I am curious: Where in the Bible does it say that we have souls? I was chatting with one of those door-to-door Christians, and he said that we don't have souls. He was talking about physical resurrection after the Apocolypse and a restoration of a Eden-like place on Earth for those who are saved. This is an idea that never occurred to me. Are human souls mentioned in the Bible, or were they added by the Southern Europeans?

-- J Biscuits (thefilthohgodthefilth@yahoo.com), December 04, 2003

Answers

Job 33 16 he may speak in their ears and terrify them with warnings, 17 to turn man from wrongdoing and keep him from pride, 18 to preserve his soul from the pit, [2] his life from perishing by the sword. [3] 19 Or a man may be chastened on a bed of pain with constant distress in his bones, 20 so that his very being finds food repulsive and his soul loathes the choicest meal. 21 His flesh wastes away to nothing, and his bones, once hidden, now stick out. 22 His soul draws near to the pit, [4] and his life to the messengers of death. [5]

23 "Yet if there is an angel on his side as a mediator, one out of a thousand, to tell a man what is right for him, 24 to be gracious to him and say, 'Spare him from going down to the pit [6] ; I have found a ransom for him'- 25 then his flesh is renewed like a child's; it is restored as in the days of his youth. 26 He prays to God and finds favor with him, he sees God's face and shouts for joy; he is restored by God to his righteous state. 27 Then he comes to men and says, 'I sinned, and perverted what was right, but I did not get what I deserved. 28 He redeemed my soul from going down to the pit, [7] and I will live to enjoy the light.'

29 "God does all these things to a man- twice, even three times- 30 to turn back his soul from the pit, [8] that the light of life may shine on him.

31 "Pay attention, Job, and listen to me; be silent, and I will speak. 32 If you have anything to say, answer me; speak up, for I want you to be cleared. 33 But if not, then listen to me; be silent, and I will teach you wisdom."

-- Jeanie (mary_kissmiss@hotmail.com), December 04, 2003.

''For what does it profit a man if he gain the whole world but suffer the loss of his own soul? Or, what will a man give in exchange for his own soul?'' (Matt 16:26)

Interestingly, Jeannie; verse :27 following, Christ tells us: ''For the Son of Man is to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then HE WILL RENDER TO EVERYONE ACCORDING TO HIS CONDUCT.''

It means your conduct; works, will have something to say at the Last Judgment. Not only your faith.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 04, 2003.

. . . . . . . . . . .

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), December 04, 2003.

Wow, J Biscuits! What brings you here?

-- Anti-bush (Comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), December 08, 2003.

Eugene, yes works will play a part. Christ said we would know other Christians by their fruit "by their fruit ye shall know them" Matthew 7:16 and 7:20. However, without faith in Christ works are pointless. Ephesians 2:7-8 "For by grace are you saved through faith...it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast" "Works" for any man are only worth while if that person is already saved. Good deeds wont get you into heaven, but they will count in your favor when you get to heaven. 1 Corinthians 9 talks about receiving crowns of reward in heaven for works and acheivements on earth.

-- Jim Wilday (wildays@hotmail.com), December 12, 2003.

Yes, we will know them by their fruit which Paul describes in Galations 5. The fruits of the spirit are defined as love, joy, peace, patient endurance, kindness, generosity, faith, mildness, and chastity. How do you explain the fact that sometimes the fruits of the Spirit are present in non-Christians? The Dalai Lama for examples embodies far more fruits of the spirit then most Christians I know.

Also, regarding works. Ephesians 2:10 goes on to say 'We are truly his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to lead the life of good deeds which God prepared for us in advance.' Good works are essential, but the good works we do are not our own, they belong to God. I think it was Paul that said, "not I, but Christ in me". We can't take any credit for our good works, because without God we can't do them. Without God, we cannot do simple things like being patient with people that are argumentative and disagreeable, but with God, we can be patient with everyone!

-- Nick (spamfree@nospam.com), December 12, 2003.

Jim,

You are right in saying that "without faith in Christ works are pointless." However, you seem to ignore the equally important correlary, that "faith without works is useless" (James 2:20) You would do well to look at what the complete Word of God reveals on a subject before deciding what you believe, rather than deciding what you want to believe, and then trying to find isolated scripture passages that appear to support your position. There are so many scriptures emphasizing the need for faith, AND so many passages emphasizing the need for works, that no-one can read the Bible with a heart open to the truth and come away thinking that either faith or works is unnecessary.

You are right in saying "good works won't get you into heaven". The Catholic Church agrees with you completely. But it is also true that faith won't get you into heaven if works are lacking. Works won't "get you into heaven", but you won't get into heaven without them. Faith won't "get you into heaven", but you won't get into heaven without it. You claim that "Works for any man are only worthwhile if that person is already saved". Such a statement contradicts the Word of God however, since the Word tells us , first, that no-one is "already saved" while he is still alive on this earth (Matt 24:13; Mark 13:13); and second, that no-one is saved without works (James 2:20,24,26; Matt 225:45-46). The only "crown" anyone will receive is the crown of salvation, and they will forfeit that crown if they ignore either the requirement for faith or the requirement for works.

You really need to take a hard look at what they are telling you at your church, and ask yourself honestly if beliefs that require you to ignore or reject many passages of God's Holy Word can really be true.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), December 12, 2003.

Jmj
Hello, Nick.

You wrote:
"How do you explain the fact that sometimes the fruits of the Spirit are present in non-Christians?"
Since this thread asks, "Do we have souls," I suggest that you start a new thread on this separate topic. I'll just very quickly say that what you see in non-Christians are not "the fruits of the Spirit," since only Baptism imparts the Holy Spirit to people. What you see, instead, is something know as "natural virtues."

You also wrote (on another topic different from the primary one): "Good works are essential, but the good works we do are not our own, they belong to God. ... We can't take any credit for our good works, because without God we can't do them."
While our good works are God working through us, we can nevertheless call them our own, because we are not puppets. We have to use our free will to say "yes" to God's desire to work in us. We have to "co-operate" with God, who does not force us to do anything. We have to become his "co-workers," even though he doesn't need our help.

God bless you.
John

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 14, 2003.