How do we get into the True Church of Jesus Christ?greenspun.com : LUSENET : Ask Jesus : One Thread |
How do we get into the True Church of Jesus Christ??
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 22, 2004
1 Cor.12:13 "For by one spirit are we all baptized into one body."
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), November 23, 2003.
Amen David!!!! One is NOT a Christian until they have obeyd the gospel by first Believing the gospel, Repenting of their sins, Confessing their faith in the gospel, AND by BAPTIZED IN WATER for the remission of their sins.
This is the time (in baptism) that the blood of Christ is applied to their soul and they RISE from the waters of baptism a NEW CREATURE.
-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 23, 2003.
Define Gospel, or what you understand by Gospel, Kevin and David. -- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 24, 2003.
The gospel means "good news" The good news is that Jesus Christ has risen. He paid the price for our sin, so that we don't have to. He has risen and He is seated at the right hand of God--
The good news is in the Sermon on the mount!
The Beatitudes represent only the first step toward understanding the Sermon on the Mount. Long after I came to understand the truth of the Beatitudes, I found myself still pondering over the harshness of the rest of Jesus' sermon.
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect," Jesus said, His statement tucked casually between commands to love our enemy and give away everything we own.
Be perfect like God? What could He possibly mean?
When a rich man asked Jesus what he should do to ensure eternal life- - Jesus told him to give his money away! Not 10% mind you, or 50% even- - but all of it.
When a disciple asked if he should forgive his brother seven times-- Jesus replied that he should forgive him him seventy-seven times. Jesus taught the Golden rule as follows: "In everything, do to others as you would have them do to you."
Has anyone ever lived a life as perfect as God? Has anyone ever followed the Golden Rule perfectly? How can we respond to such impossible ideas?
A friend of mine once said that he did not like the "Sermon on the Mount". He complained that it was not easy to read and made him feel like he had to be perfect. "To simply look at a woman lustfully is adultery? Absurd!" he proclaimed.
Jesus said..Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you...
It is easy to love your own brother, to love those who love you, even tax collectors do that! You want me to congratulate you for loving your own? No, love your enemy!
Love the man who would kick you and spit on you. Love the soldier who would drive a sword through your belly. Love the man who robs and tortures you. Listen to me..love your enemy!!
The Sermon on the Mount did not simply puzzle the people of his day. This unwelcomed advice infuriated them!
Jesus' listeners worried about whether Jesus was a revolutionary rather than an authentic Jewish prophet.
Jesus responded to that by saying, "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them...
For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."
That last statement surely made the crowd sit up and take notice. How could their righteousness surpass that of the religious leaders of their day? Pharisees and teachers of the law competed with one another in strictness. They had atomized God's law into 613 rules-- 248 commands and 365 prohibitions!!
And--they bolstered these rules with 1,521 emendations. To avoid breaking the third commandment, "You shall not misuse the name of the Lord," they refused to pronounce God's name at all!
To avoid sexual temptation, they had practiced walking with their heads down and not looking at women. The most scrupulous of these were known as "bleeding Pharisees" because of their frequent collisions with walls and other things.
To avoid defiling the Sabbath, they outlawed 39 activities that might be considered work. How could an ordinary person's righteousness ever surpass that of such *professional* holy men?
Using the Torah as His starting point, Jesus pushed the law in the same direction, but further than any Pharisee had ever dared to push it..further than any monk ever dared to live it. Jesus made the Law impossible for anyone to keep and then charged us to keep it!
"I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement....anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell."
Can any two brothers weather the storms of adolescence without relying on words such as "supid" or "fool"?
"I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
For sure--lust in America has become a favorite pastime, celebrated in ads for bluejeans and beer.
Finally--Jesus even spells out the principles for non-violence. Who could even survive with the rules Jesus laid down?
"Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well."
I think about all these commands and I ask myself how I should respond? Does Jesus really expect me to give all I have to every panhandler who crosses my path?
Should I abandon all insistence on consumer rights? Should I cancel my insurance policies and trust God for the future? Should I give everything I have to the poor--keeping only the clothes on my back?
How can I possibly translate such ethical ideas into my everyday life?
In his response to the rich young ruler in the parable of the Good Samaritan, in his comments about divorce, money, or any other moral issue...Jesus never lowered God's ideal...
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect" he said. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind."
No one has ever completely fulfilled those commands..not Fancis of Assisi, not Mother Teresa, not anyone!
