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Incest LegalizedI knew this would happen. It is sad really. If the court is going to make rulings like this, why don't they just say "do whatever you want, you won't be prosecuted for it."
-- Scott (papasquat10@hotmail.com), March 26, 2004
First of all , it's about stepparents & stepkids , but anyway ,are they a bit nuts or are they completely nuts ????
This is a sick creepy thing to destroy a whole family !!!!
BTW , the age of the kid was 15 & 16 , so the person who of +18 year old , who do something like that , is also a sick paedophile , no matter what or which point of view !!!!
Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 26, 2004.
HORRENDOUS! (But then what do you expect from Massachusetts?) So what about adopted children? And this guy mentioned in the article was 60 and his stepdaughter 16 . . .? My GOSH, we are truly sliding into Gomorrah!Gail
-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), March 27, 2004.
what about adopted childrenIndeed , a good question !!
My answer would be: "keep your dirty , filthy hands of them" !!!!
Yes , the world is ready to get crashed , I don't get that judge !!
I know about a stepbrother & stepsister who are married at age of 21- 22 , both their own parents where divorced and the father of him and the mother of her did get married , the kids where at that time 12 & 13 !! Something like that sounds maybe weird , but that is something different !!
Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 27, 2004.
Yes, the old argument " If we allow Homosexuality, Incest will be nect" was proven right. Thsi is a steo closer. and Gay Rights advocates laughted.Called it silly to siggest such a thing. Not such a slippery slope now.
-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 27, 2004.
What I don't understand is, why wasn't he thrown in jail for statutory rape, regardless of the step-parent relationship? "Fifteen'll get you twenty", as the old saying goes.
-- GT (nospam@nospam.com), March 27, 2004.
Zarove , homosexuality & incest are something completely different !!Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 27, 2004.
A 60 year old stepfather and a 16 year old stepdaughter? I don't see a problem with it.
-- W. Allen (woody@woodyallen.com), March 27, 2004.
-- W. Allen ,may I ask you why you see nothing wrong with this ??
Can you clarify yourself ??
Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 27, 2004.
Lagrant, they are the same. Homosexuality and Insect are both perversions.If we begin t allow one form of immorality, we soon begin to allow others.
Peopel have for years argued that allowing Homosexuality woudl elad to allowing Incest. The Gay Rights peopel said the same thing you did, that they arent related. Guess what? Here is proof.
-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 27, 2004.
Zarove , incest is not homosexuality !!Incest is something sick & perverted !!!!!!!!
Gay persons , I accept them as they are , in my eyes they have nothing done wrong !! __ Couples who cheat on their partner , that's wrong & sick !! __ But as I told , it's my point of view on these things !!
Peopel have for years argued that allowing Homosexuality woudl elad to allowing Incest.
Can you explain this to me , allowing homosexuality leads to allowing incest ??
Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 27, 2004.
Pretty easy to exp,ain. They use the same argument. "Its cncensual."Allow one form o depravity, and soon other forms demand acceptance. We accept Homosexuality, and already the Paexdophiles want acceptance, and the Incestuous. Same principle applies to anyhtignrelaly. Onc you start gettign rid f the old standards, you find more and more erosion in them.
-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 27, 2004.
Laurent, If your morality will allow homosexual sex, why not incest by concenting adults. I don't understand why you without faith draw such a line? Who or what is your moral authority for making such a stand?In Christ, Bill
-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 28, 2004.
Well Bill ,Gay persons , I really don't see what disease they've got , I accept them as they are , if I had kids and one would be gay , it's my kid , why should I force he/she to live with the other sex , and let them live live unhappy ?? __ May I ask , how becomes someone be gay ??
But incest is disgusting , screwing your own family , that's 100% morally wrong !!
Maybe weird , an adopted kid is not your own blood relative , but to me , it's the principe that counts , stepparents "signed" this kid to raise them !!
But You ask , where I draw my line of morality ??
Well , a part came via my parents , how they have raised me , another is my conscience , I think about life , I love happy living !! __ Some people think that NON BELIEVERS are only "wild moral-screwing having wild sex party-freaks" , wrong they are !! __ The fact is , so , religion is absolutely really not my thing , but that still doesn't makes me a monster !! __ Like when I going out , in all those years , I never had a to fight , except for 1 time (in a disco) I had to hit someone , 'cause he was pissing against my pant , that weirdo was always trying to get me for no reason , he said I was just a STUPID *ssh*l* , but after that 1-time unexpected smackdown straight in his face , never he has try it again !! __ Or what would you do ??
Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 28, 2004.
But can't you agree, Laurent, that a world view WITHOUT God; i.e., athiesm, could lead one to the conclusion there are no moral absolutes?I mean, I'm glad you are a person of conscience, but why should your conscience be binding upon anyone else?
Gail
-- Gail (rothfarms@socket.net), March 28, 2004.
I do care about other people , like my mom , I do have a girl- friend , not my love , but I really do care about her !!Gail , to me , religion looks like a invention !!
It's up to us to create the rules of what's right or wrong , but we ALL are different people , with a different view on all things !!
Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 28, 2004.
Thats sort of the problem Legraant, as my veiw may be that sex with 12 year olds is OK. Or my veiw is that sx with relatives is OK. See the problem?
-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), March 28, 2004.
Laurent, said: "Gail , to me , religion looks like a invention !! "And you said incest was discusting and homosexuality isn't because the homosexuals don't see any harm in it. Yet I know a number of people who are in incestual relationships who don't see any harm in them either. What happens to a society when morality is purely subjective?
By the way you answered my question, your morals sure seem like an invention as well. And purely subjective.
I think it would be worth-while to investigate the roots of the morality found in Christianity and why they have lasted for over 2,000 years.
