Ok, I understand that we are always to follow the teachings on doctrines, and church disipline that the pope says, but what is it that we can disagree with him on? We are supposed to follow his teachings on morals right? So does that mean all who disagreed with him on the Iraqi war have sinned since it was supposely moraly wrong?

-- William (Ducin25@aol.com), April 18, 2004

Answers

We can and should disregard him if he is against the war of liberation.As Catholics we are called on to defend pre-born life, but post born people are less important because they are sinners. If they die its sad but OK in cases like war. The pope still believes all life is equal. He means well but he is old and his mind sometimes plays tricks on him. I hope this clears it up for you.

-- Fred (RobertRobert@Bob.com), April 18, 2004.

Fred is being sarcastic, I suppose. The short answer is we should always follow the teachings of the pope on doctrines and church disipline. When the Pope or the Bishops as a whole (known as the Magistarium) guide us on faith or morals, we must obey their guidence. When they do that, they make their authority perfectly clear.

In the case of the just war doctrine, which seems to be Fred's point, the choice of a war being just or not is not left up to the bishops or the Pope, it is left up to the civil authorities who would have access to all the pertanent information that is available. When in doubt: refer to the Catechism.

Here are some details if you would like them.

In Christ, Bill

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), April 18, 2004.

Some can't accept the war in Iraq is now nightmare, for Iraq citizens, American administration and taxpayers. No WMD & no emminent threat to USA, stated reasons for invading. Truth is painful. Best to keep head in the sand, make up new reasons why there had to be a war, say pope is wrong, church is wrong, all while people are dying terrible deaths everyday. My friends, you do not fool anyone. What you raelly defend is your own pride.

-- Disciple (cpetrs45@earthlink.com), April 18, 2004.

Iraq is now nightmare, for Iraq citizens

This must be written by someone who has not been to Iraq.

Here is something from someone who has:

Visit Makes World of Difference
By Pamela Dickman
Reporter-Herald Staff Writer

A retired Colorado State trooper says his stint helping train an Iraqi police force changed his view of the war.

When Loveland resident Jerry Lincoln left for Iraq on March 19, Lincoln said he was neutral about the conflict — inspectors had found no weapons of mass destruction.

After seeing firsthand the lingering terror of Saddam Hussein and realizing the persecution under which Iraqi people had lived, Lincoln said he now views the conflict as more about removing a tyrannical leader and helping people.

"I couldn't be more proud of the coalition and our country for freeing these people from an ugly and ruthless regime," Lincoln said.

"I just didn't realize how important freedom is until I was visiting with these neighborhood children and neighborhood parents."

He saw fear and pain in Iraqis' eyes.

read it all here

We are now engaged in fighting Saddam's loyalists who want to bring this hell back, and we are battling the Al Qaeda who want to bring this hell to America and have already brought the battle to our shores. This liberation may not be your cup of tea, but it is good work nevertheless. It may be tough work, but if we don't see it through the nightmare, as you call it, will have only just begun.

In Christ,
Bill Nelson

We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in
the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm
-George Orwell

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), April 18, 2004.

oops, article has moved off their site, but I found it reproduced here.

It is worth the read.

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), April 18, 2004.

NOW BACK TO THE REAL WORLD....

(Reuters) April 18, 2004 - U.S. casualties announced Sunday included five Marines killed when a patrol came under attack by insurgents with machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades near the town of Husaybah close to the Syrian border, the Marines said.

Reinforcements, backed by helicopters, also came under fire by insurgents operating from near Husaybah's former Baath Party headquarters, the military said.

The fighting continued through the night, the Marines said, pitting their troops against 120 to 150 insurgents. The Marines estimated 25 to 30 insurgents were killed in the attack.

They also reported seeing women and children surrounding mortar positions but could not tell if they were there voluntarily. They said the insurgents fired at medical helicopters carrying wounded Marines from the battlefield.

Elsewhere, three U.S. soldiers were killed Saturday when their 1st Armored Division convoy was ambushed near the southern Iraqi town of Diwaniyah.

A ninth American, assigned to the 1st Marine Expeditionary Unit, was killed Saturday in fighting west of Baghdad in the violent Anbar province.

Officials announced two more deaths Sunday. A U.S. soldier was killed and two others injured Saturday when their tank rolled over in north Baghdad, and another soldier died of wounds received Saturday in a roadside bombing.

-- Patrick (oldnewenglander@att.net), April 18, 2004.

