1. How many Gods are there in the universe?
A. One B. Two C. Three D. Many
2. The Trinity is . . .
A. Three separate Gods B. One God who took 3 consecutive forms C. One God in three persons D. A completely false doctrine
3. Jesus is . . .
A. God in flesh B. An angel who became a man C. A good man D. A great prophet
4. How many natures does Jesus have?
A. One B. Two C. Three D. More
5. The Holy Spirit is . . .
A. An invisible force like radar B. A divine spark in all of us C. Third person in the Trinity D. A god
6. Sin is . . .
A. There is no sin B. A misinterpretation of reality C. A state of mind D. Breaking God's Law
7. Human nature is basically. . .
A. Good B. Sinful C. Neutral D. Divine
8. In what manner did Jesus rise from the dead?
A. As a spirit B. In the same body he died in C. He did not rise from the dead D. The disciples made up the resurrection story
9. Hell is . . .
A. Right here on earth B. A state of mind C. A place of eternal fire and torment D. There is no hell
10. Heaven is . . .
A. Right here on earth B. A state of mind C. A place of eternal joy and peace with God D. There is no heaven
11. Salvation is . . .
A. A condition of mental awareness B. Within our own essence C. Universal resurrection D. Deliverance from the eternal consequence of sin: damnation
12. Salvation is attained by . . .
A. Grace through faith after all you can do B. Grace through faith C. A state of your mind D. Obeying all of God's laws
13. The Devil is . . .
A. An equal and opposing force to God B. Not real C. A figment of people's minds D. An angel who rebelled against God
14. The Bible is . . .
A. The inspired word of God B. A nice history book C. Full of contradictions and errors D. A story book of metaphors
15. The Rapture is . . .
A. A serious head rush B. A New Age meditation philosophy C. The catching up of God's people into the sky at Jesus' return. D. An Old Testament Jewish feast
16. Adam and Eve . . .
A. Were the first man and woman created by God B. Were evolutionary representatives of homo sapiens C. Are mythological figures D. Never existed
17. How many ways are there to God?
A. Just one. Through Jesus B. Many ways C. As many ways as there are people D. It depends on the religion
18. When you die . . .
A. You go to purgatory B. You go to heaven or hell C. You don't exist anymore D. You are reincarnated
19. Evolution . . .
A. Is how we got here B. Is not a viable option for Christians C. God used evolution to bring man into existence D. Proves there is no God
20. Why did God create us? . . .
A. As an experiment B. He was bored C. To save us, love us, and have us love Him D. For pawns in his cosmic game
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 22, 2004
Answers
I had to add a few of my own answers, David.
Rod's Answers:
1. How many Gods are there in the universe?
A. One
2. The Trinity is . . .
C. One God in three persons
3. Jesus is . . .
A. God in flesh
4. How many natures does Jesus have?
A. One
5. The Holy Spirit is . . .
C. Third person in the
Trinity
6. Sin is . . .
D. Breaking
God's Law(define "law")
7. Human nature is basically. . .
A. Good
(non-Calvinist)
8. In what manner did Jesus rise from the dead?
B. In the
same body he died in
9. Hell is . . .
C. A place of eternal fire and
torment(earth)
10. Heaven is . . .
C. A place of eternal joy and
peace
with God (there is more to this)
11. Salvation is . . .
D.
Deliverance from the eternal consequence of sin: damnation (best
answer, but still lacking more)
12. Salvation is attained by . . .
E. Faith in God thru His Son
Jesus
Christ our Savior and Works.
13. The Devil is . . .
D. An angel
who rebelled against God
14. The Bible is . . .
A. The inspired word of
God
15. The Rapture is . . .
E. A
Protestant interpretation.
16. Adam and Eve . . .
A. Were the first man and
woman created by God
17. How many ways are there to God?
A. Just one. Through
Jesus
18. When you die . . .
A. You go to
purgatory
19. Evolution . . .
E. Is a possibily that
should not shake one's faith because God may create anything in
anyway
that He wishes.
20. Why did God create us? . . .
E. God created us and everything
in the universe because He wanted to. We are His children who are
His most precious creations and He is our most precious Creator. So,
we must love each other as God does..
rod..
..
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November
9, 2003.
1. How many Gods are there in the universe? A. One, but He is not
restricted to or contained within the universe.
2. The Trinity is . . . C. One God in three persons
3. Jesus is . . . A. God in flesh
4. How many natures does Jesus have? B. Two
5. The Holy Spirit is . . . C. Third person in the Trinity
6. Sin is . . . D. Breaking God's Law
7. Human nature is basically. . . A. Good, as are all things God
designed and created.