Some good quotes on the topic:
"A patriot without religions is as great a paradox as an honest man without the fear of God...The scriptures tell us 'righteousness exalts a nation.'" --- Abigail Adams
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond, the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity." --- John Quincy Adams
"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped...As to Jesus of Nazareth...I think the System of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, is the best the World ever saw, or is likely to see." ---Benjamin Franklin
"We have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us, and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us." ---Abraham Lincoln's 1863 Thanksgiving Proclamation
"Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."---George Washington, in his farewell address
"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever . . . ." -- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, on Jefferson Memorial
In Christ,
Bill
-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 28, 2004.
Laurent,W. Allen is Woody Allen, the famous American movie director/actor/comedian. The reason he doesn't see a problem is because he left his wife or shackup Mia Farrow, a woman with which he had adopted a bunch of kids (something like 9) for one of his adopted kids Soon Yi Previn. I think Woody was around 60 and Soon Yi around 17 when they first got together. They later got married and can be seen occasionally at New York Knicks basketball games looking as happy as can be. Isn't that sweet.
Laurent, I agree with you that incest is sick and perverted. I agree with you that not all atheists are sex-crazed animalistic freaks. My brother is an atheist and more moral than many "religious" people I know. But as Bill and Gail have asked: how can you draw the line somewhere, being an atheist? What is your basis?
Some people may be born with same sex attraction, but I believe if there are, it is a very, very small number, not the 10% that homosexual activists would like you to believe, not even close. I know, and have known people living homosexual lifestyles and without exception, every one of those people are messed up. My lesbian neighbors were both molested as children, my wife's best friend from high school who "decided" at around 25 years of age that she had always been a lesbian has an EXTREMELY overbearing mother, a teenaged boy's mother was in prison when he was young and his father abandoned him, yada, yada, yada.
-- Brian Crane (brian.crane@cranemills.com), March 29, 2004.
What happens to a society when morality is purely subjective?which society ??
You know , people are most weird creature in this universum !!
By the way you answered my question, your morals sure seem like an invention as well. And purely subjective.
Why would I see my morals as an invention ??
I think about life , and I see what's right or wrong , no doubt !!
I think it would be worth-while to investigate the roots of the morality found in Christianity and why they have lasted for over 2,000 years.
And before those 2000 years ??
Like neanderthalers , how they have lived ??
To brian:
You're saying homosexuals are all "molested" ??
What about hetero's who are molested or/and abandoned ??
how can you draw the line somewhere, being an atheist? What is your basis?
My conscience
How can you draw the line somewhere, being an catholic , muslim , pagan , satanist , protestant , nihilist , .... ?? What is your basis ??
Also , why there are so many religions ??
Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:
-- Laurent LUG (.@...), March 29, 2004.
Laurent,
All humans are governed by what is termed by Greek philosophers as 'natural law'. An analysis of moral order over the centuries (even pre-dating Christ) shows that this is how we know right from wrong. This natural law is distinct from human law, which can be transitory.
-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 29, 2004.
By the way, natural law within each of us can also be termed our 'deep conscious'. I use the term 'deep conscious' because it is more than simply my choice. In other words, it is not a subjective morality that would be different for each of us, but a fixed natural law for all of us. A universal conscious, if you will.
-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), March 29, 2004.
Take another view: If love exists between a family, why would it be wrong to show it physically. I'm talking about love not lust.Take everything out of the picture, and suppose it not causing any harm to those involved. Then why should it worry us? Or don't they have any rights or freedom ?
Research shows that Incest is universal, it exists through all cultures, and yet almost every culture tries to hide it. I think the question goes beyond culture, and those calming it to be ‘sick’ are only seeing it through their own eyes.
“... What is right and what is wrong?” -- A Buddhist poem.
-- (...@...), April 25, 2004.
Take another view: If love exists between a family, why would it be wrong to show it physically.{fOR STARTERS pSYCOLOGY TELLS US THAT THIS BLURS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN FAMILY AND COMPETITIVE MATES, AND IT ALSO DESTORYS THE ABILITY FOR THE FAMILY TO ACT LIKE A FAMILY, INSTEAD THEY ACT LIKE LOVERS AND FAMILY, WHICH DISTORTS THE PICTURE EVEN MORE. Need details?}-Zarove
I'm talking about love not lust.
{Love is not always best expresed physically.}-Zarove
Take everything out of the picture, and suppose it not causing any harm to those involved.
{Impossible, since Incest ALWAYS causes harm. This is like syaing "Take everyhtign otu of thre picture, and ask, what harm does Cocain do?"}-Zarove
Then why should it worry us? Or don't they have any rights or freedom ?
{It worries us because of the LOSS of society, the LOSS of family, the destruction that it causes in peopels lives, the mass confusion, and the overall effect it will have on their own offspring if they ahve any. Likewise, no oen has complete freedom to do as they please, we are all governed by soem laws that restirct behaviour, this osnt done to deny basic rights, btu ti make distinctiosn between destructive practices, and socially acceptable practices.For the good of botht he Individual and the community, certain things are discouraged, while others outlawed.}-Zarove
Research shows that Incest is universal, it exists through all cultures, and yet almost every culture tries to hide it.
{The "Hide it" part shoul send up red flags their, since everyone is in agreement here...}-Zarove
I think the question goes beyond culture, and those calming it to be ‘sick’ are only seeing it through their own eyes.
{Nope, we are seeign it through the eyes of reason. Researhc reveals that even consensual incest leads to mental breakdowns, nto to mentin varisu genetic problems for offspring. it also destorys the family structure, and eliminates the basic distinction ebtween family and nonrelatives. This causes the individual not to feel more incporate dintot he family, but more Isolated. Exaclty what research have tou read that negates these findings?}-Zarove
-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), April 25, 2004.