What is the catholic teaching on what will happen after death to noncatholics(but still christians), atheists, agnostics, people believing in other faiths(example Islam and buddhism etc), and pagans? Also, what happened to all the people who lived before Jesus Christ after they died?

our catholic teaching is that to reach heaven, we have to have faith and good works. How about pagans that do good works?

-- aguilar (janeiro_a@rocketmail.com), March 23, 2004

Answers

Few oagans do good works. This is not a statement of predjudice, btu fact. I spent three years tryign to fidn the good in all religions, and I learned a lot about varisu ones. what I learne dof those wheo now call themselves Pagan is this. They enter their religion in order to mke up whatever feels good to them.

They usually are isolated, antisocial people who seem less happy and contented than the majority. Dispite their claims of liberty, they actually have little to no real freedom, and are entraped by one useless ritual after another.

Most Pagans are also Anti-Christain, tot he poin where they regularly Bl;aspheme God, go after other gods,a nd hail them as superior.

THey clealry are not in good standing. However, I cannot judge them.

As for Agniostics and Atheists, it depends. Those who simpley dohbt, or dont beleive, byut midn their own buisness, can be ameabe, and really care. Some of them even beleive in the Principles of Christainity, wihtout subsctibing tot he supernatural parts.

Others are simpley vicious monstrocities who seek to attack Christainity at and tear into beleivers. They spend hours lookign aroudn the web for Bibel contradictions and wavign them in peopels face. ( Often not relaly researchign them, many contradictiosn go away of you read the actual Bible.)

They are like the Pagans. Often selfish, needy people who impley liek to rebell.

Islam and Buddhism are different anumals. Not all members of those faiths mock Christains nor is it a regular ocurance.

But to answer your queatsion, I will tell you this. God juydges our souls based on what they KNOW and BELEIVE. It is the quality of your charecter, andyour sincere desire yo draw near unto God and his purpose, that is weighted.

Their will be many Christaisn damned to Hell because they do not seek God, but are Chritain in name only. Their will be many in isolated islands inthe pacific, who live and die without ever meeting a Christain, who make it to heaven, becse they sincerely sought to know God. ( Catholcis call this " Invencible ignorance.")

I beleive that all of us are judged based on the tyoef person we cose to become. Not on our cercumstances.

But then again, I am not Cahtolic...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 23, 2004.

aguilar, the Church teaches that God wills that all men be saved. She teaches that all men are created in God's image - inherently good. If through no fault of their own, non-Catholics, atheists, pagans, etc. have not been exposed to the fullness of Truth, allowances will be made for them by God. Provided they lived life to their earthly calling, with goodness in their heart and not evil, God offers them His kingdom willingly and lovingly in all its fullness.

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), March 23, 2004.

Nevertheless, the Church is necessary for salvation; we must pray fervently for all people who are not in communion with her, especially the un-Baptized, because they lack the many graces that come only through the Sacraments, and they are broken by the sin of our First Parents.

It is only by God's gratuitous grace that we have the gift of faith; and by that gift and the grace of perfect charity in the Sacraments we are saved. It is by that same gratuitous grace that God may reach the hearts of men and women, known only to him, which through no fault of their own are not able to sacramentully embrace the fullness of the Gospel.

Thus we are always called to pray and to evangelize so that they may be One Fold and One Shepherd, not only out of a loving desire for their salvation, but because our own faith cannot be so lukewarm that we would hide our joy in Christ. Baptism is not the duty of the damned, but the most precious gift Christ gave to his Church to give to the world who never knew him. Ignorance of the joy of Christian communion is not the sin but the most sorrowful of poverties; it is rather the complacency before this poverty, or the crass misrepresentation of the gift that is the grievious sin.

Goodness that was highfoluton. I need to watch the caffeine.

-- anon (ymous@god.bless), March 23, 2004.

Beautifully put Anon! In saying what you have, you've reminded me of something I wanted to say when constructing my post but forgot: Those not in communion with God’s Church, to varying degrees, possess only some of the tools necessary for salvation; those in full communion with God’s Church possess all of the tools necessary for salvation. That’s the difference!

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), March 23, 2004.

Ed, what are the extra tools necessary for salvation then. I thought the only thing necessary for salvation was the gracious forgivness of our sins through Jesus Christ.

-- Mike (michael_hawkes@cwcom.net), March 24, 2004.

mike, any catholic can answer your question. The list below is an abbreviated list of some tools besides forgiveness from God...

1) Acceptance of the Word of God as being the true testament inspired by God and infallable in nature.

2) Sacred Tradition which is protected by the Holy Spirit from error

3) Holy Baptism, the rebirth through water and spirit which is necessary for salvation

4) the protection of the Holy Spirit, encumbant on those confirmed in the faith, to lead them from temptation and deliver them from evil and to enspire divine truth.

