The Better Way

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Hello,

Since I am civilly divorced, but sacramentally married, my union with my estranged spouse is indissoluble. So ironically, my sacramental marriage calls for me to follow a life of chaste celibacy. Believe it or not (ha ha), this is a rather difficult concept to sell to my fellow travelers similarly situated.

Where does Saint Paul describe chaste celibacy as "The Better Way." Are there any other teachings in Scripture or Catholic Tradition about this concept being the better way, and why.

Looking forward to your input.

God bless you all.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), February 09, 2004

Answers

Punt!

-- Pat Delaney (pat@bumparoo.net), February 09, 2004.

Believe it or not (ha ha), this is a rather difficult concept

Pat, I enjoy your posts for the most part, even though I don't always agree. I must tell you, though, in a spirit of charity, that this is no laughing matter. This is serious stuff, and will bear on the eternal disposition of your soul.

-- jake (j@k.e), February 09, 2004.


Pat,

I do not envy you. Read 1 Cor 7. Paul has some good advice. I am certainly no expert, and I don't know the details of your civil divorce, but if your wife said her vows in bad faith you may have cause for an annulment. My understanding is that because the sacrament of marriage is administered by both the husband and wife that if one is not entering into the sacrament under the correct conditions, that the sacrament was never properly administered and thus you may not actually be married in a sacramental sense. You may have already checked this out with your local diocese. I will pray for you.

-- Andy (aszmere@earthlink.net), February 09, 2004.


So Pat , you're officially divorced ,

so that means , your a free man and you may marry again !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 09, 2004.



To Chaste Celibate Pat:


First Epistle of Saint Paul to the Corinthians, Chapter 7


Now in regard to the matters about which you wrote:

"It is a good thing for a man not to touch a woman,"

but because of cases of immorality every man should have his own wife, and every woman her own husband. The husband should fulfill his duty toward his wife, and likewise the wife toward her husband. A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife. Do not deprive each other, except perhaps by mutual consent for a time, to be free for prayer, but then return to one another, so that Satan may not tempt you through your lack of self-control. This I say by way of concession, however, not as a command.

Indeed, I wish everyone to be as I am (a virgin),

but each has a particular gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.

Now to the unmarried and to widows, I say: it is a good thing for them to remain as they are, as I do,

but if they cannot exercise self-control they should marry, for it is better to marry than to be on fire. To the married, however, I give this instruction (not I, but the Lord): a wife should not separate from her husband -- and if she does separate she must either remain single or become reconciled to her husband -- and a husband should not divorce his wife. To the rest I say (not the Lord): if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she is willing to go on living with him, he should not divorce her; and if any woman has a husband who is an unbeliever, and he is willing to go on living with her, she should not divorce her husband. For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy. If the unbeliever separates, however, let him separate. The brother or sister is not bound in such cases; God has called you to peace. For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband; or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Only, everyone should live as the Lord has assigned, just as God called each one. I give this order in all the churches.

Was someone called after he had been circumcised? He should not try to undo his circumcision. Was an uncircumcised person called? He should not be circumcised. Circumcision means nothing, and uncircumcision means nothing; what matters is keeping God's commandments.

Everyone should remain in the state in which he was called.

Were you a slave when you were called? Do not be concerned but, even if you can gain your freedom, make the most of it. For the slave called in the Lord is a freed person in the Lord, just as the free person who has been called is a slave of Christ. You have been purchased at a price. Do not become slaves to human beings.

Brothers, everyone should continue before God in the state in which he was called.

Now in regard to virgins, I have no commandment from the Lord, but I give my opinion as one who by the Lord's mercy is trustworthy. So this is what I think best because of the present distress: that it is a good thing for a person to remain as he is.

Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek a separation.

Are you free of a wife? Then do not look for a wife.

If you marry, however, you do not sin, nor does an unmarried woman sin if she marries; but such people will experience affliction in their earthly life, and I would like to spare you that.

I tell you, brothers, the time is running out. From now on, let those having wives act as not having them, those weeping as not weeping, those rejoicing as not rejoicing, those buying as not owning, those using the world as not using it fully. For the world in its present form is passing away.

I should like you to be free of anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord, how he may please the Lord.

But a married man is anxious about the things of the world, how he may please his wife, and he is divided.

An unmarried woman or a virgin is anxious about the things of the Lord, so that she may be holy in both body and spirit.

A married woman, on the other hand, is anxious about the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

I am telling you this for your own benefit, not to impose a restraint upon you, but for the sake of propriety and adherence to the Lord without distraction.

If anyone thinks he is behaving improperly toward his virgin, and if a critical moment has come and so it has to be, let him do as he wishes. He is committing no sin; let them get married.

The one who stands firm in his resolve, however, who is not under compulsion but has power over his own will, and has made up his mind to keep his virgin, will be doing well.

So then, the one who marries his virgin does well;

the one who does not marry her will do BETTER.

A wife is bound to her husband as long as he lives. But if her husband dies, she is free to be married to whomever she wishes, provided that it be in the Lord.

She is more blessed, though, in my opinion, if she remains as she is, and I think that I too have the Spirit of God.



-- ytqazlcws (ytq@azl.cws), February 09, 2004.



Laurent,

You sound like the devil himself ... giving evil advices.

-- ytqazlcws (ytq@azl.cws), February 09, 2004.


Jake,

Thanks for the input. Perhaps I do come across as a little too light- hearted. Too much caffiene I think perhaps. But please do know, I am totally serious about trying to live a sanctified life.