There is only one way for any of us to resolve the tension between the high ideals of the gospel and the grim reality of ourselves.
We need to accept that we can never measure up. That is ultimately what the message of the gospel is. The "good news" is, that we don't have to. The gospel (good news) message is that we are judged by the righteousness of Christ who lives within us the moment we receive him.
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ jesus, because through Christ jesus the Law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering." (Romans 8:1-3)
Jesus, who never lowered God's ideal is also the same Jesus who tenderly offered absolute grace. Jesus forgave an adulteress, a thief on a cross and a disciple who had denied knowing him.
It extends even to the people who nailed Jesus to the cross... "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they are doing."
When it comes to the Sermon on the Mount--I can see that Jesus gave us these words not to cumber us, but to tell us what God is like-- perfect.
Jesus did not proclaim the Sermon on the Mount so that we would despair over our failure to acheive perfection. He gave it to impart to us--God's Ideal toward which we should never stop striving, but also to show us that none of us will ever reach that ideal.
The Sermon on the Mount forces us to recognize the great distance between God and us.., and any attempt to somehow *moderate* its demands--misses the point altogether!
The worst tragedy would be to turn the Sermon on the Mount into another form of legalism; it should rather put an end to legalism. Legalism like the Pharisees' will always fail., not because it is too strict--but because it isn't strict enough.
The Sermon on the Mount proves that before God, we all stand on equal ground. Murderers and temper-throwers, adulterers and lusters, thieves and coveters. We are all desperate, and we have all indeed fallen from God's absolute Ideal.
We have nowhere to land but inside the safety net of grace--God's grace. Jesus Christ is our salvation... a gift from God--by His grace..."perfection" offered--up, in our place.
"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.." (Romans 10:4) ********************** I never said Christ never established his church. I just don't believe his church is the Roman Catholic religion. Sorry.
-- (faith01@myway.com), November 24, 2003.
Oops..disregard last sentence in post above please--that was part of another post and I didn't cut it off. -- (faith01@myway.com), November 24, 2003.
You forgot the kigdom, Faith. Jesus message, the Gospel, was the Kingdom of Heaven: how to enter it. Here, Rod, you can see what was jesus true preaching: the Kingdom of God.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 12:28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
Mat 19:24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Mat 21:31 Whether of them twain did the will of [his] father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Mar 9:1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Mar 10:14 But when Jesus saw [it], he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Mar 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.
Mar 10:24 And the disciples were astonished at his words. But Jesus answereth again, and saith unto them, Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God! Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him [any question].
Mar 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.
Mar 15:43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
Luk 4:43 And he said unto them, I must preach the kingdom of God to other cities also: for therefore am I sent.
Luk 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed [be ye] poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. Luk 8:1 And it came to pass afterward, that he went throughout every city and village, preaching and shewing the glad tidings of the kingdom of God: and the twelve [were] with him,
Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand. Luk 9:2 And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Luk 9:62 And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Luk 10:9 And heal the sick that are therein, and say unto them, The kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Luk 10:11 Even the very dust of your city, which cleaveth on us, we do wipe off against you: notwithstanding be ye sure of this, that the kingdom of God is come nigh unto you.
Luk 12:31 But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Luk 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you [yourselves] thrust out.
Luk 13:29 And they shall come from the east, and [from] the west, and from the north, and [from] the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
Luk 14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed [is] he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God.
Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets [were] until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luk 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. Luk 19:11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.
Luk 21:31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
Luk 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.
Luk 23:51 (The same had not consented to the counsel and deed of them;) [he was] of Arimathaea, a city of the Jews: who also himself waited for the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Act 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.
Act 19:8 And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God.
Act 20:25 And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into [his] lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and [out of] the prophets, from morning till evening.
Act 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all confidence, no man forbidding him.
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
1Cr 4:20 For the kingdom of God [is] not in word, but in power.
1Cr 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Cr 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Col 4:11 And Jesus, which is called Justus, who are of the circumcision. These only [are my] fellowworkers unto the kingdom of God, which have been a comfort unto me.
2Th 1:5 [Which is] a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 24, 2003.
Very Simple, David; The Answer to your question has been the same for 2000 years!
JOIN THE ETERNAL MOST HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH ~ THE TRUE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST!
