My Baptist friend, who has hit me with a number of anti-Catholic remarks over the years, went to see The Passion of the Christ. She stopped by to speak with me today, stunned, emotional, loved, redeemed...she reached out to point at the cruficix around my neck and began saying she now understood why "you guys" revere the cross with the Body of Jesus on it. How it's not just all about the empty cross and the Resurrection, how His suffering was for each and every one of us. Then she leaned forward and said how she never realized how important and wonderful Mary was, how much she loved, how much she played in the whole Redemption, how her "yes" was so important to all of us. PRAISE BE TO GOD! I was so stunned and amazed at her love and gentleness and absolute lack of attack on "oh you Catholics". The Holy Spirit is doing amazing things. Now next time, I need to ask her about the Last Supper and work up the nerve to invite her to Mass!

A second comment: at our business, my dear non-believer husband allowed me to put up this message on our readerboard (seen by several thousand cars a day): "Cindy challenges you to go see the Passion movie." The local newspaper called up for a quote, and mentioned that several churches were planning sermons on The Passion this coming Sunday. My reply was for him to check out a Mass, any day, any time, and he would REALLY experience how Catholics revere the Passion at every Mass.

A third comment: I have been praying for my husband's conversion for years. My Baptist friend teased him about the movie and offered to have her husband take my husband to the movie...and he agreed! I was jumping up & down for joy outside the office as they visited. I am trying to be a 1 Peter 3 wife (witness without a word), so wasn't going to invite him or discuss the movie much at home.

The Lord will show Himself strong!

God bless, Cindy Brown

-- Cindy Brown (cindybrown@gorge.net), February 26, 2004

Answers

Nice post, Cindy!

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45@Hotmail.com), February 26, 2004.

AWESOME! AWESOME! AWESOME!!!! I have tears in my eyes! PRAISE THE LORD Cindy, PRAISE THE LORD :)

-- Jason (Enchanted fire@aol.com), February 28, 2004.

I am a Baptist and I always will be with that being said and putting our petty diffrnces aside. I too have a new respect for Mary after watching this movie. She truly had to be an awesome woman and to watch her son be done like that had to be terrible. Praise the lord for Mr. Gibson for having the guts to make a movie like that.........

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), February 29, 2004.

John Page, Sir,
Tell us please, if you can: The other children of Mary-- Christ's 'brethren''--

We see nobody answering that description at the foot of Jesus' cross. If He had brothers and sisters, they were conspicuous by their absence right there, don't you think?

Whereas, the holy apostle John heard Our Lord say to Mary-- ''Woman, behold thy son,'' and to him, ''Son, behold thy mother;''

And from that hour the disciple took her into his home, (John 19:26, 27). Catholics were taught from the start, Mary is a Virgin forever; yet gave birth to Our Saviour. She had no other children. Scripture bears this truth out here; emphatically.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 29, 2004.

Mr Chavez, glad to hear from you my friend. I am not and do not pretend to be an expert on the Bible I think that was James with Mary at the cross and I thought the Bible said that James was Jesus brother. I don't know why you asked me that and I want you to no I meant no disrespect in my earlier post. All I meant was that I see Mary in a diffrent lite now.... The movie really made me think on this subject alot. I always have had respect fo Mary don't get me wrong I mean who wouldn't she is the Mother of the Lord and Savior. I swear to you I was not trying to be mean or ugly I simply meant what I posted.

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), February 29, 2004.

Was it John or James with Mary at the foot of the cross. I always thought it was John and now I hear people saying it was James.

Also, would like to comment, I loved the 'look' of Mary. She looked like an older woman, a mother who is suffering at the site of her son. She has dark hair and dark eyes. Most statues and pictures of Mary don't make her look human - almost like a barbie doll...blond hair, blue eyes and this is the way most people want Mary to look.

Somehow, I don't believe she looked like that, just like I don't believe that Jesus had light hair and blue eyes...I guess their physical appearance is not important, is it?

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), February 29, 2004.

Hi Marylu,

Yes, you're right, it was John the disciple. Everyone else split the scene, except of course, our blessed Mother and Mary Magdalene.

Wasn't the actress who played her part splendid? I saw her interviewed and she is a lovely Jewish woman. Let us pray that she will come to know our Lord and Savior.

John, it is so good to hear your words concerning our Mother. She is your Mother too, in the Lord of course. Can you imagine how important we are to her, because of her son? She must value every conversion just like her son does. Because she knows it was for us he died, it was for us that he was pierced, it was for us that he faced the hordes of hell. It is for this reason that she has been called our "heavenly prayer warrior." She is a Queen because HE IS THE KING! She prays for us, her children, because it pleases her precious son, and makes His work most effecacious!

