How do Christians in Muslim-majority countries live?

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Since we were talking about Islam, here is the article Michael Novak wrote about today:

From Civilta Cattolica a magazine edited by Italian members of the Jesuit order. Founded in 1849, the magazine carries a uniquely authoritative status because-- although it is not an official organ of the Vatican-- all of the articles published in the magazine are approved in advance by the Vatican Secretariat of State (responsible for external and internal affairs of state at the Vatican, like a PM).

How do Christians in Muslim-majority countries live? [...]In conclusion, we may state in historical terms that in all the places where Islam imposed itself by military force, which has few historical parallels for its rapidity and breadth, Christianity, which had been extraordinarily vigorous and rooted for centuries, practically disappeared or was reduced to tiny islands in an endless Islamic sea. It is not easy to explain how that could have happened. [...]

In reality, the reduction of Christianity to a small minority was not due to violent religious persecution, but to the conditions in which Christians were forced to live in the organization of the Islamic state. [...]

The translation of a good part of the article is here: http://213.92.16.98/ESW_articolo/0,2393,41931,00.html

A link to the complete article, in Italian, on the website of "La Civiltà Cattolica":

http://www.laciviltacattolica.it/Quaderni/2003/3680/Articolo%20De%20Rosa.html

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 17, 2003

Answers

Two things: first in the 600's most of Northern Africa and the Middle East was under the sway of the Byzantine Empire, which heavily taxed its provinces to pay for the increasingly corrupt regime in Constantinople... so there was major economic incentives for people to let the Muslims drive out the Byzantine troops...

The Arab armies came in promising two things: first an end to crushing taxation (huge tax cut), and two, an end to crushing Imperial religious heavy-handedness... local Christians all knew personally that fickle emperors and empresses changed theology on a dime and used the army to force new heterodox ideas on them.

But then, you had pockets of Arians left over as well as Iconoclasts... and the Muslims' belief that Jesus could not possibly be God and their rejection of all "idols" sat very well with these defeated minorities. So they seemed very much like "liberators".

And while the first generation of Muslim overlords did not commit genocide or widespread religious persecution, they did begin to implement the non-believer "tax", the second-class citizen status laws, and forbade both the construction of new churches and the conversion of new members... so it was only a matter of time before only the most committed Christians remained in the fold.

After all, cut off from the rest of the world and ruled by people who are willing to tolerate you if you lie low but will kill you if you step out of line... 90% of people will lie low and feel like they got a bargain!

Without being able to openly preach the gospel, and being automatically a second-class citizen, was a hard load to carry for people whose parents had only JUST defeated the Arian persecution, whose great-grandparents had suffered from the "barbarian invasions", and whose great-great-great grandparents remembered the Roman persecution.

Add to this a loss of education and you get the picture: highly complex Catholic theology married to a fairly complex array of moral and social presumptions and laws can only "convert" an invading power that preaches an extremely simple theology and moral code IF the clergy is both numerous, well trained, saintly, and backed up by a majority of laity.

But by 636, all those Christian lands had suffered a 1,2,3 knock out punch.

Quick time time: 636 Jerusalem falls. 711 Spanish nobles in rebellion against king hire a Muslim army to fight for them, provide transport to Spain, and then are themselves betrayed and defeated, leaving Spain in the hands of this Muslim army.

In 732 the Muslim armies invade France but are stopped by an outnumbered (but shrewder) French force who waited until the Muslims had plundered several towns and were loaded down with booty and tired.

800 Rome is sacked by Muslim raiders, gold stripped from ancient Basilica of St Peters.

1098, after 400 years of being defensive Western Christian armies launch crusades. (Spanish and Byzantine armies had been fighting small skirmishes and border feuds for centuries).

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), December 17, 2003.


From the article:

THE PRESENT CONDITION OF CHRISTIANS IN THE MUSLIM WORLD

Radical Islam, which proposes that shari’a law be instituted in every Islamic state, is gaining ground in many Muslim countries, in which groups of Christians are also present. It is evident that the institution of shari’a would render the lives of Christians rather difficult, and their very existence would be constantly in danger. This is the cause of the mass emigration of Christians from Islamic countries to Western countries: Europe, the United States, Canada, and Australia. [...] The estimated number of Arab Christians who have emigrated from Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and Israel in the last decade hovers around three million, which is from 26.5 to 34.1 percent of the estimated number of Christians currently living in the Middle East.

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), December 17, 2003.


