Confession

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Why is the Catholic religion the only religion that requires us to confess our sins to another human being? I know that the Holy Spirit is present during confession, but why is this not required in other religions?

I guess I need an RCIA course because I sure feel dumb about my own religion. :)

MaryLu

-- MaryLu (mlc327@juno.com), March 15, 2004

Answers

The short answer is that the other Christians are wrong. The more I learn about the Catholic faith the more I am amazed that scripture reading validates Her.

John 20 20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the LORD. 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

Once again the sola scriptura crowd ignores yet another scripture which Catholics hold fast to.

-- David F (notanaddress@nowhere.org), March 15, 2004.


Actually Most Christains call everyone ot both Repentance and confession. Tne diffeence is that Confession is made to those you have wringed, or informally. It is not made in a confessional, spaificlaly to a preist.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 15, 2004.

Zarove said: Confession is made to those you have wringed, or informally.

Hi Zarove, While I agree that Protestants are often encouraged to apologize to others for some of the wrongs committed against them (and rightly so, as we all should be), this does not apply in all cases. There are some situations in which it would be inappropriate (eg. if you had a sinful thought about a person but never did anything to act on it) to tell the person. Or it could be impossible to apologize due to death or loss of communication ability with someone.

Or there are sins which one can commit within oneself, to whom there is no one to confess. I can think of several of these in my own life, and despite praying to God for forgiveness, I still felt a gnawing sense of wrong, as if the sin's guilt remained. This is not as it should be if God indeed forgave me, since God said when we are forgiven, He will cast our sins as far as the east is from the west and take them away from us. (Psalm 103:12, KJV: As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.) I believe this gnawing guilt that people feel is a result of the guilt of mortal sins. But confession to a priest is so liberating (so I hear).

Zarove, as I looked over this message I realized that you might take it the wrong way. My intention was to convey what I see to be a problems with the "Protestant model" of confession, not to attack your view.

God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), March 16, 2004.


It really is amazing how ready self-described "Bible Christians" are to completely ignore the words of Christ Himself to His Apostles - "Whose sins YOU forgive, they are forgiven them; whose sins YOU retain, they are held retained." (John 20:23) Could He have stated this more clearly? Of course, how this applies to the present day Church isn't clear unless you also recognize that the Apostles were the first priests of His Church.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 16, 2004.

to the above poster:

1) you ask: didnt Jesus die for our sins? the answer is yes.

2) you ask: why would you go to another sinner to confess? the answer is because Jesus, among others, prescribed it in the bible. if you ever read the book you'd know.

3) you make some reference to mary as being the mother of harlots. Jesus, according to the commandments, loved and honored his mother. Who are you, then, to slander her with such hatred? perhaps you should reflect on your relationship with Jesus and those who gave their lives in service to him before you presume to judge saints to be the mother of all harlots? HMMMNNN?

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 16, 2004.



One piece of the original question that has been missed: some other Christians DO have confession. All the Orthodox Churches have a valid Sacrament of Confession which they use. The Assyrian Church has it (these are the descendents of the Nestorians). The Anglican Church has Confession as well but they never use it. Luther himself wanted to keep confession but didn't think it was a sacrament so it very quickly went away.

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 16, 2004.


MaryLu,

David said it best, we confess our sins to the priest because that is what Jesus TOLD us to do. From a human perspective, it's harder to confess something out loud to someone else than it is to just pray it to God. I know it makes me reflect more fully on what I've done, as it's harder to admit to, if that makes sense, so I feel my confession is a more honest one than saying "sorry God" and moving on. There is also a bigger feeling of purification afterwards, since you *know* you've come clean with your sins to God, and through His sacrament, have been absolved of your sins.