SACRED TRUTH :
THE ROCK ~ THE PILLAR AND FOUNDATION OF TRUTH ~
THE MAGISTERIUM OF THE 2000 YEAR OLD MOST HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH SAYS :
THE CHURCH IS ONE
What are these bonds of unity? Above all, charity "binds everything together in perfect harmony." (Col 3:14) But the unity of the pilgrim Church is also assured by visible bonds of communion:
profession of one faith received from the Apostles;
common celebration of divine worship, especially of the sacraments;
apostolic succession through the sacrament of Holy Orders, maintaining the fraternal concord of God's family.
"The sole Church of Christ, [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter's pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it. . . . This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."
The Second Vatican Council's Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ's Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 24, 2003.
Join the Catholic church james? I thought you said the Most Holy Catholic church was established by Jesus 2000 years ago? If that were so, the catholic church would be the "default" church that any new believer anywhere is ADDED TO BY GOD. Therefore, to join the catholic church would mean that it is just division of christianity, not the true church. -- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), November 25, 2003.
Elpidio... I am not sure why you ignored my response and simply brought up the Kingdom of God as if you had a point or something?
The Kingdom of God is here today, and growing everyday, with new saved souls being added daily. This is the true church of Jesus Christ. Jesus will come and establish this Kingdom in the physical after every Gentile has come in at the end of the age.
What does this have to do with the topic which was "what is the gospel?"..which I replied was the "good news."
-- (faith01@myway.com), November 25, 2003.
Luke said, "Join the Catholic church james? I thought you said the Most Holy Catholic church was established by Jesus 2000 years ago? If that were so, the catholic church would be the "default" church that any new believer anywhere is ADDED TO BY GOD. Therefore, to join the catholic church would mean that it is just division of christianity, not the true church." No one is a christian by "default." Christianity is an Act of the Will. Therefore, is no such thing as a "default" Catholic. Being a Catholic means an ACTIVE Trust and Obedience to ALL the Sacred Teachings of the Magisterium of the Most Holy Catholic Church. Being a Catholic means partaking of the Most Holy Eucharist at least every Sunday otherwise one falls into Mortal sin.
Brand-new experimental denominations are the result of Excommunicated Martin Luther's revolt and heresy against The Church ~ the Most Holy Catholic Church.
The Most Holy Catholic Church is THE CHURCH ~ and NOT a denomination. There is NO salvation outside THE CHURCH (God's Grace provides some exceptions).
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com), November 25, 2003.
I am talking about Spirit Baptism. "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;" Titus 3:5 / KJV -- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), November 26, 2003.
No! God is liar! The Holy Spirit was only given to 1st century belivers! blah blah blah -- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com ), November 26, 2003.
That question was for Kevin and David, Faith. You already know what the Gospel= euangelion in Greek means Good News. But the Good knews refers to God's Kingdom on Earth and over the entire universe.
Happy thanksgiving to you too.
HaThankksgiving to you also Luke.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 26, 2003.
One faith, one baptism, one true church, outside which no one is saved. St. Ambrose: “One is the Baptism which the Church administers: the Baptism of water and the Holy Ghost, with which catechumens need to be baptized... Nor does the mystery of regeneration exist at all without water: “For unless a man be born again of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom “ (John 3:5). Now, even the catechumen believes in the cross; but, unless he be baptized in the name of the Father, and the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, he cannot receive remission of his sins nor the gift of spiritual grace.”
-- Hap (joyful@the bells.com)November 26, 2003.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 22, 2004.
You can't join the Church. You can only be born into it.If you are born of the Spirit, you are part of Christ, a member of His Body.
How can a person be born of the Spirit?
Jesus said: "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.... The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit... For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."
Conversion is a mystery that comes at God's timing. We cannot schedule our spiritual birth anymore than we can schedule our natural birth. We cannot do or say anything physically that causes us to be born of God.
The full manifestation of the Bride of Christ has not occurred yet, since not all who will believe have yet come to believe.
The full manifestation of the True Bride will only occur when Christ returns.
There is such thing as the manifestation of the False Bride, however. She will be manifested as the whore she is (abandoning her Lord) when the False Husband is manifested.
She's gathering her members as we speak, through lying signs and wonders, which will multiply exponentially as the Day nears, until the False Prophet (a certain Bishop) deceives the whole world and pays tribute to the False One as his only Lord, leading all those in unity with the False Prophet into apostasy.
But the Bride of Christ will be glorified when she is revealed, when Christ recognizes her before all flesh as His Beloved.
-- Max Darity (arrowtouch@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.
Actually one must be born of "water" and of the "spirit" to enter the kingdom of God.
-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), August 07, 2004.