8. B. In the same body he died in
9. Hell is . . . C. A place [or state] of eternal fire and torment
10. Heaven is . . . C. A place [or state] of eternal joy and peace
with God
11. Salvation is . . . D. Deliverance from the eternal consequence
of sin: damnation
12. Salvation is attained by . . . A. Grace through [active, living]
faith. Faith lacking works is dead, and dead faith does not lead to
salvation.
13. D. An angel who rebelled against God
14. The Bible is . . . A. The [written portion of] the inspired word
of God, as defined by the Catholic Church at the end of the 4th
century.
15. The Rapture is . . . E. A novel 19th century fundamentalist
theory which was never formerly taught within the context of the
Christian faith.
16. Adam and Eve . . . A. Were the first man and woman created by
God
17. How many ways are there to God? A. Just one. Through Jesus. And
there is one way to Jesus, through His Church.
18. When you die . . . B. You go to heaven or hell, though most
saved people enter heaven through Purgatory.
19. Evolution . . . E. Is a biological process with no relevance to
theology or Christian faith
20. Why did God create us? . . . C. To save us, love us, and have us
love Him
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 9, 2003.
I didn't want to break the flow of this thread, but I have to know
this:
Paul-"4. How many natures does Jesus have? B. Two "
I have considered Jesus being half human and half divine, but He is
one not being 50% and 50%. I'm confused.
rod..
..
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November
9, 2003.
Sorry David, you seem to have a faulty Multiple Choice Exam as
proven
by Paul's Correct Answers.
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com),
November 9, 2003.
His correct answers? Right. He thinks human
nature is basically good when the bible tells us it is basically
sinful. Maybe he made a mistake.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com
), November 9, 2003.
Jesus is one Person - as you said, one Being - who had a divine
nature from all eternity, but who took on an additional nature, a
human nature, in the womb of His mother Mary. Jesus is not 50% human
and 50% divine. He has a complete divine nature, which did not
become lessened in any way when He took upon Himself a complete
human nature. Therefore He is fully human and fully divine, not half
and half. Two complete natures - a human nature, full and complete,
just like ours; and a divine nature, full and complete, just like
that of the Father - or rather, the very same nature which the
Father has.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 9, 2003.
rod picked letter 'c' for number 9.
- C. A place of eternal fire and torment(earth)
and adds in parentheses 'earth'.
I do not know why you would do this rod, if you believe hell is on
earth then why did you not pick letter a? You also, like Paul
believe humans a naturally good when we are all sinners.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com
), November 9, 2003.
I understand. These "two natures" would prove the ability for us
humans to have Salvation. Jesus ascended into Heaven both as God
and
as Human, I suppose. This is the evidence that we can understand
for
humans to also enter into Heaven. He is the Way. Had Christ been
only Divine, man would have found some kind of contradiction to
Salvation, I'm guessing.
rod..
..<
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November
9, 2003.
Hi David.I cannot pin point exactly where hell will be. I have
read how it is described, so if every saved soul shall be taken up
to
Heaven, it wouldn't bother me if earth became that hell described in
the Scriptures. It does seem to me that humans can do an efficient
job of making a hell of their lives. The longer they distance
themselves from God, the closer they are to hell--earth.
If man is not good and if God does not create evil, than man is not
evil, but good. Man can choose to deny God and become evil. If man
were created evil, man would never have a desire to do good and obey
God. So, logically, man was created to be good and he is.
rod..
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November
9, 2003.
Genesis 1:31 - "God saw ALL that He had made, and behold, it was
VERY GOOD.
Can a creature change the very nature of something God has created?
The nature of a created thing is determined at the moment it is
created. God determined that everything He had created was VERY GOOD
in nature. That would necessarily include human nature, since humans
were among the things God had created. Of course, man did damage his
relationship with God, and as a result incurred, as a race, the
penalties imposed on Adam and Eve for their willful pride and
disobedience. However, their sin did not change their fundamental
created nature. They were still human, still God's creation, and
therefore still fundamentally good, even though they had sinned. If
they were fundamentally evil, the Holy Spirit could not indwell in
them, or in us. The Holy Spirit can indwell only where goodness is
present.