Moe racisim more self-justitification for Americian aggression...

-- Padraig Caughey (padraigcaughey@hotmail.com), December 20, 2003.

If you don't like it, Paddy, you can try a different forum (or start your own). You seem constantly miserable here, and you are ruining others' enjoyment here as well.
JFG

-- J. F. Gecik (jfgecik@hotmail.com), December 21, 2003.

Hi John, I wouldn't worry too much about Paddy . . . you make heads- or-tails out of anything he says anyway!

Love,

Gail

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), December 21, 2003.



Wait...didn't Lebanon elect a Christian President at one point? I think I read somwhere that they did, but he was assasinated by Hamas or Islamic Jihad or some group like that upon taking office.

-- Anti-bush (Comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), January 03, 2004.

Lebanon had a Christian majority for many decades -- and had far more than just one Christian president. The nation went majority Moslem in our lifetimes, I believe. That's what caused it to go down the tubes.

-- (The@Scoop.com), January 03, 2004.

Many people are not aware of the scale or magnitude of the Muslims’ atrocities, especially with regards to humanity and logic. The issue of Muslim belligerence and cruelty is sort of personal, as my origin is from Lebanon. I sort of have a restrained aggression towards Muslims, since my faith stipulates that revenge is God’s, the flesh is unimportant, and love your enemy as you love yourself.

Even til today, there are celebrations being made by the Muslims because mosques are being built in some cities and towns of Lebanon for the first time, because they are breaking new ground. Lebanon is highly developed, beautiful country that has been many a Muslims fantasy to acquire it.

I would first like to bring to your attention some contributions of Lebanon to the evolution of mankind, and the general background of the country. Lebanon is situated at the edge of the Mediterranean, and has been a sort of hub between the West and East since the beginning. At the beginning, before 3000BC (I’m not sure about the dates), Lebanon was known as Phoenicia and encompassed much more land and was literally the only port connecting the West and East from the Mediterranean.

The Phoenicians were a very advanced, futuristic society; always spreading new technologies and advancements in other societies. They invented the ship and developed navigational mechanisms for travelling the seas. Subsequently, they also travelled widely, and not only spread advancements to other regions of the world, but also originated many countries. They were the ones who invented the written word, and spread literacy throughout human existence at the time. These are only a few of their contributions, and during a period of human kind when humans had very little knowledge about anything. In a sense, the Phoenicians turned on the light bulbs in the heads of the rest of humanity.

The Phoenicians and their successors were never glory seekers: they never sought an empire, they never defended themselves against conquerors except for some skirmishes here and there, and they respected all humans. If they were allowed to live in peace, they won’t make any trouble to their rulers. This is why belief in Jesus has been more sustained in Lebanon than any other region of the Middle East, despite their hardships.

When the Muslims invaded Lebanon, not all of Lebanon was taken over. There was a part of Lebanon that even the Muslims, with all their might, could not overpower. The people of that area were very powerful, but they eventually split into two groups and became weakened by a civil war. After the people of that region were weakened, the Muslims came in for the kill, literally. They massacred many, abducted some, and enslaved others.

A lot of people seem not to notice the fact that when a crusade was made, the armies of the West would first go to Lebanon to get recruits before they went down to Israel. Obviously, this speaks of the strength and importance of the Lebanese at that time. However, when the crusaders left, Lebanon was always left behind to pay the price; Muslims would take out their revenge on Christian Lebanese, massacring many.

Despite all the hardships and immigrations, many Christian cities and towns in Lebanon maintained autonomy from Muslim rule. The citizens of these cities and towns constantly had to fight the Ottomans and Yemenites and other Muslim ambushes in order to stay alive; but, some of the cities and towns eventually were worn down and were defeated by the Muslims. When a city or town was defeated, no one was spared, the Muslims murdered or drove out all who were in it and took all their properties.

The Christians of Lebanon persevered to the 20th century, maintaining a large presence in Lebanon. They were the majority of that country, consisting a very large percentage of the total population.

The most horrible atrocities to Lebanese Christians came during the first World War. These atrocities were at least equivalent to the holocaust. The Ottomans massacred two thirds of the total Christian population of Lebanon during that time, or at least 3 million. The story goes that a river, in Lebanon, flowed for forty days with the blood of Christians. Considering the Ottoman population was 40 million or so, and the Lebanese Christians were not a unified force, the Ottomans could have easily committed such atrocities.

