Where does man get his ideas of worship? Scriptures, of course.

How do men come to have traditions? The Apostles and those mentioned in the Scriptures.

Well, does man justify his traditions based on the Apostles and Scriptures to be valid?

What of those other traditions and what are they?

(I hope that we can list those traditions and their justifications.)

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2004

Answers

"The Last Supper" celebration

Jesus told us to do this in rememberance of Him. And, the Jews had been doing this before Christ appeared, but their understanding was not clear. They were actually celebrating the Passion of Christ before it actually happened.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 08, 2004.

Being from England yet travelling to America a few times a year it always amazes me the similarities and differences in church worship between the two.

There is far more 'fellowship and ...breaking of bread' in the States it seems than we have here. Also we seem to be far more formal in our dress and worship, which may or may not be a good thing.

Culture really does seem to dictate quite a bit of our traditions and worship, even when we are in the same Book.

-- Gillian Dickenson (Gilliantwin@msn.com), February 09, 2004.

and it seems I like the word 'seem' a lot.....*laughs*

-- Gillian Dickenson (Gilliantwin@msn.com), February 09, 2004.

Actually, I do get quite annoyed at the way some dress for church. Baggy pants, over-sized T-shirts, and scruffed up hair at church makes me wonder about the respect they are lacking for worship. But, at least, they are present to partake in the worship. I wonder if this is the norm here in this big island--America.

Do you all read the English Standard Bible there, Gillian? I do like that version.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2004.

"Baggy pants, over-sized T-shirts, and scruffed up hair "

That sounds alot like a teenager.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), February 09, 2004.

I can see rod's point, that is we should show respect to God by how we prepare ourselves to worship Him. However, I would also point out however, that it is probably more important to prepare ourselves spiritually to worship God. I am sure there are plenty of hipocrites in tailored suits going to a lot of church services. Also, we have to remember when we see people in baggy pants at church, they may still be in the seeking stage and not yet developed a full relationship with Jesus Christ. We certainly don't want to discourage those people from going to church, we probably need to accept them baggy pants and all.

-- James (stinkcat_14@hotmail.com), February 09, 2004.

Yes, I should be happy that they are in church.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2004.

David, that sounds like me on the weekend! *cringe*

Well rod, as in America people tend to use differing versions here. Yet strangely enough the English Standard version does not seem a popular choice. As for me, I am afraid I am an A.V. girl through and through.

God Bless

-- Gillian Dickenson (Gilliantwin@msn.com), February 09, 2004.

Wow Gillian, I do believe you are the first person I've seen laugh on this forum, besides myself.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), February 09, 2004.

Ok, I give. What is A.V.?

I laugh too, Luke. You just don't get my humor, you and the millions of readers out there.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 09, 2004.

dear Luke,

Well it does say " a merry heart doeth good like a medicine". Unfortunately not many people like taking medicine!

And rod, sorry, I meant the Authorised Version, a.k.a The KJV *smiling as I duck the rocks*

-- Gillian Dickenson (Gilliantwin@msn.com), February 10, 2004.

I don't know Rod, I'm thinking about starting a new thread to debate your claim of laughing.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), February 10, 2004.

Hi Luke.

It may not seem too obvious in these here forums, but I'm a jokester. I tend to be one of those humorous types that cracks a joke in order to get down to the nitty-gritty of an issue. My colleagues will laugh until they get the real meaning of my jokes. Then, they get real defensive. Uh, I call it honesty. Some call it "trouble making". Our faculty meetings can be a barrel of laughs, sometimes. I also manage to get myself in hot water with administrators. Some don't like being told they are wrong, but when my students are inflicted with unfair rules, I make a make stink of things. War wounds and all, it's worth the fight, sometimes. Usually, I keep to myself.

So, don't think too harshly of me. You are among the good guys and gals. Uh,.....Am I one of the good guys?

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 10, 2004.

Gillian,

What do you mean your an A.V. girl through and through? A KJV Onlyist?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), February 10, 2004.

Dear david,

I believe the Authorised Version to be the complete, unadulterated, infallible Word of God.