We each have the same choices before us that Adam and Eve had - to
obey God and grow in our fundamental goodness, or to reject God and
the fundamental goodness of His creation, and invite evil into our
lives. Note that evil must enter us. It is not our innate nature. We
do experience a natural tendency toward evil, called concupiscence,
as a direct result of the sin of our first parents - an imperfection
or weakness which makes evil attractive to us. But our essential
nature as human beings is still as God created it - fundamentally
good. Otherwise we would automatically be cohorts of Satan, with no
chance of, and no interest in spending eternity with God. Augustine
described a "God-shaped space" within each person, which draws that
person toward God, a space which only God can fill. No person is
complete or fullfilled until God rests within. That "God-shaped
space" is a function of our basic human goodness. It could not exist
in one who is fundamentally evil.
The New Testament makes plenty of references to men who are "good".
A few examples ...
Matthew 22:10 - "Those slaves went out into the streets and gathered
together all they found, both evil and GOOD; and the wedding hall
was filled with dinner guests.
Matthew 25:23 - "His master said to him, 'Well done, GOOD and
faithful servant.
Luke 6:45 - "The GOOD man out of the GOOD treasure of his heart
brings forth what is GOOD; and the evil man out of the evil treasure
brings forth what is evil
Acts 11:23-24 - Then when he arrived and witnessed the grace of God,
he rejoiced and began to encourage them all with resolute heart to
remain true to the Lord; for he was a GOOD man, and full of the Holy
Spirit and of faith.
These good men were those who allowed God to fulfill and complete
their natural human goodness, rather than rejecting their basic God-
given goodness and succumbing to the lure of concupiscience.
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 9, 2003.
My answers:
1. one God (Yahweh, formerly known as El, Ex. 4 and 6).
2. God is one (no trinity).
3. B#
4. B
5) E- God' force
6.D
7. E- Good and Evil. God created man good. See Genesis . We sin. See
Isaiah 53.
8. A or B?
9. E- Place of darkness.
10. C
11. D
12. A
13. E? In Job he is the angel who accuses people before God. For
Jesus, he is the one against God.
14. A and B
15. e- Not in the Bible. That word was created later.
16. C or B
17. A or B
18) Where God's send according to your deeds.
19. C
20. E- Needed companionship that was like him, bu in the flesh . The
angels were like God already in Spirit.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 10,
2003.
Elpidio,
You answered, "God is one (no trinity)."
Questions ???
How did you arrive at that conclusion?
What is your religion?
Where and when do you go for worship?
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com),
November 10, 2003.
James,
at 19: 1)God cannot die. Jesus did.
2) The letters of Paul aways say God lifted up,
resurrected, or rose jesus from the dead.
At 33. Greek says parthenos(virgin), Hebrew says alma(woman) in
Isaiah 7:14 , Betulah is virgin in Hebrew. So Jesus could not be
Emanuel. Emmanuel lived in 740 BC, in Isaiah's time. Matthew is
totally mistaken in interpreting this passage. Neiteher Paul or the
other evangelists mention this.
Thus, Jesus cannot be God.
On July 23,2000 by revelation. I spoke to God himself and Jesus. I
was 37. They are totally different.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 10,
2003.
"God cannot die"
A: No, He cannot - UNLESS He takes on human nature. Then He MUST
die, for death is an inescapable characteristic of human nature. God
took on human nature precisely so that He COULD die. If He was not
man, he could not have died. If He was not God, His death could not
have been sufficient to bring about the salvation of the human race.
"The letters of Paul aways say God lifted up, resurrected, or rose
jesus from the dead"
A: Jesus said ... "I lay down My life so that I may take it up
again. No one takes it away from Me, but I lay it down on My own
initiative. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to
take it up again."
and ... "Destroy this temple, and in three days I WILL raise it up."
(John 2:19)
"Jesus could not be Emanuel. Emmanuel lived in 740 BC, in Isaiah's
time. Matthew is totally mistaken in interpreting this passage"
A: Matthew didn't INTERPRET this passage. He WROTE this passage,
under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit ..."Behold, the virgin
shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call His
name Immanuel, which means 'God with us'"(Matt 1:23) Here is a
straightforward statement from the Word of God that Jesus, the Son
of God, is God. The passage does not say Jesus is the same PERSON as
an Old Testament prophet. It uses the literal MEANING of the name
Immanuel to describe Jesus, because it fits Him perfectly.
Here's another passage, where God the father tells us Jesus is
God ... "of the Son He says, "Your throne, OH GOD, is forever and
ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom"
(Hebrews 1:8)
-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), November 10,
2003.
