I'm aware of the good purpose of this forum, and I'm proud to be a part of it. However, I see that sometimes my questions might seem a bit radical, and possibly destructive to the faith of those who come seeking guidance. I promise to form my questions appropriately so as to not incite anger or scandal. Thank you for your sound theology and reasoning. Here is my question:

In an effort to promote healthy reform, which is good and necessary in the Church, should the College of Cardinals consider electing a younger Holy Father next time around? and then implement some rules limiting his time as Bishop of Rome?

It seems to me as if JPII was an excellent choice in 1978, having tremendous experience with the dangers of communism and war, which was the issue at hand at the time. He was also excellent at dealing with the media culture. Well, today, in such an increasingly relativistic and pluralistic world that is loosing its youth to secularized culture, don't you think the best choice for Pope would be a younger person who could handle the rigors of traveling the world constantly, dealing with the youth with more than just a yearly "Youth Day?" I think this person should be trained and educated as the young people of today are trained, not forgetting the classics, but also ready to combat fast paced pluralism with training out of this same fast paced culture.

I've never been one to compromise values for practicality, but I am a fan of reform as an answer to the signs of the times. Maybe there should be new rules limiting the time the pontiff can be the pontiff? JPII, though an amazing academic and an excellent symbol for the Church, HAS NOT BEEN ABLE TO SPEAK TO US IN 10 YEARS. Nobody can speak to him either(You know what I mean). How about they consider electing a man that can actually handle the task of running a city state and representing the Church? When he is unable to do so, elect somebody new.

EC

-- EC (EC@hotmail.com), May 03, 2004

Answers

Bump!

-- The Bumper! (bump@bumpitybump.bump), May 03, 2004.

In an effort to promote healthy reform, which is good and necessary in the Church, should the College of Cardinals consider electing a younger Holy Father next time around? and then implement some rules limiting his time as Bishop of Rome?

Why on earth would we want to do that?

-- Hugh (huhg@inspired.com), May 03, 2004.

Uhhhhh, dude, did you even read what I wrote?

-- EC (EC@hotmail.com), May 03, 2004.

I read what you said, EC. But it left me wondering what you call reform. I also find: ''NOT BEEN ABLE TO SPEAK TO US IN 10 YEARS. Nobody can speak to him either(You know what I mean).'' unintelligible.

The Pope is aged, but he won't be the first one to age. Over the last years he has spoken with complete authority and even travelled quite a bit. In 2000 he presided over a Jubilee Year; with some difficulties because of age & infirmity. He is very able to communicate to the world. Many 70-yr olds are worse off as relates to infirmies.

You express what seems (correct me if wrong) a lack of confidence in aged people; and no such problem with younger people.

You were simply unaware perhaps, that old age is far from a deficiency; it's really the key to profound wisdom. In our Holy Father's life, let's add the grace of the Holy Spirit to the equation; and I'll ask-- What would a younger Pope give us better than he? We should remember the folksy saying: If it ain't broke don't fix it.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), May 03, 2004.

You mean a weaker man who would cave in to popular demand and turn the Church into a democracy? A relativist who doesn't accept the reality of absolute, objective, immutable truth? God forbid! And I'm sure He will. The Vicar of Christ has spoken powerfully over the past 10 years, on a number of urgent issues. However, he has spoken from a position of absolute truth, which is why his words have fallen upon many deaf ears in today's pluralistic (read confused), relativistic (read misguided) world. I pray that the next Holy Father will be as firm and decisive in the exercise of his God-given authority as this Pope has been. That's a lot to hope for, but it is exactly what the Church requires to continue to grow and prosper in these challenging, increasingly atheistic, pagan, and materialistic times. When the Church stops preaching the absolute truth and starts offering relativism in order to be accepted by a relativistic world (as many manmade churches already do), the show is over.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), May 03, 2004.

Eugene, Paul M., great posts!

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 03, 2004.

Hey, I'm not suggesting our next pope be 25 yrs old, but a young Cardinal, perhaps like the Cardinal of Tegulcigalpa, Honduras. He's in his 50's. He's dealt with the 3rd world, is a bridge between liberation theology and mainstream Roman Catholicism. He has always been considered to be very solid and conservative in his thought. But at the same time he is, for the most part, a post-Vatican II thinker. Latin Americans and Hispanics from the Caribbean make up just a little over half of the world's Catholics, he comes from that region. I'm sure at his age he is very wise and can be a good spiritual leader.

I don't see why we must continue this tradition of men in their 60's and 70's and 80's from Europe who haven't a clue how to speak to a geration of Catholics who haven't even been spoken to. Also, just because somebody knows how to speak to the youth doesn't mean they can't do so with a conservative theology.