The Church teaches that Mary's body did not suffer decay, that she was assumed into heaven. After Jesus's ascension, John the disciple took Mary to Ephesus and there they lived. You see, her body was never found, and naturally if there had been a burial site it would have been hugely popular to the 1st generation Christians. They built memorials, and kept relics of those people closest to the Lord. And yet, nothing of Mary! Of course, our Lord would retrieve His precious mother and give her the honor due her for her monumental sacrifice in the plan of salvation. Why in the world wouldn't He have? After all, that's his mum!

Blessed be our Lord Jesus Christ, Our Redeemer!

-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), February 29, 2004.

When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son." Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. -John 19:26-27

The 'beloved deciple' as described throughout the Gospel of John is John, not James. Also it would not have made any sense for Jesus to tell His mother to behold His blood brother. This is important because it shows that James was not Jesus' blood brother. To entrust His mother to a deciple when his blood brother was alive would have been scandalous. No such scandal errupted though. So James the Less is not Jesus' blood brother.

I hope this clears things up.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), February 29, 2004.

Dear John Page,
Please don't think my words were meant to be discouraging. You've been a fine contributor here, and my question was only for your honest contemplation as a faithful Baptist. I mean by this question to appeal to you who have been taught in Baptist Sunday School; to reconsider some things that have unfortunately passed for biblical teaching.

You're taught many distorted interpretations of holy scripture from the Bible. Such as, Mary had other children (? ? ? ) The Catholic Church has always known and taught all the truth; not just about Jesus and His Holy Gospel; but about His family. Catholics revere and love Jesus, Mary and Joseph, as THE HOLY FAMILY. We know all the truth about Jesus' Holy Family; as you've seen it in The Passion.

If there had truly been younger brothers or sisters in Our Lord's own family, we would know this through His Church. There could be NO WAY the Catholic Church would hide the truth from me and you, because she is guided in all truth by the Holy Spirit. He can neither deceive nor be deceived, John. He has always given us the whole truth in the Catholic Church.

What's more, and such a joy to us here; the Holy Spirit gave you new insights into His truth this week by taking you to see that wonderful movie. You've responded in Christian love to the truth about our Blessed Mother the Holy Virgin. I've only tied to HELP. Don't be offended, please. --Allelujah and praises to God; we all thank Him for blessing you this day!

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), February 29, 2004.

Mr Chavez, Thanks for the kind words I sure do appreciate them. After further review I see I said James was at the foot of the cross and I meant to say John sorry about that. As a Baptist I am taught that the Bible is the inspired and true word of GOD and I'm also taught it is without error. I know some of how Catholics believe but not enough to comment on it witout sounding stupid with all that being said when the Bible say's James was Jesus's brother I have to believe that for the truth. Now I ask you what according to the way you believe what does it mean when the Bible say's James was Jesus's brother? I am not asking so we can argue I really want to know what that means or should I say what you were taught that it means. As far as Mary I have always held her in high regard there is no doubt in my mind that she was a special woman an awesome woman for the Great GOD of heaven to pick her to have his Son. I have never and will never disrespect her but at the same time I can't pray for her to intervene on my behalf when Jesus said "I am the way,the truth and the light no one comes to the father but by me" That is where I get confused about anyone but Jesus intervening for me. Well I must go for now but I want you folks to know something you are fine people and I really enjoy these conversations and believe it or not Ive learned a few things talking with you. I wish you nothing but the best and hope that we can keep up this good dialog. May the Lord bless you, John

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), March 01, 2004.

One more thing I do type with paragraphs but when I submit my answers it doesn't seem to show that.... Sorry...............

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), March 01, 2004.

One more thing I do type with paragraphs but when I submit my answers it doesn't seem to show that.... Sorry about that.

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), March 01, 2004.

John, If you want to show a break in paragraphs, hit the return key twice instead of once. Hope this helps.

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), March 01, 2004.

Dear John:
You'll find the correct answers to all the questions you pose here; without ever needing to lose faith in the written scriptures. The scriptures are from God straight to his Holy Church; which we know is the New Testament today. There can be NO conflict between our Holy Bible and Christ's one true Church. Both proceed from the same infinite Wisdom and Truth, through Jesus Christ. Jesus says to all men: ''A house that's divided against itself cannot stand.'' Therefore, the Bible, which came into the Church from God, has no way it can argue against the Church, or the other way around. Christ only founded ONE Church. From His Church proceeds all the grace in the world; Baptism which a Baptist must believe, and the Bible, which Baptists must believe. Truth is in His Church because He sent her the Holy Spirit; a Comforter and Advocate. Nothing contrary to God's truth can get by His Holy Spirit.

The truths you seek; about Jesus' brethren; and about prayer from us to the saints in heaven to Jesus; all these can be resolved perfectly here, if you are willing to hear.