Pure as the driven snow (for a few minutes after confession at least ;-) ),

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), March 16, 2004.


what a wicked lot, these men are, setting aside Gods word, for the sake of their traditions. No where in Gods word does Jesus specifically say, go to a cofessional booth and be absolved of sin. Gods word does make it clear, that faith in Jesus Christ cleanses the sinner of impurity. These people dont want the truth here, if it were so, they wouldn't delete threads and post, that refer to Gods truths.

-- They deny Gods word as they themselves are denied (truthisfreedom316@yahoo.com), March 16, 2004.

What part of "whose sins YOU FORGIVE, they are forgiven therm" (John 20:23) don't you understand? A "booth" is not required for sacramental confession. A priest IS required. How do you deal with the historical fact that all Christians confessed in the same manner for 1,500 years after Christ. By what authority do you now attempt to substitute modern traditions for ancient Christian truth?

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 16, 2004.

Paul,

Please don't respond to that poster. His name is Alex and he is permantley banned from this forum.

Ed will reconize him and take care of it. You run the risk of having your post[s] deleted for posting to him.

Thank you. :-)

-- - (David@excite.com), March 16, 2004.



"whose sins YOU FORGIVE, they are forgiven them" (John 20:23)

im not knocking confession, because i think its an excellent exercise for the soul and for one's character. however, does this bible passage really give way to the sacrament of reconciliation?

i would think jesus COULD have/WOULD have said: "...through you i grant the father's pardon...". something that at least HINTS to confession.

from the bible quote above, i think the institution of confession is a stretch.

-- jas (jas_r_22@hotmail.com), March 17, 2004.


Don't worry emily, I didnt se it as an attakc. However many Churches do have pastoral counsilign available, and peopel confess to the preachersof various chruches all the time. its just not s requirement in most as it is in Catholisism, nor is it so institutionalised.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 17, 2004.

John 20:23 clearly reveals the sacrament of confession because ...

- It involves a special empowerment of the Apostles. The verse says "He breathed on them". This is clearly symbolic of Jesus imparting His own Spirit in a special way, to empower the Apostles to do something they otherwise could not do. Something that is not humanly possible.

- Such empowerment for the forgiveness of sins is never given to any other individual, only to the Apostles - the only individuals who can clearly be identified as priests at that time.

- The power they received entails not only forgiveness of sins committed against them personally (which every Christian must forgive on a personal level), but ALL sins of other individuals. Personal forgiveness does not require a special commission and empowerment. Sacramental absolution does.

- The power they received includes not only absolution of sin, but also spiritual discernment concerning the appropriateness of absolution in any given case - "whose sins you hold retained, they are retained". Such a power was never given to any other individuals, just the shepherds of the Church, the Apostles.

- Such a profound empowerment would not have been given by Jesus unless He expected it to be used. However, Jesus did not empower the Apostles to read men's minds. Therefore the only possible way this special power could bear any fruit in the Church is by verbal confession of sinners to those empowered to absolve them.

You state: "i would think jesus COULD have/WOULD have said: "...through you i grant the father's pardon...".

That would be completely unnecessary. Jesus had already conferred the necessary power to THEM. He said "whose sins YOU forgive", It was clearly understood by all that the power involved was HIS power, not theirs. Only God can forgive sin. They knew this. So do we. So, the conferral of the power of absolution was not an alternative to God's forgiveness, but rather the means through which God chose to grant HIS absolution in HIS Church. On a broader level, Jesus had told them "without Me you can do nothing". They also knew this. They knew that all the miracles they had worked, all the souls they had converted, were by the power of God. This concept was the very essence of their apostolic ministry. It did not have to be specifically stated on this occasion.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 17, 2004.


Paul, in a previous post, you asked, "How do you deal with the historical fact that all Christians confessed in the same manner for 1,500 years after Christ.

I'd like to comment on that if I may. In the CEC, we also have the sacrament of Confession, but it's handled somewhat differently than in Catholicism, so it led me to do some research on the subject to better understand the historical basis of confession. Being an intelligent, well-researched man, I'm sure this is information that familiar to you, but I thought it interesting and hope that it adds to this discussion.

