Noah's Arkgreenspun.com : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread |
I have read discusson about Noah's Ark in here before, but I watched an interesting show on the discovery channel last night and I was wondering if anyone else saw it. They basically, after looking into the many different stories of finding the ark, talked about how the story came from ealy BC, and that it may have been an evolved into the story it is now. They were saying it happened in the area of Iraq and was basically a large localized flood.I know that this has been argued before, but after watching it the version they give sounds possible and actually more probable. Not that I agree with it, but isn't it possible that the story became more than it originally was, just to make for a better lesson?
Just curios to what everyone thinks about the possibility.
-- Carlos De Lafuente (delafuetne@yahoo.com), January 19, 2004
Personally, I stick tot he Bibles answer, however...The word "World" did not mean "Planet" as it does not, indeed, ig you live in America you live in the "New world." This was literal to the older days... some speculate that it may have been a highly concentrated local flood, one that took out all, or most, of early humanity.
But this doesnt mean it flooded the entite planet, just all of what Noah called the world... howerver, the possibility remains that the whole planet was covered as well.
On an aside, I recently read articles about Noah's Ark possibley having been found...
-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), January 19, 2004.
I personally take this story to be metaphorical -- there was some great disaster that caused flooding in the region, and many many people died. I believe some ancient Babylonian literature also mentions a huge flood.
-- AVC (littleflower1976@yahoo.com), January 19, 2004.
Some events in the Noah narrative might be taken metaphorically. But it is not fiction. The entire world was destroyed once, in a universal flood that left only those eight human beings alive. They replenished the human race and all our existing fauna. This is revealed by God.It was a divine ''house-cleaning'', and God doesn't clean house by serving us with myths. Death came universally and all the earth was restored again by God's mercy who warned Noah so as to save the human race.
Pagan writings which point to a flood are certainly eye-witness accounts sent down in pre-historic tradition. They are preserved in other cultures along with that of the Hebrews and recall real facts.
-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 19, 2004.
Interesting web page on the topic is here
-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@Hotmail.com), January 19, 2004.
I like watching the "Ancient Evidence" series on Discovery (?) channel. I watched the one on David and Goliath, where the scientists speculated on whether Goliath suffered from Gigantism (I forget the Latin name) and showing its associated medical problems which begs the question of whether David was actually the one with the disadvantage, in the fight, not the other way around.I like it when they actually find historical evidence of events told in the Bible.
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 19, 2004.
I forget the Latin name
-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@hotmail.com), January 19, 2004.
Thanks Bill!
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), January 19, 2004.
Eugene, as Catholics are not fundamentalists, we are not required to take this story literally. And just because I don't take it literally doesn't mean that I don't think SOMETHING of the kind happened.From newadvent.org:
"The text of Genesis (viii, 4) mentioning Mount Ararat is somewhat lacking in clearness, and that nothing is said in the Scripture concerning what became of the Ark after the Flood. Many difficulties have been raised, especially in our epoch, against the pages of the Bible in which the history of the Flood and of the Ark is narrated. This is not the place to dwell upon these difficulties, however considerable some may appear. They all converge towards the question whether these pages should be considered as strictly historical throughout, or only in their outward form. The opinion that these chapters are mere legendary tales, Eastern folklore, is held by some non-Catholic scholars; according to others, with whom several Catholics side, they preserve, under the embroidery of poetical parlance, the memory of a fact handed down by a very old tradition. This view, were it supported by good arguments, could be readily accepted by a Catholic; it has, over the age-long opinion that every detail of the narration should be literally interpreted and trusted in by the historian, the advantage of suppressing as meaningless some difficulties once deemed unanswerable."
-- AVC (littleflower1976@yahoo.com), January 19, 2004.
Btw, Eugene, if everyone died except Noah and his family, then how would other cultures have left eyewitness accounts of the flood?
-- AVC (littleflower1976@yahoo.com), January 19, 2004.
Maybe because those cultures decended from Noah and his family? Eyewitness testemony may have been a bad term to use, mor like racial memory, or oral hisotry pased down...Remember, their ancestors where Noah and his family too.