I want to give my friends in the forum a chance to communicate some of them to you instead of taking control of this thread. They have a right to speak for Jesus too.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), March 01, 2004.

John,

There is a lot of evidence in Scripture that Jesus had no blood brothers.

Because neither Hebrew nor Aramaic (the language spoken by Christ and his disciples) had a special word meaning "cousin," speakers of those languages used either the word for "brother" or a circumlocution, such as "the son of the sister of my father." But circumlocutions are clumsy, so the Jews used "brother." When the words were translated into the Greek for the New Testament, the word ‘brother’ was used to keep the original syntax in place, however the authors at the time knew that the term did not mean ‘blood bother’.

As I mentioned before, that Jesus put His mother into the care of a non-relative is very significant. If Jesus’ blood brother were alive it would have been scandalous for Jesus to do such a thing given the Jewish traditions of the time. No such scandal erupted though. So James the Less is not Jesus' blood brother he must be some other relation to Jesus.

This is confirmed when we realize that the word used in the New Testament for brother is also used for cousin or, in fact, any relative, and sometimes not a relative.

For more information see this article .

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 01, 2004.

The article is here< /a>.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 01, 2004.

Just some more tidbits on "Mary".

Maia Morgenstern was cast. Later they found out that Morgenstern means "Morning Star". She was pregnant during the shooting of the Passion, and gave birth 2 months after.

Maia was "found" by Gibson playing the part of a Jewish woman who bacame a nun (I forget the name of the movie).

She is amazing. Let us pray for her conversion!

What a testimony that will be.

In Christ.

-- Jake HUether (jake_huether@yahoo.com), March 01, 2004.

There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus’ siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’" He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Father’s house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me." Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted. To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mother’s sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me." This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." God’s will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers. Hello folks I have been doing research and reading my Bible in order to help my self understand Mary a little better and this is very intresting. I would like your thoughts an opinions on this please. Thanks in advance.

God Bless you, John

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), March 12, 2004.

John,

The passage you quote was written centuries before Christ was born, and there is no reason to suppose that it is a prophecy of the Messiah. It was a lamentation of David over his personal sin, nothing more. If one verse of this psalm refers to Christ, then the whole psalm must refer to Him, since it is one continuous prayer - wouldn't you agree? Verse 11 says that he has repented in sackcloth. Could that be a reference to Jesus? In verse 28 he asks God to blot his enemies out of the Book of Life. That is an obvious response of an ordinary man under persecution, not something the Savior of the world would say. In verse 29 he hopes for salvation. Would Christ need to make such a request? In verse 30 he says "I will priase you in song" - obviously David who is speaking here. There are a number of other verses which clearly show that this psalm is a personal prayer of David to God, and has no reference to Jesus Christ. Therefore, the fact that David was estranged from his family because of his public sins has no relevance to Christ. Perhaps most telling is verse 5, which you quoted - "God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee." Here David refers to the sins he has commited, which brought disgrace upon himself and his family. I you are going to use this psalm as evidence that Jesus had siblings, then you must also conclude that Jesus was a public sinner who was repenting and begging God for forgiveness. The same speaker here makes both statements in reference to himself. You can't just pick out convenient lines from the text when those particular lines, removed from context, could be made to appear as references to Christ. Unfortunately, that is an all too common approach to Protestant exegesis. It isn't valid.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 12, 2004.

Paul thanks for your response. I have been really sucked in to this whole Mary thing for a while now and have been really working hard on understanding more by researching and reading my Bible and I came across that little tid -bit of information and wanted someone of the Catholic Faith to tell me how you would read and understand that.

I am not coming to your forum claiming to be all knowing on how you should beleive only coming here for more in depth knowledge on the diffrences between our two faiths and trying to figure out what is right and what is wrong. Instead of me taking something from the Bible and looking at it from my point of view I also was intrested in the Catholic piont of view and wanting to be fair in that.

Take care and GOD Bless

John

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), March 12, 2004.

Wow. I'm overwhelmed with the amount of faith that I read in the posts from our Catholic friends. As a Pentecostal, I have to say that I appreciate the outpouring of praises woven through the posts I've read today. God IS awesome, and He deserves all our praise!

I kind of stumbled on your site, and I wanted to talk about the issue of Mary being a virgin. Initially, like the Baptist gentleman, I don't claim to know all about the Catholic faith, and I'm genuinely curious about this subject.

1. I see no reason scripturally that Mary has to be a virgin to support the Christian faith. I understand that Catholics pray to Mary to intercede for them with God, but why does she have to be a virgin for this to happen? (I want to know why her virginity is so vital.)

