Hi all,

I have a serious question. I know that abstinence is the only way to go in a relationship with a girlfriend before marriage... But what does the Church say about just going to sleep with that person on a semi-infrequent basis? Or is the fact that I'm asking enough of an answer to say no? Nothing else would happen but a goodnight kiss, turning out the lights, and closing our eyes.

Just trying to be the best that I can be, while still enjoying as much love as I can. :-) I know this isn't necessary, but it's all the more sweeter.

Thank you in advance to all.

-- Mark Wishneusky (IamWishing@aol.com), March 17, 2004

Answers

Beam me up to the top Scotty!

-- Mark Wishneusky (IamWishing@aol.com), March 17, 2004.

Temptation is a dangerous thing, is my limited advice...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 17, 2004.

In my experience, it seldom (or I should say never) ended in just a goodnight kiss. There is really no reason to tempt yourselves like this.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 17, 2004.

i somewhat disagree with bill.

it will place a higher stress on you to avoid temptation, but it is not expressly a moral wrong. you must go into it with full knowledge, however, so it is to you to weigh what that would do to your level of temptation and if your relationship could handle it.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 17, 2004.

Mark,

The Church teaches that prudence is a virtue, and that we should strive to live a virtuous life. It also teaches that we should avoid temptation if we can. Quite honestly, if you fall into premarital relations it is something you will always regret and be a stain upon your true love for this woman.

Keep your life simple.

If you absolutely must sleep in the same building, sleep in another room. And get on with the marriage plans so you will not need to be tempted. When you can admit God to that interaction, then the time will be right. But not before when your feelings are really only pride and lust, no matter how romantic they may seem to you now.

-- Pat Delaney (pat@patdelaney.net), March 18, 2004.

Knowingly, intentionally, and unnecessarily placing oneself "in a near occasion of sin" - a situation likely to result in mortal sin - is in itself an objective moral wrong, regardless of whether we manage to resist the inevitable temptation or not.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), March 18, 2004.

Hi all,

Thanks for all the responses. I know it is probably best to stay out of whatever danger I could put myself in that would end up with me regretting something later. I will keep all this in mind... Just trying to get better day by day...

Thanks again, Mark

-- Mark Wishneusky (IamWishing@aol.com), March 18, 2004.

If she is a woman of good morals, she would be honored when you honor her. That means avoiding temptation. At least sleep in another room. When your marriage comes, she will be all the more honored that you followed God's plan. As it is, you are tempting yourselves and threatening to disrespect and dishonor her.

What would you think if you found her "innocently" lying in bed with another man? She is not yet your wife, so don't pretend that she is. It will only bring shame on you both.

-- (A@womans.view), March 18, 2004.

My wife and I (though both virgins on the wedding day) did TOO much before marriage. No need for details, but the main cause of this was simple: diving headlong into the 'near occasion of sin'. Please accept the voice of experience, this is not a good idea.

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), March 18, 2004.

Proverbs 6:27-28

"Can a man scoop fire into his lap without his clothes being burned? Can a man walk on hot coals without his feet being scorched?"

My opinion you are playing with fire with this idea. You will have plenty of time after marriage to be with one another in the same bed. The time before marriage is to develop the nonphysical parts of intimacy, if the proper foundation is laid, then the physical aspect will be much better after marriage. At least that is my take on the matter. God bless you.

-- James (stinkcat_14@hotmail.com), March 18, 2004.

From a personal experience: i don't recommend it either even though I didn't have sex.

Tell you the problem. Nothing might happen the first night you plan it, but if this becomes a regular thing, who knows.

It helps if you're true with yourself and God and heard about other people's mistakes.

Just my 2 cents.

-- Joj uu Buaesh (openbook@castle.net), August 19, 2004.

Try jumping in a pool without taking a breath; it can't be done without the consequences.

Try taking a drink of soda pop without letting it go down; it can't be done without the consequences.

Try staying the speed limit when the traffic is zooming by; it can't be done without the consequences.

Try holding those bubble wraps without popping a few; it can't be done without the consequences.

Try holding hands with a beautiful woman without eventually falling in love; it can't be done without the consequences.