I really do try to find the middle ground. So without being silly, I'm just not in any way somber about it.

God bless,

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), February 09, 2004.


Qwerty person (J?), thanks too. Yes, I am CC, not by choice exactly. In a way I guess I have my wife to thank. But I also know (through sad and regretable experiences) that I would die on the inside if I were not living rightly.

That quote is on point and quite uplifting. Muchas Gracias.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), February 09, 2004.


You sound like the devil himself ... giving evil advices.

-- ytqazlcws

Why is it evil advice I gave ??

I don't think you will divorcing someone for fun , of course for some weirdo exceptions maybe ==> Britney Spears ,(publicity stunt) !!

Britneys'marriag elicense www.mk- magazine.com/news/archives/000745

http://ww w.passionofbritney.com/archives/jan2004.html 4 januari 2004

Well , if you're married with someone , who violates you (doministic violence) every day in & out , you gonna stay at this person until the day you die ?? __ Or the partner , (a guy) is going to the ladies of pleasures , or the partner commits everyday fornication !!??

My dad said once to me , if you marry someone , than that person is your partner for rest of your life , no matter what !! (????)

Well , I have a cousin , she get married , that guy , on the first wedding-night , he was sleeping with his boyfriend !! __ So that marriage was already fake as it could be !!!! __ But yes , she must stay , 'cause marry to him , at least that's what my dad said !!

Well , I said , NO , it will destroys both their lives !!

You know , 'cause she asked for a (and is) divorce(d) , my dad said also , we were not allowed to visite her , 'cause of the divorce !! __ So , that is A REAL IDIOT STUPID VISION !!!!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 09, 2004.


Laurent,,

__if a divorced man marries again, he's committing adultery and so is the new woman; get it?? __adultery -- bad -- very bad!!

-- ytqazlcws (ytq@azl.cws), February 09, 2004.



Poor, Ignorant Laurent,

Just because some is "legally" divorced does not mean that their marriage ends in the eyes of the Church. Pat here is a shining example of someone who takes his faith very seriously, even to the point where he will stay chaste the rest of his life. I think that is awesome.

Also Laurent there are grounds under which the Church can proclaim a marriage as invalid because of certain circumstances. The marriage is unbreakable if it is a valid marriage.

Pat 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8 will help too.

-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), February 09, 2004.


A wife does not have authority over her own body, but rather her husband, and similarly a husband does not have authority over his own body, but rather his wife

Excuse me ??

For the unbelieving husband is made holy through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is made holy through the brother. Otherwise your children would be unclean, whereas in fact they are holy. If the unbeliever separates, however, let him separate. The brother or sister is not bound in such cases; God has called you to peace. For how do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband; or how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?

Sorry , that sounds like nonsens !!

Also , I'm a non believer , so you're actually saying , I never can get marry ??

Actually , I disagree with your whole reply !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 09, 2004.


__if a divorced man marries again, he's committing adultery and so is the new woman; get it?? __adultery -- bad -- very bad!!

-- ytqazlcws

No , if you're not married anymore , how .... ??

However , if you're free and having affair with a married someone , than you're stupid !!

Agree , adultery , is stupid !!!!

To Scott: what in the cases if you only have civil marriage ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 09, 2004.


Also Laurent there are grounds under which the Church can proclaim a marriage as invalid because of certain circumstances. The marriage is unbreakable if it is a valid marriage.

Yes , I knew that already !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 09, 2004.


Laurent,,

[[[[__the divorced man,, .... in the eyes of God,, && in the eyes of the Church is STILL married to the original wife!! .... just because he got a divorce paper from the government of (enter name of country here)_____________doesn't mean that he is not married anymore!!!!]]]]

-- ytqazlcws (ytq@azl.cws), February 09, 2004.



So ytqazlcws ,

If the partner , each day , turns the life of her/his partner into a hell , get divorced , the partner is still "married" , no matter what , even the partner would be adolf hitler ?? __ Yes , I see fornication !! __ Oh man , why you just make it so hard for yourself ?? __ Without religion , "this" problem didn't exists !! __ If caught my wife in bed with someone else , well she make keep that b*st*rd , I throw them both out at once , NAKED !!!!

What would you do if you caught your partner with someone else ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 09, 2004.


The solemn vow was "for better or for worse, in good times and in bad". That about covers it.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 09, 2004.

"Also, I'm a non believer, so you're actually saying I never can get married?"

Guess what laurent, in the eyes of God you can't get married.

If you actually try to get married then you are promising God that you will be with your partner till death. Since you are a non beleiver then your marriage will be invalid because your promise is no promise at all. So please, don't call it a marriage but use the term "unlawful union". That will suit your situation much better.

-- D Joseph (nufiedufie@msn.com), February 09, 2004.


@ -- D Joseph (nufiedufie@msn.com)

So , you're saying , even with have civil marriage , you will (don't have) not (to) stay with your wife ?? __ Or even a civil marrige doesn't count for real ?? __ Unlawful Union ?? __ Once you have signed the contract , you have to deal/live with it !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), February 10, 2004.


Contracts can be undone. Half of marriage contracts are. A Sacrament cannot be undone.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), February 10, 2004.

Laurent,

All I'm saying is that a "marriage" that is not lawful in God's eyes should not be called marriage because that would not suit its definition. It would be a man made union that should have a name for itself.

And no laurent, if it is proven invalid by the Catholic Church then you would not have to remain with your partner. That would be called an Annulment. I'm sure there are threads in this forum that deal with this.

-- D Joseph (nufiedufie@msn.com), February 10, 2004.


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