Revised Standard Version - Revision of the American Standard Version
Today's English Version - Dynamic equivalence
Twenty-First Century King James - Formal equivalence, Corrupts the King James Version
Williams' New Testament - Dynamic equivalence
Wycliffe Bible - translated from Jerome's Latin Vulgate
Young's Literal Translation - Formal equivalence
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), November 19, 2003
Formal (Word for Word)
Dynamic (Thought for Thought)
In the Formal translation type, you have to do some careful reading. Translator just translated text into your langauge, no bias or prejudice views. Translator just tells us what God said.
In the Dynamic translation type, when the text seems difficult to understand, the Translator changes what God said into something he thinks you will better understand. Whatever bias or prejudice views he holds comes along with it. The translator is acting as a teacher; No longer is he just telling us what God said, but telling us what God meant.
God says,
"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever." (Psalm 12:6-7 / KJV)
It is your decision to believe if God kept his promise.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), November 19, 2003.
So, why would anyone desire to learn Aramaic, Hewbrew, Greek, Latin, and so on? Perhaps they wish to get to the very exact Scriptures without the middle-man translators/interpreters? Uh.........yes.So, those who accept their translations/versions as the truth are really saying that they are following blindly what the translators have provided--right or wrong. Huh? And then they go and criticize Catholics for following the guidance from the Pope. Can anyone see what I see? The major problem, of course, is the multitude of interpretations upon interpretations that will inevitably get watered-down to....uh......a lie. So, this is why we find people hungry for the truth who go and study the original languages and traditions and history and cultures and on and on...................
rod..
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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 19, 2003.
Case In Point The Jehovah Witness gang has their own bible (small letter). I don't have the copy with me at this time, so I can't give you the exact title: The Greek Translations of Scriptures (or something like that). Anyway, that particular bible is filled with...uh....lies. But, who will be there to convince these JW's that the truth is not in their books? One example of the lies:
John 1:1 --In the beginning was the word.
That is evidence of their distorted theology. JW's don't view Christ the same ways that conventional Christianity does. For them, Jesus was just a man. Therefore, they accept their bible with the insignificant "word" instead of Word. There are other errors in their book. They really should have some teaching in the Holy Bible.
rod..
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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 19, 2003.
Well, this is the perfect cue for Elpidio.I know that Elpidio and I don't exactly see eye to eye on the issues of "divinity" vs. "exalted" relating to Jesus. So, what may follow is Elpidio with his explanation:
rod..
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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 19, 2003.
Precisely, Rod.To understand the Bible: a) Must have a grasp of the original languages: Hebrew and Aramaic (Old Testament), Greek : New Testament and the Septuagint for the Old testament.
(The reason I mentioned the Septuagint, is because this Greek translation of the Old Testament is the one which has created these beliefs: Mary was a Virgin and Jesus is God)
b) Know the traditions and customs of those days. c) Ask God for an open heart. d) Be willing to accept the truth, even if it goes against what one hold to be sacred or true.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 19, 2003.
Something else I forgot to mention David and Rod is the input by the writer: What does the writer believe? What does the writer intend in his ,essage? How much of the writer is commentary? How did the writer put the book together? ancient languages? Is the writer of the book the same one people believe he is or is someone else whose reputation is not as known?Case in point.
David quoted Psalm 45 to me as found in Hebrews 1 to show Jesus is God.
Let's look at original wording in Hebrew. First notice the word used for God is Elohim:
Thy throne, [03678] kicce' O God, [0430] 'elohiym [is] for ever [05769] `owlam and ever: [05703] `ad the sceptre [07626] shebet of thy kingdom [04438] malkuwth [is] a right [04334] miyshowr sceptre. [07626] shebet
Elohim is the word here used to refer to Yahweh.
Somehow, the writer in Hebrews uses the word for Jesus. This writer, who is not the apostle Paul, has misinterpreted a passage from scripture and applied it to Jesus.
Look at the same passage in the Hebrew Bibles as used by Jews. The passage refers to the King of Israel, most likely David or Solomon, the only ones to be Kings of Israel besides Saul.
2 My heart overfloweth with a goodly matter; I say: 'My work is concerning a king'; {N} my tongue is the pen of a ready writer. 3 Thou art fairer than the children of men; grace is poured upon thy lips; {N} therefore God hath blessed thee for ever. 4 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O mighty one, thy glory and thy majesty. 5 And in thy majesty prosper, ride on, in behalf of truth and meekness and righteousness; {N} and let thy right hand teach thee tremendous things. 6 Thine arrows are sharp--the peoples fall under thee--[they sink] into the heart of the king's enemies. 7 Thy throne given of God is for ever and ever; a sceptre of equity is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 8 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated wickedness; {N} therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Can you see that in the Hebrew it doesn't say the King is God, but that his throne is given by God.
Big difference.
Unfortunately, Rod, the writer of Hebrews wasn't familioar with the Hebrew but the Greek Septuagint. He made a Big Mistake.
That is why, Rod to see things in context, and not like Protestants, by verse.
My son David O. still to young to see it. By I have faith in him that the day will come when his eyes will be opened. He knows more about the Bible than I did at his age.