With all the differing versions of today I think it necessary to decide for oneself which of them is God's preserved Word, as promised in Psalm 12. Yet, whatever conclusion anyone honestly comes to regarding where God's Word now is, I have no problem with.

However, my own conclusion is that it is the A.V.

God Bless you my brother...

-- Gillian Dickenson (Gilliantwin@msn.com), February 11, 2004.

Gillian,

I also believe the KJV is the complete, unadulterated Word of God and believe in God's promise of preserving his Words. The KJV is what the church (not Roman organization, but true body of believers) widely accepts

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), February 11, 2004.

I don't appreciate your mocking me Ian.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), February 11, 2004.

So was the Geneva Bible, but you should have a look at it and try to understand the words, if you can call them words.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 11, 2004.

dear David,

God Bless you...

I find that the issue really is what manuscript evidence an individual, or a church, accepts. One has to do the research and decide for oneself which they honestly believe to be the preserved Word of God.

-- Gillian Dickenson (Gilliantwin@msn.com), February 12, 2004.

Hi Gillian

That is exactly what all the debates ultimately resort to. Who has the truth and based on what? How far back must we go for the textual proof and then we must go to the source of that proof--traditions which were handed down verbally. It gets very involved and very sensitive. I think that the honest believer will have to dig into the history and traditions for getting down to the nitty-gritty of the truth. How can we live in the truth when not even the Holy Bibles are identical?

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 12, 2004.

Seeking the truth is like relating to the "Big Bang" Theory. If we could run the video backwards, we would see the beginning and know the truth. Take all the things ever written in Scriptures and trace them back to the original event, we then can see why we have what we have today. Or, take all of the splinters and glue them back together to see what it was to start with. That would be the Church. That would be Jesus Christ. That would be God.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 12, 2004.

Dave

did i mock you on this thread? don't think so.

maybe you mean the Mel Gibson thread. if so, sorry. i thought it was funny but i see your point too.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), February 13, 2004.

dear rod,

yes, that is why it is important to know 'why' you believe what you believe and 'why' you trust whichever 'Bible' you have.

I do not think God has left us unable to know such things, yet each man must be fully persuaded in his own mind for his own conclusions.

I am persuaded on my conclusions, yet if they differ from another's, so be it. We all have access to the same information.

God Bless you rod

-- Gillian Dickenson (Gilliantwin@msn.com), February 13, 2004.

Hi Gillian.

Gillian wrote: "We all have access to the same information. "

Do we? I wonder about that, too. I think that the information is out there, but we rely on our religious leaders to provide that modern-day information. I have to consider the people who compiled it and the information that was not accepted. Generally, we must have faith in Matthew, Luke, Mark, John, and the others. Consider Paul and his interjection of doctrine. We then must have faith in the church that we attend and the religious leader with his doctrines and theologies. That's a lot of faith to consider in men.

How many people will go see Mel Gibson's movie and sense that the truth will be accurate? How many people call themselves a Christian/Catholic yet know very little about anything of their faith? How "Christians" actually have false beliefs? And, what brought them to such error? Religious leaders with their false teachings? But, the information is out there and is it really up to the individual to bring it all into focus and understand it with infallibility? That's a tough reality in my most humble opinion.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), February 13, 2004.

Rod, now you know why God will hold our leaders under stricter judgement. In a way, the shephards and clergy of our religious bodies hold the members' souls in their hands. I wonder if the many jumping into seminary schools realize this.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), February 13, 2004.

dear rod,

I believe we do all have access to the same information, it is just a matter of researching. And yes, I believe no man or teaching is without some error somewhere, including myself. Yet I would trust that if someone wishes to teach then they have studied for themselves what they believe to be true. We are to "search the scriptures" as Jesus said, and do as the bereans did in Acts 17 who "searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so."

God Bless you...

-- Gillian Dickenson (Gilliantwin@msn.com), February 14, 2004.

dear Luke,

I agree with you 100%. James says "My brethren, be not many masters (teachers), knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation." (also Jer. 50:2, Ezk. 34:2 etc. where the shepherds lead the flock astray)

God Bless you...

-- Gillian Dickenson (Gilliantwin@msn.com), February 14, 2004.