Virtually all my catholic friends support abortion and homosexuality. They think I'm a kook for being a born-again Christian. Why is this?

-- Joe Thornton (mrprotestant97@yahoo.com), March 02, 2004

Answers

I don't know any catholics that support abortion and homosexuality...at least not in my generation of catholics..I think you jest just to start trouble.

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), March 02, 2004.

No-one who is a genuine Catholic supports homosexuality or abortion. You can't be Catholic while rejecting the teaching of the Catholic Church. It is accepting and living the truth of the Church that makes you Catholic. Incidentally, Catholics were born again Christians for 1500 years before the term was adopted by manmade denominations.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 02, 2004.

They are not catholics. They are pseudocatholics.

-- J. Fernandes (goananda@hotmail.com), March 02, 2004.

Joe,
Show your friends this:
voter's guide

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 02, 2004.

Joe,
Being a born-again Christian is a wonderful thing, and not something for you to be ashamed of. That your friends were baptised and have lapsed is nothing for them to be proud of. Pray for them, and when you have an opportunities witness to them. Take them to see The Passion of the Christ and when they leave the theater they will have questions. They may cut the movie down, so be prepared for that, but also be prepared for them to have some of their own space and be prepared for some tough questions. Read up on your Catholic catechism.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 02, 2004.

do your friends "support homo-ness [my word] and abortion", or do they support an individual's right to choose?

that (support of a persons right to choose) does not make them necessarily a liberal. it may not sit well with conservative christians, but again, it doesnt mean they are liberals!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- jas (jas_r_22@hotmail.com), March 03, 2004.

Jas,
That goes against the teachings of the Church. I don't know if I would call it liberal to go against the teachings of the Church, I would call it sinful.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 03, 2004.

The foundational principle of the liberal agenda is abolition of all restrictions on individual action - unlimited personal license masquerading under the guise of "freedom". This is the philosophy that has spawned all of the mindless "right to choose", "reproductive freedom", and unlimited "tolerance" propaganda (meaning unlimited tolerance for everything that fits the liberal agenda - liberals are completely closed-minded about everything else) that has systematically poisoned society for the past thirty years or more.

The Church fully supports every individual's right to choose. The Church has unfailingly preached the truth about human free will for 2,000 years, even while some other "Christian" churches have denied it. However, the Church is also subject to the divinely mandated solemn responsibility to clearly identify those choices which are objectively spiritually deadly, and those which foster spiritual life. Once such factual knowledge has been disseminated, the Church has fulfilled its responsibility to God and to the human race, and every individual is then free to choose - eternal damnation or eternal life. The Church has never suggested otherwise.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 03, 2004.

"once such factual knowledge has been disseminated"? does that mean, "once our moral beliefs become law so that everyone must abide by them"?

dont misinterpret this-- i am conservative and believe most people could use less anger, fornication, and greed in their life and more God (including moi). i think modern society is doing its best to kill the human spirit. (when was the last time anyone walked over to the neighbors just to sit and talk? does anyone KNOW their neighbors?)

however, i believe LOVE, on an individual basis, will do more than what morality laws could. didnt we have abortions BEFORE they were legal? of course!

but if we LOVE these people we know who are without morality, and without GOd, by showing mercy, understanding, and friendship, we are in the service of the Lord MUCH moreso than by simply voting (for a country club rich boy republican simply because that is the party financially supported by the religious right). it is this attitude that will get people back to God.

what was that song from grade school? "..and they will know we are christians by our love...."

(i now sense a disturbance in the force).

thank you

-- jas (jas_r_22@hotmail.com), March 03, 2004.

Jas, We had no where near the number of abortions before they were legal than we do today. It is really simply logic: make murder legal and you will have more murders. Make murder illegal and you will have less, but because of the fallen nature of man, you will not eliminate all murder. The arguement that we had abortions when they were illegal so we should keep them legal so we keep them in the limelite and make them less of a heath risk to the murdering mom, is a false, and IMHO, evil arguement.

STOP THE MURDERING

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson-nospam@hotmail.com), March 03, 2004.

ok-- point taken.

i used that as an example, but my argument was with things in mind other than abortion- runaway kids, drug use, prostitution, bullying, the whole gamit of issues that could be remedied with love between individuals.

as i re-read my previous message, i realize i warped the topic and began speaking more philosophically or idealistically. peace love and understanding are great but they perhaps not always realistic, "the fall of man" being one reason.

i bow out of this discussion, and unenthusiastically return to my watersheds and drainage problems (at least this project is for a catholic college!.

-- jas (jas_r_22@hotmail.com), March 03, 2004.

Jason

There are three things to do about abortion.

1) Proclaim the truth to the world that it is an objective moral EVIL. Proclaim it in a way that leaves no room for argument. Lay the facts out completely.

2) Make this evil illegal.

3) Love. Love everyone involved in the whole abortion mess. Love the victums, love the perpetraters, love the advocates, love the haters. Love, love love!

It is ridiculous to try to claim that only one of these is necessary. Any one of these on there own will fail. Just making it illegal won't do. It was illegal, but no one defended the truth and low and behold they changed the law. If we just love the dickens out of them they may take that asw approval. We need to do ALL THREE! Pro-lifers have gotten really good at number 1. That is why you never see abortion debates on TV anymore; we started winning. Now we need to make it illegal again. The purpose of the law is to protect the people. One third of new people are being murdered. We need to change the law. Finally, in all of this we love. And, yes we are doing this. If you ever get the chance to see an abortion debate you will be struck by the fact that the abortionists make one type of argument, the ad hominum attack. When those fail they chant to drown out the pro-life speaker. I've seen it innumerable times. All the while we politely but firmly assert the truth.

In the end the only thing that matters about the people we elect is how they are going to vote. How good they look doesn't matter. Are they a good speaker? Who cares. Are they wealthy or poor, irrelevant. If they are a fat cat funded by dorks, so what? All that matters is how they vote! That is there power and their duty, right there. Everything else is icing.

Abortion, with its 40 million victums in the US alone, is the single greatest attack on human life in the history of the world. Add together Hitler, Stalin and Mao, and you do not come remotely close to the mass slaughter of abortion. It must stop, it must stop now! Any politician who would supprot this evil is unworthy of votes.

Catholics can change all of this if they just vote 'Catholic'. They make up 25% of the american population, even higher in Canada. If just one in five Catholics started to vote like a Catholic North America would change. most elections are decided by a margin of about 5%. We can change the world with our votes. So it is your choice, vote for the greatest slaughter of humanity in history or vote against it. Your vote makes a difference.

By the way, if Catholics started voting Catholic, you can be sure there would be pro-life democrats popping up all over the place.

I have given the Voter's guide for serious Catholics once, Bill Nelson has given it three or four times (he knows html so it is even a link). Go there, share the guide.

Vote Catholic everyone - stop the murder!

In Christ,

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 03, 2004.

You posted while I was typing. You already adressed some of my concerns.

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 03, 2004.