Like David, I started reading the Bible in Spanish. I used the translation of the Vulgate into Spanish. Like David, I believe it was the word of God.
I was wrong.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 19, 2003.
Here is the Jewish Bible from where I made the quotation:< a href="http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et2645.htm">Hebrew Bible
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 19, 2003.
From one of my other posts:Yes! and I know that the Bible tells that there is none who is "good". Well, here is when you are gonna have to figure out what is meant with the use of the word "good". Does it mean what it means for us today, or should we go and figure out what it meant during the time that it was written or why "good" is used in today's translations. This means the study of the original languages used in the Bible. You know; some still actually believe that a camel should go through the eye of an actual needle. It doesn't mean that at all. We are not talking about a sewing needle, but an opening to a city's wall configured as the entrance. I've also mentioned the use of the word "hate".
rod..
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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 19, 2003.
What a fiasco! ~ David's 39 Bible Versions and Condemnations! ~ Elpidio's Many Linguistic Translations! ~ Kevin's Countless Misinterpretations and Fabrications and Condemnations!And ALL Amateurish! All Half-Truth! What a vicious cycle!
The Authority on ALL TRUTH, the FULL TRUTH, and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH ~ is the One given Authority by Jesus Christ Himself in 30 A.D. ~ St. Peter and his Most Holy Catholic Church ~ Matthew 16:18.
While amateurs are still trying to make it to square 1 still deciphering the Most Holy Catholic Bible given to humankind by the Most Holy Catholic Church Herself, the Most Holy Catholic Church is already on square infinity and has already bore countless numbers of Holy Nuns, Holy Priests, Holy Saints, and Good Works.
While amateurs are still cutting and pasting their esoteric baby doctrines, the Most Holy Catholic Church has been busy applying the Full Truth for 2000 years ~ deep in Contemplative Life in Sacred Monasteries ~ deep in Prayer ~ deep in Holy Sacraments and Sacramentals ~ deep in proclaiming the Full Truth to the ends of the earth ~ deep in providing the Best Education in countless schools and universities all over the world ~ deep in countless Charities to the poor, unwanted, and needy.
While amateurs are dividing and scattering left and right, the Most Holy Catholic Church stays Strongly United, One, Single, and Sacred in Full Truth for 2000 years, fighting and annihilating heretical half-truths sprouting left and right for 2000 years.
While many amateurs blaspheme The Most Holy Mary, the Most Holy Catholic Church stands up and protects her Holiness and her Truth.
While amateurs eat bread and drink wine symbolically, the Most Holy Catholic Church truly gets nourished and eats and drinks the Real Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ for 2000 years!
While amateurs desecrate the Most Holy Eucharist, the Most Holy Catholic Church has been adoring Jesus Christ in the Most Holy Eucharist in Eucharistic Adoration for 2000 years.
Rod and Gail, you are on the Eternal Winning Team!
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 19, 2003.
James writes, "Kevin's Countless Misinterpretations and Fabrications and Condemnations!"This is something that James has YET to PROVE!!!! I have CONSTANTLY asked James to PROVE that I am guilty of this very thing to no avail.
-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 19, 2003.
Kevin keeps asking for proofs even though he had given No Proof whatsoever in defense of his new protestantism.Kevin remains deaf and blind to the Infallible and Sacred Proofs of the Most Holy Catholic Church.
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 19, 2003.
James, my brother, how many languages do you speak?Do you know Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek (Attic and Koine)?
I ask this since you said we are amateurish.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 19, 2003.
Indeed Elpidio, my brother, you are amateurish compared to the Totality of the 2000 year Expertise and Erudition of The Magisterium of the Most Holy Catholic Church. You are a pea; the Most Holy Catholic Church is Mount Everest. Mount Everest has annihilated many amateur climbers.
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 19, 2003.
You never answered the question, James. I believe you only know English, Some Latin, some Spanish, and some French, am I wrong?It is also unfortunate James that the leader of the Church knows Polish, some Russian, French, Spanish, German, English, Italian, and Latin, some Portuguese, yet
he doesn't know Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic.
Now I understand why we are still following dogmas not based on the truth.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 20, 2003.
Elpidio,
What exactly are your beliefs?
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), November 20, 2003.
I am about to have parent conferences right now at my High school.I will give you a Bible background later.
Here they are briefly: 1) I believe God is one, his name is Yahweh(Exodus) 2) Jesus is the Messiah, the one God had prophesied through his prophets. He is the suffering servant(Isaiah 53). 3) Jesus died for or sins and rose from the dead. (I corinthians 15). 4) God wants only our pure heart, not interested in sacrifices or anything related to it. (Galatians). 5) God always has worked and continues working. (Protestants believe God stopped with Paul, Catholics God still works but only as a Catholic) 6)Worship belongs to God alone. 7) Prayers could be done in the name of God, in the name of Jesus, or both. 8) Belief in Heaven, the Darkness, and expiation place. (As opposed to Hell and Heaven in Protestants and Heaven, Hell, Purgatory and Limbo in Catholics.). God did not create Hell to torure people, neither did he create purgatory, a lesser hell, to punish people. 9) God wants all people to be save. 10) People are born Good 11) People have freedom of Choice 12 sin is many timers the result of following our desires who go against God. 13) Faith is a component of Salvation 14) Righteousness is our mode of life. 15) Every one must be consecrated to God. 16) Baptism in water is for those who choose to be baptized and be members of the body of believers. 17) God is continually choosing people in his salvation plan. 18) Prophecy is alive.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 20, 2003.