2. In Matthew 1:25, the Bible says, "And [Joseph] knew her not TILL she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus." Regardless of whether or not there were children produced from the union (scripturally, I believe there were), this text states that while Mary was a virgin at the time of Christ's birth, she did not remain one.

Thanks for the opportunity to post! I hope I can check back tomorrow or Monday for some answers.

God bless you all!

-- Melissa Fross (simmie1228@yahoo.com), March 19, 2004.

Dear Melissa,

I suggest that you check past discussions on this forum, such as this thread on Perpetual Virginity. Other discussions on Mary can be found here.

If you would like to ask further questions after reading, or want clarification, I suggest starting a new thread, as your question is not really directly related to the Passion movie. This way, you can choose to have responses emailed directly to you if you wish. You can do this by visiting the Catholic home page and clicking on the "Ask a Question" link near the top.

God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), March 19, 2004.

You hear so many postive reactions from non Catholics to Mel Gibson's movie that I think the Lord is using it as a means to drive Catholics and Non-Catholics closer. It will be a great day when all Christians will become "one flock under one Pastor"

Let us pray for the coming of such a day.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), March 21, 2004.

Melissa and John,

Welcome to this site. I think you are in the right place to learn quite a bit. I am an Episcopalian who is to be confirmed into the Catholic faith in April. The past 6 months, I have educated myself through talks with my Catholic wife, RCIA, internet sites, books, Bible reading, and this great site. The more I learn the more I am embarrassed and saddened to see where I came from. I wasnt aware of the Truth. I wasnt knowledgable about the most important part of life: Salvation and Faith.

I think catholics truly understand the Sacred. Protestants I dont believe do. Mary is a great example of this divergence. Mary's womb carried Our Lord. Her womb is a sacred tabernacle like the Ark of the Covenant. It could not be violated by mere mortals. What kind of people would sully such a sacred place? Mary and Joseph were not "normal" people like us. They were very special and thus made sacrifices. See this link for a good explanation re Brethren of Christ:http://www.catholic.com/library/Brethren_of_the_Lord.asp.

This sacred divergence can also be seen in the Real Presence at Eucharist. It also is seen in praying to Mary or the Saints. Speaking to God directly should be very intimidating but as a protestant I never felt that way. I understand that Mary is much more approachable and that She can lay my sometimes convoluted prayers at God's feet. I still pray directly to God (so do most Catholics) but I understand the Catholic stance.

I would strongly encourage you both to read catholic.com website info. It will address many misconceptions. It will help you put aside any bigotry you might have been taught and it might even convert you.

-- David F (notanaddress@nowhere.com), March 21, 2004.

David F. Are you going to be admitted in the Catholic Church on the Easter Vigil like it was with the Catechumens in the first centuries? CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Your acceptance will have this way a special meaning. }Please don't forget to let us know what emotions, ideas, feelings, etc you'll be through on that blessed day.

Meanwhile be certain of my prayers for you.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), March 22, 2004.

Thanks Enrique,

I will be confirmed on the Easter vigil. The Bishop will not be here but as I was baptized non-catholic, the priest will confirm me. I am in the US Navy and as you can imagine the Bishop of the armed services can't be in all places at once. The baptized catholics in my RCIA will be confirmed in May as the Bishop must confirm them.

-- David F (notanaddress@nowhere.com), March 22, 2004.

So you are already baptized. I din't get from your post. Anyway it will be a great day for you to recieve the fullness of the spirit on that blessed night.

congratulations once again.

I'll be praying for you

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), March 23, 2004.

Hi all hope everything is well. Just one question I see above where Catholics pray to Mary for intercession but in 2ND Timothy VS 5 The Holy Bible clearly states that there is one GOD and one Mediator between GOD and men that being CHRIST JESUS. It does not say there are two only one. I would like your thoughts on this verse

Thanks In Advance, GOD BLESS, John

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), March 26, 2004.

David F.

With respect to you I come. I am not a bigot I have not been taught to be a bigot I am a christian first and foremost I hold no ill will towards anyone be it Catholics, Jews, or otherwise. I do not think that because you are a Catholic your going to Hell but many catholics will tell me that I am.

I like this board and the many discussions I have had here and have come to understand certain things a little better. I stand firm in my Faith and will not waver and will never convert because I beleive what I beleive to be true. I am happy you have found what you were looking for in the Catholic faith and wish you many years of happiness and pray for the LORDS will to be done in your life.

Take Care and God Bless, John

-- John Page (johnnyrnr@yahoo.com), March 26, 2004.

John,
Read the thread Praying through Mary To God

In it you will find a number of answers including the recent post from Hubert:
Yes, "one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" but potentially countless mediators/intercessors between any of us men and the man Christ Jesus. That's why St. Paul told St. Timothy (exactly in the four previous verses to 1 Tim 2:5), "First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 27, 2004.