I am just a man. I need to see that a man can truly go to
be with God in Heaven. I need to see that God is with us. When I
see
that Jesus is a man and God, I can see that man can have Salvation.
When I see that Jesus suffered and died on the cross, I see a man.
When I see that Jesus Christ arose again from death, I see God. I
can
see that man can have Salvation and one day enter into the Kingdom
of
God in Heaven with all of his Angels and Jesus sitting at the right
hand of his Father.
rod..
.
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November
10, 2003.
Rod, I heard the same argument from a catholic friend, Chuy, 20
years ago:
If God did not suffer and died for me, I won't believe.
That's the fallacy of believing in God. Understand this Rod, God
doesn't have to die for your sins, since he cannot die.
Only one that can die can atone for sins.Only one that can experience
sin the way we do. That is why Jesus is the Son of God. The Father
has
given the Power to the Son, so those twho believe in the Son can have
eternal life.
For god so loved the world, ..John's gospel.
Isaiah 53, Isaiah 61. I Cor. 15. I Timothy 3.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 10,
2003.
Paul M.
Here is Isaiah Ch.7 in context:
7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a
virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name
Immanuel. Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know
to refuse the evil, and choose the good.Isa 7:16 For before the
child
shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that
thou
abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Taken from the Blue Bible
The Hebrew word is Almah, not Bethulah. The Greek word is Parthenos.
The child, Immanuel is a sign for Ahaz, around 740 BC, not about
Jesus
Christ 740 years later.
Matthew, whoever he is, made a mistake in the translation of Almah.
Bethulah is virgin in Hebrew. See the case of Rebekkah when the
servant of Abraham looks for a wife for Isaac. The word used there is
virgin.thar is, Betulah. Matthew He wasn't inspired, Paul. His book
is
made up from pieces of 96% of Mark and Chap. 5-7, 9-13, 18, 22-24 are
taken from Thomas Gospel, which is not in the Bible.
Paul's letters are before the Gospel of Matthew. Paul never says
Jesus
came out of a Virgin.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 10,
2003.
(Click on any item below for Concordance) (Click)
And the damsel [05291] na`arah
[was] very [03966] m@`od
fair [02896] towb
to look upon, [04758] mar'eh
a virgin, [01330] b@thuwlah
neither had any man 'neither had any man' [0376] 'iysh
known [03045] yada` 8804:
her: and she went down d [03381] yarad 8799:
to the well, ' [05869] `ayin
and filled ' [04390] male' 8762:
her pitcher, [03537] kad
and came up.[05927] `alah 8799:
Genesis 24.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 10,
2003.
Hi Elpidio.
And just as Jesus did not die, but have eternal life, the same will
happen to us. Neither will we die because we shall have eternal
life.
I can see your point, but it isn't a fallacy. It is more of a
mystery. The Gnostics also believed that Jesus never died and never
suffered on the cross. Even when they witnessed His suffering, they
did not connect with Christ being a man-God.
He did suffer, He did die, but He did arise from death. This is the
gift that God gives all men. This is what will happen to those who
believe. God cannot die, true. Man dies. So, how am I to believe
that I will have eternal life? The Gnostics thought it out and came
up with a surreal belief. They did not believe that Christ actually
resurrected into Heaven. How can you and I keep from falling into a
Gnostic theology, unless we believe that Jesus the man-God actually
suffered, died, and resurrected into Heaven? It would be extremely
difficult to believe in an exalted man, Muhammad for example. If
such
a man--Muhammad, a mortal--had the power to go into Heaven and lead
Jesus and others in prayer, then any man can. This also has a ring
of
Buddism to it. The Mormons also believe in the exalted person, as
they believe that men can be gods. I can't believe such stories.
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November
10, 2003.
You see, Paul M, hebrew makes a distinction for Virgin,
unfortunately, The Greek does not. Whoever wrote Matthew made that
mistake in the traslation.
It is hard to believe a scribal error in translation had made
Christians believe Jesus is God himself.
Notice this very old creed:
1Cr 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I
preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye
stand;
1Cr 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I
preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Cr 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also
received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the
scriptures;
1Cr 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose
again
the third day according to the scriptures:
1Cr 15:5 And that he
was
seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Cr 15:6 After that, he was
seen
of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part
remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Cr 15:7
After
that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Cr 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out
of due time.
1Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be
called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Cr 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace
which
[was bestowed] upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more
abundantly
than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Cr
15:11 Therefore whether [it were] I or they, so we preach, and so ye
believed.
1Cr 15:12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how
say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?