5) The Eucharist, the living body and blood of Christ, without which you cannot have life in you.

6) holy confession, the remission of sins (when contrite in a sacramental confession) through the keys of the kingdom which were given to the apostolic succession by Jesus Himself.

7) Annointing of the sick, the rite of aiding your neighbor when they are ill.

8) Marraige or Holy Orders-- the call to answer God's summons for a holy priesthood and a multiplication of believers through procreation.

9) Last Rites, the sacrament of final forgiveness and blessing to a person who is about to die, comforting them in their time of need and praying for intercession on their behalf.

10) Magisterium... the infallable protection of the Holy Spirit which protects all vatican scriptural interpretation and dogmatic instruction from ANY error.

These things are not ALL necessary for salvation, but they help. They represent a peice of the fullness of truth, of which only part is owned by any protestant denomination.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 25, 2004.

paul h., good response!

Mike, I never referred to "extra" tools. I mentioned that Catholics have "all" the tools necessary for salvation, while others do not. A tool doesn’t grant salvation on its own as your question implies. Basically, a tool of salvation is something that will help us along in accomplishing our mission in life. What is our mission in life you might ask, or more importantly, what should everyone’s mission in life be - why to get to heaven of course and spend eternity in total happiness with Our Saviour. Catholics believe that in order for us to be admitted into heaven, our souls need to be pure and free from the stain of sin. Tools help us become purer and remove stain from our souls obtained through the commission of sin. Tools help us to acquire grace, which purifies the soul and in turn readies us to meet our Saviour.

What tools do Catholics have then, that non-Catholics do not? Well for one, as paul h. has said, we have the sacraments, which were given to us by Jesus Christ, Himself. A sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give grace.

Another tool Catholics have that non-Catholics do not and that paul h. referred to and was given to us by Christ, is our holy Mother, the Church. Our Church is protected by the Holy Spirit as paul said. Jesus told us as much. Jesus knew our human folly would get us into trouble. He left in place, an institution that could provide the guidance we would need to help us accomplish our mission goals. The Church, through Her teaching Magisterium, helps provide lessons in the faith making us stronger followers of Christ, which in turn, acquires more grace for us and get us along further in our mission in life. She also prevents us from falling into pitfalls along the way by providing us with one holy (inspired and protected by God) interpretation of what God wants for us in our lives. For example, She interprets Scripture for us, so that Catholics have one unified interpretation of what God is telling us in His holy Word unlike outside the Catholic Church, where there are as many different interpretations of Scripture as there are people that read the Bible.

Catholics have many other tools as well, far too numerous to mention here. For example Catholics have sacramentals which serve to constantly remind us of why we are here and where we are going in our mission in life. We have the Communion of Saints, both living and dead who pray for us and intercede on our behalf to the Father.

The most important tool of all however, that Catholics have and non- Catholics to do not, is the Eucharist - the source of pure grace, the source of all grace. In the Eucharist we have Emmanuel - God, Himself. God is physically present in the Eucharist, body, blood, soul and divinity. It just doesn’t get any better than that!

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), March 25, 2004.

Ed said: The most important tool of all however, that Catholics have and non- Catholics to do not, is the Eucharist

Ed (or others) could you please elaborate on the benefits of receiving the Eucharist? I am not yet Catholic and have never taken it. What does it mean or do for you? Why is it that most Catholics don't seem to notice or realize that it's so great, like when they leave and become Protestant and don't miss it or even despise the idea of the real presence?

Thanks & God bless,

-- Emily (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), March 25, 2004.

Emily, a beautiful question.

When St. John of the Cross was imprisoned, he asked for nothing except that his cell be the closest to where the Host was reserved. The Eucharist is the "source and the summit of our faith." There is no canonized saint who did not regard the Eucharist as the very cornerstone of the worth of their being.

In these, I believe, the words of the day are skepticism and pragmatism. Someone very dear to me has told me, "I believe in the Real Presence, but I do not know why it would be so terrible if it were only a symbol." How is that for a ruined day?

So the question is, why? No complete picture can be given, and an approximation would take volumes. But allow me to speculate and it might give us (at least) some direction.

When it comes to a matter of faith, it will not be believed until the Church has truly embraced the would-be believers. Outside of her, we hang our hats on the mundane, visible hat racks; even faithful Catholics do this. We see no objection to the theories of science or the basic assumptions behind traditional governments, and so on. Until their (historical, contingent) roots are ripped out of obscurity and placed before us, we do not even feel the need for examination. Lily pads floating on the surface, we become.

The danger is that we confuse the artificial and social Over-beliefs for The Real Thing; we set it up as a standard, the measure against everything else we encounter. Once upon a time, "man was the measure of all things;" but now this is no longer true--the axioms of science and popular government and pop philosophy are the new measure, and they are beginning to tear us away from real truth, which is truth- for-people.