Elpidio,Your approach to theology is too indivualistic; according to you, every person is a pioneer unto his own.
You failed to mention that the Pope also speaks Swahili, Danish, Bantu, Berber, Gaelic, Mandarin, etc., AND he does speak Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic ~ AND so does EVERY Catholic. The Pope belongs to the Body of Christ. The Magisterium belongs to the Body of Christ. All Catholics belong to the Body of Christ. The Magisterium speaks many languages including Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. The linguistic expertise of the Magisterium throughout 2000 years is the linguistic expertise of the Pope and the Entire Holy Catholic Church. The Erudition of the Magisterium is the Erudition of Every Catholic. The talent of one is the talent of All in the Body of Christ ~ The Entire Body of Christ benefits. As a United Whole, The Most Holy Catholic Church, the Body of Christ, speaks MANY, MANY Languages ~ the Spiritual Gift of the Most Holy Spirit Fulfilled ~ the Ability to Speak in Tongues ~ Real and Intelligible NOT Gibberish.
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 25, 2003.
James,the Pope reads messages, especially during Christmas in about 70 languages.
Yet, Hebrew, aramaic and Greek are not lsited as languages he is proficient in.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 26, 2003.
Rod,interesting the order of the gospels in an old Latin (Itala) manuscript. This dates before 400 AD: Codex Bobiensis
Excerp: Cod. Bobiensis [v or vi], now in the National Library at Turin (G. vii. 15), whither it was brough with a vast number of other books from Bobbio; traditionally asserted to have belonged to St. Columban, who died in the monastery he had founded there, in 615. This MS. is perhaps the most important, in regard to text, of all the Old Latin copies, being undoubtedly the oldest existing representative of the African type. It contains Mark 8:8-11; 8:14-16; 8:19-16:9; Matthew 1:1-3:10; 4:2-14:17; 15:20-36; the order then was probably John, Luke, Mark, Matthew. It was edited by F.F. Fleck in 1837
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
Rod and Jim F, did you see Mark ended at 16:9?Interesting that Mark comes before Matthew.
Rod, from what site do you get the Jerusalem Bible?
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
I have a 1966 released Jerusalem Bible and a reprint. So, I'm having to type in the verses.........................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
Rodrigo, que te parece lo que dice este sitio sobre el rey DavidLo tratan de asesino genocida y maricon.
El Cristiano Yavista
El Hombre de Yave
-- lpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
¿Ese David con el hijo de Saul? ¿Per digame, quien hizo los cambios en la Biblia, fueron los conversos o la iglesia catolica?............................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
...y tambien tengo las biblias en español menos La Guadalupana. Se me hizo muy caro para comprar. En realmente, la imagen de la Virgen en la primer pagina de esa biblia me puso un poco "suspicious". Bueno, el photo no la imagen........................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
je..je...quiero dicir "f<ó>to".....................
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
"foto" with the accent on the first "o", sorry.............
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
Rod, here is some Hebrew: on 2 Samuel 1:26 I am distressed [06887] tsarar for thee, my brother [0251] 'ach Jonathan: [03083] Y@hownathan very [03966] m@`od pleasant [05276] na`em hast thou been unto me: thy love [0160] 'ahabah to me was wonderful, [06381] pala' passing the love [0160] 'ahabah of women. [0802] 'ishshah From the Blue Bible: Notice Rod, that David compares Jonathan's love (ahabah) to the love (ahabah) of women.I don't believe David was gay.
Why? See Deuteronmy 6:5: And thou shalt love [0157] 'ahab the LORD [03068] Y@hovah thy God [0430] 'elohiym with all thine heart, [03824] lebab and with all thy soul, [05315] nephesh and with all thy might. [03966] m@`od
The same word for love(ahab) and the same word for soul (nefesh) are used.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
Rod, 2 Samuel 12:31 really says David massacred people:And he brought forth [03318] yatsa' the people [05971] `am that [were] therein, and put [07760] suwm [them] under saws, [04050] m@gerah and under harrows [02757] chariyts of iron, [01270] barzel and under axes [04037] magzerah of iron, [01270] barzel and made them pass [05674] `abar through the brickkiln: [04404] malben and thus did [06213] `asah he unto all the cities [05892] `iyr of the children [01121] ben of Ammon. [05983] `Ammown So David [01732] David and all the people [05971] `am returned [07725] shuwb unto Jerusalem. [03389] Y@ruwshalaim
I had a dreams about David's and saul's massacres in the summer of 2002. Some retro dreams.
The Christian Yahwist
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), February 25, 2004.
Jesus is my God. and always will be.
-- michael (wayfarstranger1@aol.com), August 14, 2004.