-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), January 19, 2004.
Yes; all the human race will have known of that disaster as a tradition brought down by their fathers. Going back to the families descended from Noah. Who better to preserve the memory of a new beginning on the face of the earth? After all; we all are descendents of Adam. Noah is a stepping- stone back to Adam and Eve. And Noah witnessed the flood and God's power in person.
-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 20, 2004.
I find that folks often forget that a story can be both a historical reality and a mythological/poetic device. I tend towards believing in a world wide flood, but there is also some poetry going on here. I saw a display once of the Hebrew that showed the passage had each line starting witht the next letter of the alphabet a. . .z . . .a and back again. Of course it only went to 'm'. The central line was something like 'God remembered Noah' (I think, I am functioning from a five year old memory here.) There is no reason why this passage cna't be both a historical account of events put into a stylized form to make a point.Also, I once saw a list of all the cultures that have a flood myth in them. It was a long list of about 20. I would not trust that though because it was in a WatchTower.
Just my bloated opinion:
Dano
-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), January 20, 2004.
Amongst the Dead Sea Scrolls there are documents from various sects of the Jews living in Jerusalem before the year 70AD. They clearly view some of these stories as metaphors. Many of these sects used wording and expression that was once found exclusively in the Bible, hinting at the possibility that these were the Jews that the future Christians were aligned with before Christ. Some Creationists don't realize that if reality doesn't jib with their view of the Bible then perhaps they don't understand the writer.
-- Robyn Cain (adaire@aros.net), January 20, 2004.
Even if the Dead Sea Scrolls were truly the word of God, which we do not accept; any sects who disagreed with the literal events in Genesis would have respected the book. This plus the existence of real geological signs everywhere in the world makes the story of Noah plausible enough.Ironically, one of the objections of non-catholics to the books of Maccabees is an opinion held by many that they weren't inspired. Here we see the Dead Sea Scrolls cited as an authoritative source on Genesis!
Machabees stand plainly as accepted contemporary works in the Hebrew community, right up to the days of Christ and the apostles. They can't be disputed as real documents of their time. But the writers of the Dead Sea Scrolls weren't commenting on some recent event. Their words could hardly be authoritative regarding something in the primeval past.
-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 20, 2004.
What geological signs would those be?
-- AVC (littleflower1976@yahoo.com), January 21, 2004.
Scientists long have known of deep strata beneath the crust of today's land masses which are definite signs of a tremendous flood in primeval times. I have no worthwhile writings to cite, but a Google search might turn up examples for anyone interested.
-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 21, 2004.
Can you show me evidence of this, other than on a creationist Web site?
-- AVC (littleflower1976@yahoo.com), January 21, 2004.
Dear AVC,
Do a search via Google.com. as I suggested. Try flood +noah, and let us all know what the results were. I frankly don't know what it had to do with creationist websites.
-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 22, 2004.
what amuses me is how the protestants claim scripture only, only what is in the bible... then throw out SEVEN books, and then take in the dead sea scroll and those poopy four extra gospils...i just dont think i understand, it seems like hypocracy to me.
-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), January 22, 2004.
Because, Eugene, I think geological information from creationist Web sites is automatically suspect. And frankly, I'm not interested in doing your research for you. If you want to convince us all, why don't YOU show us some evidence?
-- AVC (littleflower1976@yahoo.com), January 22, 2004.
Simply because you asked that question, not I. Don't ask me convince a skeptic like yourself. I didn't even know creationist websites cited geological proof; since I don't frequent them.I only said some geologists along with the Genesis account make a prehistoric flood of universal reach very plausible. Pagan traditions support it as well. You seem to see it as implausible, and you're wrong.
-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 22, 2004.
the books the protestants 'threw' out don't matter either way, the old testament was for the jews. the new testament is for catholics
-- jr (none@nowhere.com), January 22, 2004.
Please Junior. leave a little work for the Holy Spirit. You know a lot, but sit still and give Him a chance to make some decisions. Just a little while; He might let you drive heaven and earth around later, when He gets tired. Go and do your homework before it gets late, Dear.
-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), January 23, 2004.