-- EC (EC@hotmail.com), May 04, 2004.

A few points to consider, EC:

1.Yes JP2 now has great difficulty speaking to us but he does still "speak" quite effectively through his writings.

2. Yes it is tragic for the church that access to him appears to be extremely and arbitrarily limited (apparently by persons other than the Pope himself), for example the head of the association of superiors of religious congregations has not been permitted an audience for several years.

3. Being Pope is one tough job. There probably should be some form of limited term or some provision for automatic retirement if a Pope no longer has the faculties to perform all the necesssary tasks. But it's not going to happen under this pope, nor can the cardinals impose any conditions on the next pope. It'll be up to him to decide any such provisions.

4. We're actually not supposed to speculate on who might be the next pope.

5. Europe has almost as many Catholics as Latin America. The pope is the bishop of Rome so it's only right that Italian or European candidates be looked at first.

6. Most young people I know relate better to 70-80 year olds than to 40-50 year olds as a rule. And surely how well he relates to youth is mainly a matter of the pope's individual personality rather than whatever his age happens to be.

7. I think the present pope has "spoken to" youth pretty well. Maybe some of them don't feel "spoken to" because of the way their religion has been presented to them in their schools and churches. Or maybe a lot of them decided not to listen because they didn't like the message.

8. Why all the emphasis on youth anyway? Yeah I know they're the future and everything, but the average age of Catholics (and others) is much higher now than it's ever been in 2000 years.

9. This pope has decided it's part of his job to travel the world but that doesn't mean every subsequent pope has to adopt the same method.

-- Peter K (ronkpken@yahoo.com.au), May 04, 2004.

As someone still holding on to his 20's (if barely):

JPII is the strongest voice in the world to the youth. We flock to him. There is nothing in the dissent generation that appeals to me or anyone my age that I know. I'll take the 80 year old genius and saint, thank you very much.

As for age limits and such . . . the Pope is chosen by the Holy Spirit. He gives us the Pope and He takes the Pope away (by death).

"Please Lord don't take him yet. We still need him."

Dano

-- Dan Garon (boethius61@yahoo.com), May 04, 2004.

The Holy Spirit speaks through those who dissent as well, Dano.

-- EC (EC@hotmail.com), May 04, 2004.

EC; How can you prove it? If we dissent from Church doctrine we dissent against the Holy Spirit.

Because Jesus Christ is the Head of the Catholic Church, all authority is from above. No dissent from members is blessed by the Holy Spirit, once the Church has spoken.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbel.net), May 05, 2004.

EC, please be a bit more charitable in your responses. I’ve had to delete your last post for that reason. You may re-post it if you like minus the offensive comment.

Moderator

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 05, 2004.

Karol Wojtyla was 26 when he was ordained a priest in 1946. He was 36 when ordained a bishop in 1956. He was 48 when made a Cardinal in 1968. He was 58 when elected Pope.

I don't see how you could ask anyone to get elected at a quicker or younger age and still have the degree of preparation, formation, holiness, and erudition needed for the terrible responsibility the Bishop of Rome has.

I get weepy just thinking about the colossal weight of the cross involved with the priesthood itself - I was a seminarian for 11 years and never got used to the idea, (I discerned it wasn't for me, and left in peace) but imagine the weight of being Pope! Only a fool or madman would DESIRE the mission!

Youngish or older, the Holy Spirit knows what he's doing since Christ promised to be with and build HIS Church through the apostles.

I have faith that the next Pope will be the one we need just as the present Pope is the one we need now.

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), May 05, 2004.

Joe, in fairness, EC did not say that JP2 was too old when elected, just concerned about what has happened the last few years. Personally as I said I don't think he has reached his use-by date yet. Maybe when/if he does he'll be wise enough to see it.

Yes of course the Holy Spirit will guide us aright but I think we do need to make prudent provision for the likely future situations where a Pope becomes physically (eg falls into a coma) or mentally (eg Alzheimer's disease) incapacitated.

One solution would be for the Pope to choose a panel of doctors who, when the time came would rule on whether he was incapacitated. This would have to be endorsed by a panel of senior cardinals, who would then call the College together and ask them in turn to endorse it (with, say, a three-quarters majority). Once they had done this they could proceed to elect a new Pope. One problem with this is, what if the Pope is unable/unwilling to formally resign? A Pope cannot be deposed.

-- Peter K (ronkpken@yahoo.com.au), May 09, 2004.

Then again if they were doing this strictly according to a process previously laid down by the Pope, they would carry the pope's delegated authority.

-- Peter K (ronkpken@yahoo.com.au), May 09, 2004.