1Cr
15:13 But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ
not
risen:
1Cr 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then [is] our
preaching
vain, and your faith [is] also vain.
1Cr 15:15 Yea, and we are
found
false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he
raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise
not.
1Cr 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ
raised:
1Cr 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith [is] vain; ye are
yet in your sins.
1Cr 15:18 Then they also which are fallen
asleep in
Christ are perished.
1Cr 15:19 If in this life only we have
hope in
Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Cr 15:20 But now is
Christ risen from the dead, [and] become the firstfruits of them that
slept.
1Cr 15:21 For since by man [came] death, by man [came]
also the
resurrection of the dead.
1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die,
even so
in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Cr 15:23 But every man in
his own
order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at
his
coming.
1Cr 15:24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have
delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have
put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Cr 15:25 For he
must
reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Cr 15:26
The
last enemy [that] shall be destroyed [is] death.
1Cr 15:27 For
he
hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are
put under [him, it is] manifest that he is excepted, which did put
all
things under him.
1Cr 15:28 And when all things shall be
subdued unto
him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all
things under him, that God may be all in all.
1Cr 15:29
Else what
shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not
at
all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
1Cr 15:30 And why
stand
we in jeopardy every hour? T1Cr 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing
which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
I Corinthians 15 is the second oldest creed about the Gospel of Jesus
Christ in Paul's letters. The other is in Galatians. He never wrote
Hebrews, Paul.
You can see in the bold areas, that Paul says Jesus will be subject
to
the Father,God.
This tells you two things: Paul still believed as a Jew that God is
Unique.
That is why Jews still accepted him as a Jew. If he had preached to
them Jesus was God himself, they could have killed him everytime they
saw him.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 10,
2003.
I have read that the Book of Thomas may have utilized the Synoptic
Gospels to compile his book, according to some books I've read. So,
there seems to be grounds for strong debate in your statement:
"His book is made up from pieces of 96% of Mark and Chap. 5-7,
9-13, 18, 22-24 are taken from Thomas Gospel, which is not in the
Bible. "
I've mentioned before that the Book of Thomas may have been written
in
order to convert the Gnostics, at least this is what one author
asserts.
rod..
..
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November
10, 2003.
Elpidio said, "That's the fallacy of believing in God."
Man, you have some major theological flaws.
May God shed His Light upon you.
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com),
November 12, 2003.
bump
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 22, 2004.
James, God actually did shine his light on me, twice.
So I don't have a theological flaw, but a theological awakening.
The first time was in July 23, 2000. He gave an order. My face was
shining like a light bulb when I was talking to him in English and
Spanish. By the way, I called him Yavé. He didn't mind.
The second time was in October 2000. Of this one my wife was a
witness. She saw my face shining like a light bulb. Then the light
disappeared. Then she woke me up. It was about 2:30 am. She asked
what my dream was about. She wanted to know why my face was shining.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 12,
2003.
Rod, besides Thomas Gospel, we have the Book of Thomas, The Gospel
of
The Ebionite, The Gospel of The Hebrews, The Gospel of The
Egyptians,
the Gospel of Mary, The Gospel of Phillip,...who corraborate some of
Jesus sayings in amore ancient form.
Notice the way Matthew is: Chpters 5-7 form a unit. This corresponds
to the Unit of the first sayings of Thomas 1-16.
Matthew's ch 1-4 are in Luke's:The temptation corresponds to Luke's.
The geneology is totally different: In Matthew Jesus goes to Egypt,
in Luke to nazareth. In Luke herod tries to kill Jesus, In Luke no.
In Matthew there are Magi. In Luke shepherds. Even the ancestors are
different.Nocorrespondence from Thomas or Mark.
Matthew's next unit is ch. 8-12. It is mostly about miracles. It
corresponds to Mark and Luke.
The next unit is ch. 13-18. It correesponds to Thomas, Mark, and
Luke.
These are sayings.
Next Unit is ch. 18-24 . The eschatology section. It corresponds to
Mark and Luke.
Ch. 25-28 to Mark and Luke.
Matthew is the most organized Gospel. Thus, it couldn't be the
first,
Rod.
I believe Matthew made up some sections to make some of Jesus life
situations match scriture:
Jesus seen by Magi? to fit Isaiah.
Jesus called a Nazorean? Not in the Bible.
Jesus tempted by satan? to fit Deuteronomy. Mark, the original
doesn't have it.
And the list goes on....
That is why Rod I try to see patterns, to find the truth where truth
is sometimes disguised.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 12,
2003.
