Recently, I inadvertently deleted a thread with this title. I will re-create it here for everyone to read.

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004

Answers

I know that exorcist was one of the minor orders and exorcisms can be performed by laity. However why is the solemn rite reserved to the priesthood? Any one know?

Asked by Hugh (Hugh@inspired.com)

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

But Deacons act in persona christie as well. Priest is related to sacrifice, this doesn't have anything to do with that. Next explanation please.

Answered by Hugh (Hugh@inspired.com)

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

Here Hugh, maybe this will help: http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/EXORDEV.htm

Answered by Ed

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

simple: the power to cast out demons, as with the power to enact the eucharistic rite, was given as an apostolic power by Christ to his ordained priesthood, the original twelve diciples.

that power is given today, by the bishops to specific priests who are then excoricists. in one way it is like the apostolic powers that every priest has, however it MUST be declared that that priest specifically has that ability. no non excorcist is ever recorded as having successfully cast out a demon, showing ever more proof of the reservedness of the power to excorcise demons.

-- paul h (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), May 27, 2004.

While deacons act in persona christi, they do not act in persona christi to the same extent that a priest or bishop does. As Christians we all act in persona christi. At our baptism, as declared followers of Christ, we all have three titles bestowed upon us - priest, prophet and king. As priests we are all called to minister to God’s people. A priest or deacon however, by ordination, is formally called to minister in different ways from the priesthood of the laity. In turn, a deacon in being bestowed the lowest form of the Sacrament of Holy Orders, is formally called to ministry in different ways than a priest is. (LG28) We all experience in persona christi to different degrees.

Priests and deacons share similar duties - to sanctify (preach, witness marriages, preside at funerals, baptize) to a point, but only priests can consecrate the Eucharist, absolve sins in confession, administer the Sacrament of the sick. This differentiation has existed from the days of the apostles when they appointed the first deacons. Full ministry is not the intended purpose of the role of deacon. Only priests and bishops roles are designed to carry out the full duties of a pastor (Can. 521.1) even though a deacon shares in some pastoral duties. (CCC 1585) The deacons role is to help and serve as a subordinate.

Both duties (priest, deacon) have missions in the Church that are particular to their title to build up the people of God, (CCC 1534) yet, each are different. There are three levels or degrees in the Sacrament of Holy Orders - Episcopate (College), presbyter, and diaconate. Bishops, priests and deacons all care for the people of God proportionate to their rank. Clearly deacons do not enjoy the same level of ordination and “in persona christie” that priests do. In CCC 1596 we are told “Deacons are ministers ordained for tasks of service of the Church; they do not receive the ministerial priesthood, but ordination confers on them important functions in the ministry of the word, divine worship, pastoral governance, and the service of charity, tasks which they must carry out under the pastoral authority of their bishop.” Here is clear indication that deacons are limited to what they can do and that their services are solely at the disposal of the Bishop and the priest/pastor as they see fit. (CCC 1554) In the instance of exorcism, the Church has assigned exorcisms to the higher degree of ordination - the priest, as they have for forgiveness of sin, Sacrament of the Sick, etc.

The role of the deacon in the Church is secondary to that of the priest. His service is different. A priest formally represents Christ (consecration of Eucharist, exorcisms, etc.), (CCC 1549) while the deaconÂÂ’’s roles is seen more as one of subordinate service, completing tasks for the Church as the Church deems necessary. Deacons do not receive the ministerial priesthood, but only have important functions conferred upon them. (CCC 1596). Lumen Gentium (29) tells us that deacons are not called to priesthood, but to ministry. This, by virtue of their defined role in the Church, prevents deacons from performing exorcisms. Their role in the Church has been designed to perform a different function than that of priest. Their role has been designed not to duplicate the functions of a priest but to complement them.

Answered by Ed

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

According to the Bible, all Christians can excorsize demons in Jesus's Christ's name. Stop reading Catholic Canon, and the Catechism, and open up your Bible.

Answered by marcin of chicago (none@existant.com)

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

Open up a Bible, but don't worry about non-Catholic interpretations of the Bible. All Christians stands for Catholic Christians only. The others are fallen away Catholics. Marcin's own ancestors were Catholics, unless they came out of Asia or Africa, and left a pagan past behind.

A Catholic can 'chase away' evil spirits; by prayer and sacramentals. But not just anybody can free someone who is diabolically possessed. Even if he/she tries, the evil spirit can launch a furious counter-attack on that person. It can be very dangerous.

Why? Beacuse all of us are sinners. The devil uses our human frailty to defend himself, especially when free lance exorcists try what they aren't supposed to do. Just about a month ago, here in the U.S., a child died because amateurs were attempting to 'exorcise' her. The devil definitely has power to retaliate against those of imperfect faith. It always requires a priest of extraordinary holiness and great experience to drive out a devil. Even then it may take him repeated attempts; and remember, --The priest really has the power. He has power from above; not from just 'opening a Bible.' that's ridiculous.

Answered by eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net)

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.net), May 27, 2004.

Your at a Catholic forum. Why would you expect anything other than the "Catholic Canon?" I think you will find what you are looking for only at the Marcin forum.

Answered by j (furst@flash.net)

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

Joke or an aside --

When the Anglican church changed/updated its exorsism ritual, I did wonder if it had been field tested to be at least as effective as the old one.

But I have been near QC/QA departments for quite some time.

Answered by Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com)

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

please, marcin, show us where in the bible it states that all christians can perform excorcisms...

Answered by paul h (don'tSendMeMail@notAnAddress.com)

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

I would suspect to look in Paul's writing were he saids that some have different gifts but it is the same spirit that gives them. Thus, even if Christ was the first to exorcise a demon (I lack a solid OT history or concordance right now), and his apostles and disciples (12+70+?) could do so sometimes, by the time the gift was spread out in the people, some may have healing and some not, some discernment and some not, and some have exorcism and some not, but not by hierachial level, but by the gift of the spirit.

Kinda just for the sake of arguement, and because the arguement does fly at first level.

Sean Answered by Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com)

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

Just read eugene c. chavez's answer. This feels right. I would find doing an exorcism to be scary. Maybe too much of reading the Exorcist. But even determing that one is needed takes unusual discernment. Best left for the pros.

Actually if you have never done one, how do you know you have the talent for it? I would suspect that a blotched exorsism would be a nasty thing.

And if it was not needed, if the cause was other than possition, than you could do terrible damage to the person you are trying to exorsise. Likely the kid died of this, not the exorsism.

Sean

Answered by Sean Cleary (seanearlyaug@hotmail.com)

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

That should be everything I have managed to save. I've missed a post or two. They have been lost permanently. Sorry for my gaffe!

-- Ed (catholic4444@yahoo.ca), May 27, 2004.

woops, ed, i didnt know you were filling it all in and added a new post up there in the list... wanted to let you know...

-- paul h (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), May 27, 2004.

"As Christians we all act in Persona Christi."----ED

That's the argument a feminist would give for women's ordination.

-- joe (sandun@hotmail.com), May 27, 2004.