A WARM AND FUZZY SHOW OF GRATITUDE TOWARD THEIR LIBERATORS

Cox News Service, April 1, 2004 IRAQIS KILL, BURN, MUTILATE AMERICAN CIVILIANS WHILE CROWDS CHEER

FALLUJAH, Iraq - Cheering crowds burned and mutilated the bodies of four Americans in Fallujah yesterday, dragging the corpses through the streets and hanging two from a bridge in a spectacle of anti-U.S. bloodlust reminiscent of Somalia a decade ago.

In the deadliest day for Americans in Iraq in months, the four American security contractors - men employed by the U.S.-led coalition - were traveling in two sport utility vehicles on a main road in this city in the "Sunni Triangle" when they were ambushed by insurgents armed with rifles and grenades, according to witnesses.

Five U.S. soldiers also were killed in the same area yesterday when a bomb exploded under their armored personnel carrier, the military said.

Fallujah, about 35 miles west of Baghdad, has been a center of guerrilla attacks against Americans and their Iraqi supporters.

The deaths of the five GIs, members of the 1st Infantry Division, brought the total number killed in Iraq to at least 597 since U.S. forces invaded in March 2003.

Almost a year after U.S. troops toppled Saddam Hussein, the White House blamed remnants of the deposed regime for the attacks and condemned the grisly celebrations.

"These are horrific, despicable attacks," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.

The four contract workers were employed by a private security firm, Blackwater USA, in Moyock, N.C. The company said in a statement yesterday that its agents were providing security for food convoys in the Fallujah area.

Neither the company nor the coalition identified the dead, pending notification of next of kin.

In Fallujah, young men threw rocks and chunks of concrete at the burning vehicles, which rested on opposite sides of a wide median.

The crowd chanted, "Long live Fallujah. Long live Islam," and pro- Saddam slogans as the bodies were mutilated and dragged through the street.

Video broadcast on Arabic television stations showed a charred body flat on its back with its stiff arms reaching up toward the sky and there were scenes of an Iraqi hitting a burned corpse with a metal pole that he swung from above his head.

Two of the corpses, both burned beyond recognition and one dismembered and decapitated, were later lashed to steel girders flanking a bridge spanning the Euphrates River.

The video showed people dancing and chanting beneath the bridge.

-- Patrick (oldnewenglander@att.net), April 18, 2004.

What are you afraid of Patrick? Nothing of value in life comes easily. Especially freedom. Every generation of American had to fight to keep us free. It is now our turn. Here is an article to think about.

"Evil is out there, and evil wishes to attack us"

Army Lt. Gen. John R. Vines, who commands about 85,000 soldiers in four combat divisions — all of which have seen combat in Southwest Asia — told the American Forces Press Service last week at Fort Bragg, N.C., that the war on terror boils down to defending the United States against the forces of evil. "Evil is out there, and evil wishes to attack us," he said.

Vines said the American public frequently talks about how the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, "changed the world for everyone." But terrorists had been fighting the United States long before the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, he said, launching more than 100 attacks against Americans around the world.

"Whether you date it from when militants overran the U.S. Embassy in Iran in 1979 or the Marine Corps barracks and U.S. Embassy were both bombed in Beirut, Lebanon, in 1983 or whether it was the bombing of the USS Cole in October 2000 or the (U.S. embassies) in Kenya or Tanzania in 1998 or Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996 or the World Trade Center in 1993," Vines said, "we have been under attack from extremists."

Despite these attacks, Vines said it took an event as dramatic as the World Trade Center attacks, "in prime time in one of the media capitals of the world, to drive home the fact that these people are serious about destroying us."

Vines said the Sept. 11 attacks did change the way the United States views terrorism — something he called "long overdue."

"It ceased to be a law-enforcement issue and became, at least in the mind of our government, a war," Vines said. "We were not on a war footing prior to Sept. 11."

Today, with U.S. forces waging the war on terror in Southwest Asia and elsewhere around the globe, Vines said the United States is "asking some extraordinary things" of its service members.

"We are in a struggle, and there are some incredible sacrifices and service by our men and women," he said. "They need our 100 percent support and we need to make sure that the American citizens know the heavy load they are carrying and value the sacrifices they are making."

He praised the "extraordinary heroism and extraordinary professionalism" of the individual soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines who have joined forces to protect the United States against terrorism. Their efforts, he said, have been "absolutely amazing and inspirational" to anybody who sees them.

Vines said success in combat isn't about military hardware or technology. "It boils down to the individual soldiers. It's about having people who have the commitment, the courage, the will and the warrior values to confront the forces that threaten us," he said. "And only so long as we have those men and women who are able and willing to confront this will we be safe."

see the article at: read the full article

Want to help? Then donate to the kids of Iraq, they can use your help. See: Spirit of America

-- Bill Nelson (bnelson45-nospam@hotmail.com), April 19, 2004.