Just make one thing very clear to me, Elpidio. Tell me that you
have
no desire of believing as a Gnostic believes. Then we can iron out
the
"exalted' issues.
rod..
..
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November
12, 2003.
Elpidio,
Lucifer's face shone as well ~ and more than a light bulb ~ but He
is
in direct opposition against the Sacred and Infallible Teachings of
the Magisterium of the Most Holy Catholic Church and against the
Will
of the God the Father.
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com),
November 12, 2003.
Rod,
I am no Gnostic.
Jesus did exist. Jesus did really die, not like the gnostic belief
that he only appeared to die.
I believe truly that Jesus was the Christ. That Jesus is the Way.
What I was showing you is that you have to see the Gospels in
another
light. Who wrote them? why were they writte? To whom were they
written? Are there any discrepancies in the sayings of Jesus?.... I
discovered this in 1983 when I tried to make a play about Jesus
life.
I couldn't. Too many contradictions. At least by now I know where
Jesus stood.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 12,
2003.
Elpidio said, "Jesus did exist. Jesus did really die, not like
the
gnostic belief that he only appeared to die. I believe truly that
Jesus was the Christ. That Jesus is the Way."
But you also erroneously believe that Jesus is 0%God.
Elpidio said, "Are there any discrepancies in the sayings of
Jesus?.... I discovered this in 1983 when I tried to make a play
about Jesus life. I couldn't. Too many contradictions. At least by
now I know where Jesus stood."
It is simply unthinkable for Jesus, The Truth, to contradict
Himself,
the same Jesus, The same Truth.
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com),
November 13, 2003.
The day, James you see the Gospel of John in a different light and
understand the erroneous mistranslation of Almah in Isaiah 7:14 for
Virgin then you will realize we as Catholics have been told a big
lie: We have made Jesus God himself when he is not.
Jesus cannot be both Son and Father at the same time the same way I
am a Son and a Father. I am the son of my father, and father of my
sons.
Jesus couldn't be because he died.
The Gospel of John has many discrepancies Jesus and God.Some
passages
imply Jesus is God. Others say the Father is greater. Jesus even
calls him his God after the resurrection how could that be if he is
God himself?
It also has discrepancies in the area of preaching. In the synoptics
he does around the lake in the land of Galillee.
In John he does his miracles in Jerusalem.
I believe, James, John is like Matthew: a composition of a Gospel
some call signs, and I call Phillip, and the first chapters of the
letter of John.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 13,
2003.
Hi Elpidio.
"What I was showing you is that you have to see the Gospels in
another light. Who wrote them? why were they writte? To whom were
they
written? Are there any discrepancies in the sayings of Jesus?"
Here is our similarity, as I'm sure we too share with many. This is
what lead me to the Gnostic writings. I couldn't find what I was
looking for in the many doctrines/denominations. Those writings are
interpretations of Scriptures. But, when I read the Gnostic
writings
I begin to get a deeper understanding for the Holy Bible. The Holy
Bible is written is such a way that it tears down any theology that
may be false. Although the Book of John may seem to have Gnostic
residue, it really does destroy Gnosticism. That's one example.
But, if I begin to study the Bible from the other view, I would have
to accept the "other gospels" as the truth. This would mean that
the
origins of Christianity are merely humanistic ideologies disguised
as
theology. There may be some truth in those "other gospels", but we
would have a difficult time combing through that information. I
have
enough information sitting in my library to keep me busy for too
long
of a time. It is difficult!
rod...
-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November
13, 2003.
It takes time Rod to see the real stuff from Jesus from waht others
thought he said.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 13,
2003.
Elpidio,
For the purpose of Clarity:
Christians believe that Jesus Christ is 100%Man and 100%God. You do
not believe that. Therefore, you are NOT a Christian.
Pagans believe that Jesus Christ is not God. You believe that.
Therefore, you are a Pagan.
Catholics believe that The Most Holy Eucharist Really contains the
Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. You do not believe
that. Therefore, you are NOT Catholic.
Apostates do not believe that the Most Holy Eucharist contains the
Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ. You believe that.
Therefore, you are an Apostate.
Do you deny any of the aforementioned conclusions?
Do you assert otherwise?
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com),
November 15, 2003.
An I a Christian?
Some beliefs of Christians:
Yes. I believe that Jesus is the man God sent to save humanity.Luke
1-
2.
Yes. I belive in the resurrection.I Corinthians 15.
Yes. Jesus died for our sins.
