"THE WAY TO UTOPIA--

Before men can come to Utopia, they must learn the way there. Utopia, I see, is only a home for those who have learnt the way...it is not the place for men who grow wealthy by intercepting but by serving."
H.G. Wells.

Here is an example of men believing on each other for the answers to the problems of chaos. I see a problem of the blind leading the blind when there is no mention of God.

.......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004

Answers

Wells was an atheist, and a socialist, what do you expect?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), May 20, 2004.

"CASTLES IN THE AIR--

I find the gayest castles in the air that were ever piled far better for comfort and for use than the dungeons in the air that are daily dug and caverned out by grumbling, discontented people. A man should make life and nature happier to us, or he had better never been born."
Emerson.

The early Christians didn't exactly celebrate their birthdays. They kind of shared similar sentiments as did the Gnostics in regards to "never should have been born" or "[I] curse the day [I] was born".

........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

Hi Zarove.

Well(s), that's my point, exactly. What should we expect from them godless types?

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

What they think about us, Rod:

Atheists and humanists

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

"BEAUTY AND TRUTH--

The most natural beauty in the world is honesty and moral truth.--For all beauty is truth.--True features make the beauty of the face; true proportions, the beauty of architecture; true measures, the beauty of harmony and music"
Shaftesbury.

"EVEN VIRTUE

is more fair when it appears in a beautiful person."
Virgil.

I think many would debate the signifance of superficial beauty. It isn't the "in" crowd that matters; it's the "righteous" crowd I would argue.

.....

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

"THE BEST PART

of beauty is that which no picture can express."
Bacon.

Who can argue about that??

....................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

What about beauty is in the eyes of th beholder, Rod.

Or, all roads lead to the same place.

Or better, we are the image of the invisible God.

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

"THE BEAUTY SEEN

is partly in him who sees it."
Bovee.

Bovee's quotation is pretty much the same as the "in the eye of the beholder" quotation, Elpidio. Let's not forget the far and near sighted folks when we ponder on Bovee's quip.

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

On the link that Elpidio provided titled Atheists and humanists I found the information on Christian Violence intriguing and disconcerting at the same time. Some of the conclusions the author makes about Christianity sounds like the conclusions I've read that some Christians make about Islam. "Sure, the religion talks about peace, but there is something about it that encourages violence," seems to be what was said there.

Guess this illustrates why it is so important to live as Christians and not just pay lip service to Christ's teachings. Don't give your enemies anything to convict you with.

-- Andy S ("aszmere@earthlink.net"), May 20, 2004.

"I WILL NOT FOLLOW

where the path may lead, but I will go where there is no path, and I will leave a trail."
Muriel Strode.

Well, so much for "all roads lead to the same place".

......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

"THIS

is the final test of a gentleman: His respect for those who can be of no possible service to him.
William Lyon Phelps.

That's a rather arrogant view of self. Dig the last name.....hm....I wonder if that could be......naw....what was I thinking??.

.......

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

"FIRST--

When Leonardo da Vinci resolved to paint the Last Supper, he threw all his energies into the work. He labored early and late. No pains were spared by him. He pondered devoutly those pages of the New Testament which record the first sacramental feast, in order that he might do his best to realize and reproduce the memorable scene. At length his task was done. Having given the finishing stroke, he invited a few confidential friends to a private inspection. They gazed attentively, and various remarks were made. An observation from one of them, however, led, as will be seen, to unexpected results. He spoke with great admiration of a golden chalice represented as being on the table at which our Lord and His disciples sat. Its shape, color, size, were all that could be desired. "That," exclaimed the critic, "is the most beautiful object in the picture." Hearing what was said, the artist took up a brush, and dipping it in black paint, deliberately smeared it over the whole canvas. He soon explained it--"If," said he, "what you tell me is true, then my picture is a failure, for I meant my Master's face to be the chief and most beautiful object."

All are artists; a good or bad picture each of us is painting--the picture of life. Too often, alas! men make inferior things the most conspicuoous objects on the canvas of their daily history, bestowing rich colors and careful handicraft upon trifles. But the Saviour should be the grand center of our souls, and should have our chief and first attention."
T. Stevenson.

Yes, a Catholic and a non-Catholic will read Stevenson's small account and once again walk away with more dissimilar renditions of da Vinci's intensions and the significance of the artwork. Absence of the chalice has some very strong implications for all, thou

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

"ENLIGHTENMENT--

The Bible as a book stands alone. There never was, nor ever will be, another like it. As there is but one sun to enlighten the world naturally, so there is but one Book to enlighten the world spiritually. May that Book become to each of us the man of our counsel, the guide of our journey, the inspiration of our thought, and our support and comfort in life and in death."
A. Galloway.

"Sola Scriptura", anyone? Galloway pretty much personifies the "Book" as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in his writing. I smell idolatry.

..

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 20, 2004.

Elpidio , thx for the link , ....

but gi'me a 2 weeks to read all ,'cause it's a lot stuff to study !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), May 21, 2004.

You're welcome, Laurent.

I know everyone wants you to become a Christian belever os sorts, Laurent.

Not me.

The reason I felt you posted at the Catholic Forum was because you wanted to make sure you have made peace with the Catholicism you have left as a young person.

I finally made peace with my Catholicism in 2003. John Gecik, Eugene Chavez,... had a lot to do with it. I took what I felt was good and necessary. -Praying for people using candles, -Believing in miracles. -Believing in a continous prophecy -Holding all life sacred (no abortion,...) - Confess my sins - .... I discharged what I realized was fake, not scriptural,... --The Trinity --Mary being always a virgin --Jesus born of woman who never had sex with Joseph --La virgen de Guadalupe - fake apparition --Peter the first Pope at Rome( sorry, it was Paul) --.... and in the end , for me , there is no turning back. No regrets this time.

What emerged was a new person who sees life in a new dimension.

You will in the end will reach your own conclusion.

Rod and Jim still working at it. The problem for Rod , he tries to open the door, yet, they keep closing it. Jim also has an open mind, but the Church answer is always one of don't question this dogma,... so and so said,...

In vain , Jesus said of his generation, quoting scripture, they worship me, teaching as doctrines the doctrins of men.

So let the pure worship come to life!!!!

The Christian Yahwist

The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), May 21, 2004.

The Chalice is there. One must know what "Chalice" to look for.

-- J Biscuits (thefilthohgodthefilth@yahoo.com), May 21, 2004.

Elpidio , thx !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), May 21, 2004.

"The Chalice is there. One must know what "Chalice" to look for. "

Ah! see what I mean? "In the eye of the beholder." Some would need to see the chalice and draw inferences from the object. Some don't need to see the object to see the inference. There are various levels of perception. Some need more pictures than others.

........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), May 21, 2004.