When the Ottomans came into a city or town, the first thing they would do is go to their Muslim counterparts, living in the corresponding city or town, to find out who was Christian in the city or town. The Muslims, who were neighbours and close friends of and knew some Christians all of their lives, would encourage the Ottomans to go and massacre their Christian neighbours.

During the first World War, half of the Armenian population also perished at the hands of the Ottomans, or approximately, 1.5 million. The Armenians also lost 90% of their land.

If the French had not intervened, Lebanese Christians would have become extinct during the first World War by Muslims. Right after the french intervened, one third of the Christians that remained alive immigrated out of Lebanon. The Christians still had the majority in Lebanon, but about 60-70%.

After Word War II, Lebanon was given the option to be independent. The Lebanese Christians were indebted to the task of setting up a constitution. Out of good will, despite all that the Muslims did to them, the Christians included the Muslims in the political and administrative process of the country. Note that by this time, the Christians would have had numerous opportunities to cleanse Lebanon from Muslims. The government was set up so that the leader, the president of the country, would be one who had the religion of the majority of the country.

After Lebanon became independent, Lebanon rapidly became a well- developed country and a major player in the international community, but the hostilities towards the Christians never ended. Egyptians, Libyans, Syrians, and so forth, would still try to invade Christian cities and towns, and the citizens of those cities and towns had to defend their cities and towns. There was not well established military or organization systems to help fend off invaders of specific cities or towns. Outside invaders proved to be ineffective in defeating Christians strongholds, therefore, Muslim countries conspired to create a cavity within.

With the advent of Palestinian refugees, and their acceptance into Lebanon, in the 1970s, the perfect opportunity was created for the creation of the cavity. On the pretense of injustice, by a Christian controlled country, to its Muslim citizens, Syria, Lebanon’s only Muslim neighbouring country, began to spread havoc throughout the country. Using forces from within, the Muslim citizens and their sectarian habits, and forces from without, their invading army to destroy out skirting Christian cities and towns, the Christians were set on a path to being doomed. Syria would try to set off civil strife by murdering priests, performing atrocities on mainly Christians but sometimes also Muslims, and killing any political figure who showed signs of the ability to set things aright. Furthermore, the Syrians continually belittled Lebanon’s sovereignty by killing priests at its checkpoints within the country, killing political figures right on the steps of country’s parliaments, taking over the buildings of the Lebanese press, and much more.

The result was a series of civil wars, that in combination with the atrocities committed by the Syrians and other Muslims from all over the Muslim world, resulted in the death of about 400,000 Lebanese Christians and 1 million immigrating out of Lebanon. All this occurred between the time period of 1975 - 1984. Also, within that time periods, when the Israelites invaded Lebanon up to Beirut, the Christians were encouraged to cleanse Lebanon out of Muslims; but, they dissented, because they felt this is not the way humans should behave. Ungrateful were the Muslims.

Between 1986 - 1990 a full fledged civil war occurred in Lebanon, at first between the Christians and the Muslims, and later, between the Lebanese and the Syrians. Unfortunately, the Christians were defeated, and the implementation of the Islamic agenda may take affect in Lebanon.

Lebanon is an example to us on why we should help other Christian countries, and other Christians throughout the world. Here was a thriving, prosperous country, a mirror image of America, that was blatantly butchered. Here is a community with deep rooted traditions and a culture that extends back to the beginning of time, which is being destroyed. This shows that there are no limits for the Muslims that will stop them from getting their desires. They want to build an empire and their religion is man’s constitution for building a one race empire.

Note that Lebanon is not dead yet, we can still save it. Check the Internet for more information.

-- Was (ofpeach@hotmail.com), February 22, 2004.


Thank you, "Was(ofpeach)," for this valuable history lesson.

-- (The@Scoop.com), February 22, 2004.

We must do everything we can to bring true freedom to the Middle East. It is possible. Pray that Iraq will succeed in this dream.

The next country to fall to an Islamic state is, very likely, Saudi Arabia. It is a weak monarchy now with a strong conservative Islamic eliment. It's neighbors are worried.

In Christ,
Bill Nelson



-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), February 22, 2004.



It might as well be an Islamic state now. Women can't leave the house unless fully covered, other religions are banned, people have their hands and feet chopped off for various petty crimes such as stealing an apple. Heck, the driving force behind the creation of the Saudi Arabian state in the first place was the Wahhabi Muslims.

-- Anti-bush (Comrade_bleh@hotmail.com), February 24, 2004.

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