This was Paul defense in Acts 24-28.
Paul never used the word God or the word transubtantiation as part
of
being Christian. Neither did he say you have to believe Jesus was
born of a Virgin. Neither did he say Mary was sinsless.
I rest my case on the Apostle Paul.
Thus, I am a Christian.
Am I an apostate? Yes, from Catholicsm and Protestantism.
Does God or Jesus consider me an apostate?
No, They gave me a commission to preach to Protestants and
Catholics.
This was on July 23, 2000. Ratified in October 2000, July 2002.
I am the Man Of Yahweh.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 15,
2003.
Elpidio,
Jesus Christ is God, you are calling him a liar.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com
), November 16, 2003.
Elpidio,
Jesus was obviously claiming to be God. But I
doubt you accept this; You have probably heard it a million times
too. I wait to hear what new greek revelations have to say about
Jesus being God. So tell me, where did the Holy Spirit go wrong in
translating the New Testament into English?
"And I give unto them eternal life; and they
shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my
hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no
man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father
are one. Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus
answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for
which of those works do ye stone me? The Jews answered him, saying,
For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because
that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." (John 10:28-33 / KJV)
"But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest
answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that
thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus
saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you,
Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of
power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Then the high priest
rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further
need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
What think ye? They answered and said, He is guilty of death.
(Matthew 26:63-66 / KJV)
"Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto
you, Before Abraham was, I am.(John 8:58 / KJV)
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com
), November 16, 2003.
Protestant theoogy comes from Catholicsm, David. Even if they don't
accept it, Protestants accept the first 7 councils of the Church.
The first makes Jesus God (Nicea), the one in Ephesus fully man and
fully God, the one in Chalcedon, makes Mary the mother of God.
Thus, Protestants make the error of believing Jesus came from a
Virgin, not true (a false translation), and making him God.
For every passage you can show Jesus says he is God, I can show one
which says he isn't.
The apostle Paul wasn't rejected by the Jews for saying Jesus was
God, but by saying Jesus was the Messiah.
Act 28:17 And it came to pass, that after three days Paul
called
the chief of the Jews together: and when they were come together, he
said unto them, Men [and] brethren, though I have committed nothing
against the people, or customs of our fathers, yet was I delivered
prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans.
Act 28:18 Who, when they had examined me, would have let [me]
go, because there was no cause of death in me.
Act 28:19 But when the Jews spake against [it], I was
constrained to appeal unto Caesar; not that I had ought to accuse my
nation of.
Act 28:20 For this cause therefore have I called for you, to
see [you], and to speak with [you]: because that for the hope of
Israel I am bound with this chain.
Act 28:21 And they said unto him, We neither received letters
out of Judaea concerning thee, neither any of the brethren that came
shewed or spake any harm of thee.
Act 28:22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest:
for
as concerning this sect, we know that every where it is spoken
against.
Act 28:23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came
many to him into [his] lodging; to whom he expounded and
testified
the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of
the
law of Moses, and [out of] the prophets, from morning till
evening.
Act 28:24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and
some believed not.
Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they
departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy
Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
Act 28:26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye
shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and
not perceive:
Act 28:27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and
their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed;
lest
they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and
understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should
heal them.
Act 28:28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation
of
God is sent unto the Gentiles, and [that] they will hear it.
Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed,
and had great reasoning among themselves.
Act 28:30 And Paul dwelt two whole years in his own hired
house, and received all that came in unto him,
Act 28:31 Preaching the kingdom of God, and teaching
those things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ, with all
confidence, no man forbidding him .
As you can see, my Dear David, Paul says ne never preached anything
against the traditions of his people. This includes the heresy of
saying Jesus is God. HPaul could never say these words: Jesus is God
himself.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 17,
2003.
Jesus calls God Father. Thus, Jesus is not God.
Jhn 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to
heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that
thy
Son also may glorify thee:
Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he
should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee
the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Jhn 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished
the work which thou gavest me to do.
Here, David, Jesus pray to God, as he lifts his hands to heaven:
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own
self
with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Jhn 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou
gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them
me;
and they have kept thy word.
If he prays to God, then he is not God.
Jhn 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and
saith
unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
Jhn 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet
ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I
ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your
God.
Here Jesus calls God Father and my God. Thus, he cannot be God.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 17,
2003.
For every battle of the warrior [is] with confused noise, and
garments rolled in blood; but [this] shall be with burning [and]
fuel
of fire.