The bottom-line is that the theology and practice of confession has changed remarkably over the years, especially during the first six centuries or so. What is believed and practiced today, is very different than what the early church believed and practiced.

While I can't be thorough in all of the differences without cut and pasting material and boring everyone, I thought I could point out a few of the main points/changes. The biggest difference seems to be based on what kinds of sins one confessed and how they were confessed and absolved of those sins.

For the first centuries, most sins committed by believers required simply asking God for forgiveness and believing in faith that you were forgiven - based on 1 John 1:19. The only sins that were singled out as requiring more than simple confession to God were specific sins eventually deemed mortal sins - like fornication, adultery, murder and apostasy. For mortal sins, the person had to go before the entire church and publically confess the sin and then submit to the required (rather extensive) penance required before the priest deemed the reconciliation was complete - such penance took years to complete in various stages. One key feature, known as exomologesis, was only allowed to be done once in a lifetime. If a subsequent mortal sin occurs, then the person was considered excommunicated without chance of reconciliation.

So there wasn't private confession, followed by absolution, followed by penance and it was only reserved for the most severe sins which was a very short list and could only be done once in a lifetime.

I'm not commenting on the merits of one system or another or on any opinion I may have with what is good or bad about any of this, so please don't interpret this as an anti-Catholic posting. I'm just pointing out some historical facts that I thought would prove interesting for this discussion.

Obviously, most Protestants handle venial or everyday sins after the pattern of the early church and 1 John 1:19, but have no sufficient mechanism for handling mortal sins - in fact, they deny the differences between mortal and venial.

I would like to ask a question I have with respect to Catholic theology. Can venial sins be forgiven if confessed just to God in prayer? Or do Catholics require a priest to forgive the sin no matter how severe? I've heard conflicting answers on that?

Thanks.

Dave

-- non-Catholic Christian (private@address.com), March 17, 2004.


Dave,

you asked if venial sins must be confessed in order to be forgiven.

the answer (simply put) is no. venial sins can be forgiven, not through an internal forum of confessing to God, so much as being contrite and through the sacrament of communion. that is to say, we believe our communion washes us of venial sins.

Will a venial sin keep you out of heaven? probably not. alot of em might put you in purgatory for a time.

SHOULD you confess venial sins? I do, when i go to confession. I feel more comfortable knowing I am absolved of all my sins rather than "just the serious ones." I know that communion cleanses my venial sins as well, but its reasuring when the priest says "Your sins are forgiven."

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 17, 2004.



Dave,

When I said Christians received absolution "in the same manner" since the beginning, I didn't mean to imply that there have not been many changes in the format and the externals. Certainly there have been. I meant "in the same manner" only in the broadest sense, namely, through absolution by a priest, after verbally revealing one's sins. Never was there a tradition of confessing "only directly to God". That is a modern innovation of Protestantism.

As paul said, venial sins do not have to be confessed. Not only are venial sins absolved by reception of the Eucharist as paul said, but they are also absolved along with confessed mortal sins when we receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession), whether we conffess the venial sins or not. Actually, if everyone confessed every venial sin they commit, going to Confession would be a time-consuming event.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 17, 2004.


"...going to Confession would be a big time consuming event."

It seems like I always get stuck in line behind someone that spends 10 minutes in Confession. I can't help but think to myself what in the world takes this long to Confess? :-) I'm in and out in less than two minutes 90% of time.

-- - (David@!excite.com), March 17, 2004.


And- confession is a very humbling experience, as it should be. As I read elsewhere on this board, people have a minister preside at weddings and funerals, so why shouldn't confession be that way? The early Christians had to confess before the whole congregation, so we should consider ourselves lucky. Anyway, many protestant friends of mine that have gotten into trouble would always "call the preacher", especially if jail time was involved!!!!!

-- Mark Advent (adventm5477@earthlink.net), March 21, 2004.

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