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 19, 2004.

Agree in general to all the above answers. One other thing you must consider is whether you are committing the sin of scandal. I don’t mean “scandal” as the word has been misused by the media to mean “bad PR”. I mean in the sense “to demoralise others who see you as an example of Christian morality”. Even if you don’t “do anything wrong”, other people will presumably find out that you and your girlfriend spent the night together alone in the same house or apartment. If they are pro-fornication, anti-Christian bigots they may well think “These Christians are hypocrites and their faith is just meaningless words, because they do the same as what we do!” Christians who are honestly trying to live chastely may well think “Surely they must have done something wrong behind closed doors. I thought those two were good Christians. What’s the point in me trying to be chaste?” Don’t create this situation unless you’re sure that none of these evils will result.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), August 19, 2004.

Are you all so weak willed and full of lust that you can not be in close contact with a member of the opposite sex without it leading to full on sexual contact?

Do none of you understand the possibility of people being close, needing closeness, without sexual intimacy? Is sex the only and inevitable outcome of people developing closeness.

What about the power of love and respect for your friend and the desire to do nothing that will cause them harm to overcome lust and self fulfilment.

Please have more faith in the human condition - not all of us feel the need to engage in sexual behaviour with everyone we hug!

-- Anglican Christian (sharon.guy@ntu.ac.uk), August 20, 2004.

Hiya Anglican Christian, are you angry with us?

As I might have hinted earlier I don't think sleeping with a girl (ie. no sexual contact) is wrong or a sin, but it's not something that we should all openly say is ok and make it a norm. It is a sensitive situation because it can lead to a grave sin being commited. If someone wants to go swim in the beautiful but shark-infested ocean then I'll say they it's ok but they must not swim too far despite the temptation to do so.

If you are true with yourself and have a firm understanding about:

1. the sacredness of sex and how it is reserved for the person you will marry within a marriage. 2. that you can't hide anything from God. 3. being on your guard because many have fallen in your situation.

Then it should be OK; worked for me and note that I'm a guy who used to look at porn,masturbate frequently and had sex on the brain, and the fact that the girl I shared a bed with was not even Christian. I think that being alone with a loved one and not having sex with them is one of the best ways to show your faith in God and the fact that you're putting Him first.

As someone mentioned earlier though, another big issue is what others will think. God is our judge and primarily it's what He thinks of us that matters. But even if nothing did happen people(especially non- Christians) might assume that something did and that gives a bad impression of Christianity in general.

So if you're still going to sleep with your girlfriend, go ahead knowing that it will be a night where you are honouring and respecting your future wife by not binding your body to another and,above all, showing your obedience and love for God by not becoming a slave to any sexual urge your body might experience.

hope that helps. By the way, if you have time, an interesting read is "No sex please,we're single" by Ian Gregory.

-- Joj uu Buaesh (openbook@castle.net), August 20, 2004.

The sex drive is extremely powerful stuff. I guess we could control it with our moral behaviours, but to be realistic we need more than our morals. We actually need to us common sense as road blocks to potential sexual situations we may not be able to escape. It happens!

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 20, 2004.

Common sense and rational thought are essential components of morality. Conscience is a rational decision-making process, not an emotion or "feeling". That's why it is so important for us to provide our minds with objective truth, especially in the form of the teaching of the Church, so that our conscience will have reliable data to work with in formulating such decisions.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 20, 2004.

I'm not angry just suprised by the seeming lack of self control. At the moment with tiredness, ill health and a one year old my husband and I are almost celibate. We share a bed every night and rarely get beyond a good night kiss! We manage to maintain intimacy by soft words and cuddles - the desire is there but out of regard for each others health we abstain. Simply unless we both feel willing and able we don't go there. This doesn't mean that we are frustrated or so filled with desire that we leap on each other at the slightest touch.

-- Anglican Christian (sharon.guy@ntu.ac.uk), August 27, 2004.

Anglican, I am sorry to hear of illness in your household. My prayers are with you and your family.

God Bless

-- Suzanne (james-betsy@sbcglobal.net), August 27, 2004.