Check this passage David in Hebrew:
Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and
the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be
called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting
Father,
The Prince of Peace.
For unto us a child [03206] yeled
is born, [03205] yalad
unto us a son [01121] ben
is given: [05414] nathan
and the government [04951] misrah
shall be upon his shoulder: [07926] sh@kem
and his name [08034] shem
shall be called [07121] qara'
Wonderful, [06382] pele'
Counsellor, [03289] ya`ats
The mighty [01368] gibbowr
God, [0410] 'el
The everlasting [05703] `ad
Father, [01] 'ab
The Prince [08269] sar
of Peace. [07965] shalowm
There is no punctuation in Hebrew.
Thus, this is also possible:
A Child is born,a son is given, ...name will be called:
Mighty Counsellor and Mighty God is the Everlasting Father, the
Prince of Peace.
So the emphasis is on the name, not that he is God.
Jewish names have meaning , David.
Here, it means God has made a good choice in choosing Hezekiah to
lead Judah, the House of David.
Jesus means salvation of Yahweh. Isaiah means Yahweh saves. Joshua
is
the same as Jesus. These 3 men saved their people in times of trial,
in times of danger, or from our sins.
Who is Isaiah talking about in this passage? King Hezekiah.
Isa 9:7 Of the increase of [his] government and peace [there
shall be] no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to
order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from
henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform
this
The word forever doesn't mean the same in Hebrew than it does in
English. Olam means for un udetermined amount of years.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 17,
2003.
Elpidio wrote, "Jesus calls God Father. Thus, Jesus is not God."
That is NOT the truth according to the word of God.
John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God, and the WORD WAS GOD." This is speaking of Jesus Christ.
It is interesting to note that doubting Thomas referred to Jesus as
God when he said, "And Thomas answered and said to Him, "MY LORD AND
MY GOD!" (John 20:28).
The apostle Paul KNEW that Jesus WAS God for he said in Titus 2:11-
13,
"For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men,
teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should
live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, looking for
the blessed hope AND GLORIOUS APPEARING OF OUR GREAT GOD AND SAVIOR
JESUS CHRIST,"
The apostle Peter KNEW that Jesus WAS God for he said in 2 Peter 1:1,
" Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those
who
have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness OF OUR
GOD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST:"
God the Father KNOWS that Jesus is God for He PLAINLY states this as
a
FACT in Hebrews 1:8-9 when He says, "But to the Son He says: Your
throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the
scepter of Your Kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated
lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil
of
gladness more than Your companions."
To claim that Jesus is NOT God really PROVES that Elpidio does NOT
know what he is talking about.
-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com),
November 18, 2003.
John 1:1 lacks ho(the) in the word theos:
in Kai Theos and ho logos.
Thus, it makes the word also an adjective: divine. That is, The Word
is divine.
See Hebrews again:
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness
more than Your companions.
God (Yahweh)has anointed God (Jesus). The writer calls God (Yahweh)
the God of Jesus. Thus, Jesus cannot be God.
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 18,
2003.
Elpidio,
There you go again arguing in greek and word
meanings. You are just a man, and the Word of God tells us
"let God be true, but every man a liar;" (Romans
3:4 / KJV)
We cannot trust man and his traditions.
"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth
pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till
all be fulfilled." (Matt. 5:18 / KJV)
"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words
shall not pass away." (Matt 24:35 / KJV)
"For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of
man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower
thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever.
And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you." (1
Pet 1:24-25 / KJV)
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com
), November 18, 2003.
David, you said
let God be true, but every man a liar;" (Romans 3:4 )
So I say to you, my son,
You are a man, thus, you are a liar. Should I then trust you?
-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), November 18,
2003.
David said, "We cannot trust man and his traditions."
I agree, David.
We cannot trust man and his traditions.
We cannot trust Luther and his traditions.
We cannot trust Calvin and his traditions.
We cannot trust Knox and his traditions.
We cannot trust Zwingli and his traditions.
We cannot trust Wesley and his traditions.
We cannot trust Smith and his traditions.
We cannot trust Hinn and his traditions.
BUT
We can trust God and His Sacred Traditions in The Church ~ The
Most Holy Catholic Church.
We can trust Jesus (100%God & 100%Man) and His Sacred Traditions in
The Church ~ The Most Holy Catholic Church.
We can trust God the Holy Spirit and His Sacred Traditions in The
Church ~ The Most Holy Catholic Church.
-- james (elgreco1541@hotmail.com),
November 18, 2003.
-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), May 22, 2004.
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