So we have huge groups of people with far tougher latchings to the unquestioned assumptions of their social state, and shallow roots in the life of the Church.

Something different than the way it looks, smells, feels, and affects the body? PREPOSTEROUS. But then, no one has deigned to wrap themselves in the fine-woven folds of Tradition, the faith of the Fathers, and the roots of faith.

The Real Presence has its own logic, its own rigorous science! Thomas Aquinas described it as faithfully as any human being could, but still the Eucharist refuses to be confined; it bursts out of our determinations like water our of a cracked fire-hydrant. We look at the Eucharist and we consume our Lord weekly (or sometimes daily); but if we refused to be consumed ourselves, overwhelmed by the majesty of the Eternal God Here and Now Given for No Merit of Ours but for Indominable Love-- THAT is the value, and that is the hat- rack of faith.

But faith is a strange bird; it is not always obvious in front of our eyes, without shadows, like a Gravitational Constant or a pot of potatoes; we try to grasp it and it recedes. Only when we "let it be" do we discover that "grasping" was the wrong approach all along! Like a wonderful dream that we try to have a second time, not only does it come most strongly when we least expect, but each time it comes differently, unfolding something new that we never experienced before or even hoped to.

The Eucharist is always there; that is not the question. Rather, are we always there? Being there for the Eucharist is easier than having a mystical experience. We aren't all mystics and even the mystics aren't mystics at every moment. Sometimes before a tabernacle it is OK to genuflect and nod the head and cross oneself all the while thinking, "I feel nothing." Because thinking "I feel nothing" while thinking also "thank you God for giving us your Son" is a Greater faith than the mystic's.

But who goes on like I am right now? What priest holds talks and conferences and preaches all about what a delight it is to have our Lord as our constant and permanent guest? Who? Who revels in rolling the embrace of this God who becomes bread for us? Who else is jarred by this Given-God-Before-Us like a raging waterfall or the abyss of the Grand Canyon or the impossibly huge St. Peter's Basilica? Who else dips into the pathos of the fact that the Logos has come to rest in our churches to rejoice in our adoration?

If our priests are not doing there job--which is to rip from the aritificial obscurity of "respectable opinion" the blazing and confounding truth of the mysterious depths of God's unending love-- then no one can be surprised that, for too many, the Eucharist is a Sunday snack.

-- anon (ymous@God.bless), March 25, 2004.

More answers, anyone?

-- (jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), March 26, 2004.

HELLO!

There is NO way into Heaven except through Jesus Christ. I dont care how GOOD you were in life or what religion you were part of. If you dont accept Jesus, there is no hope for you.

Jesus is LORD. Not the pope.

-- Adrian Cromwell (catlitter@cox.net), March 27, 2004.

adrian,

you said: There is NO way into Heaven except through Jesus Christ.

the problem is, no one here has ever claimed such a thing. read the posts above again. we're talking about tools of salvation, not the means of our salvation.

I recommend you be a little more patient and understanding in your posts. this is the first day i've read what you've posted and i'm already tired of it. what you have to say, though you think otherwise, is nothing new. We've heard the same thing from countless fundies of all different denominations (or non denominations) preaching to us without any knowledge of actual history or the Bible. We're pretty tired of it. maybe reading the forum rules would help you out.

-- paul h (dontSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com), March 27, 2004.

Adrian,
Your right, there is no way into Heaven except through Jesus Christ.

In Christ,
Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 27, 2004.

And how has Christ given himself to us? Why, in the Sacraments, and in the Apostolic faith of the Catholic Church, of course.

-- anon (ymous@God.bless), March 27, 2004.

Thanks for the answers! They help a lot specially the significance of the sacraments in our salvation.

additional question is this, though. I think somewhere in the gospel of Matthew(sheesh sorry I cant quote the chapters and the verse from my mind) the question God will ask us is did we feed Him when he was hungy? Did we clothe Him when he was naked? etc. ( I noticed He did not ask which religion we came from..). There is also the story of the rich man and Lazarus. The rich man was not mean to Lazarus but his sin was he absolutely did NOTHING to help Lazarus. Of course there is also the story of the rich man living a RIGHTEOUS life, and the camel and the needle.

I know believing in Jesus and participating in the sacraments is very important,but why is it that not much EMPHASIS is put on good works? After all, 'believing in Jesus' encompasses faith and good works.(I just noticed from your answers that not one thing was mentioned about good works so I am saying there is no 'emphasis' on it)

-- aguilar (janeiro_a@rocketmail.com), March 29, 2004.

The scene of the LAST JUDGMENT, aguilar is in Mt 25.

Enrique

-- Enrique Ortiz (eaortiz@yahoo.com), March 30, 2004.