Could someone tell me if (as catholics) we are to believe in the Rapture? *I am reading the 'Left Behind' series of books (on book 7) and wonder why the church does not teach anything about the Rapture taking place? Will we be 'Left Behind' as Catholics? Im confused.. (Yes, I am catholic)

-- Lori K (me@myhowz.com), June 29, 2004

Answers

The Catholic Church doesn't teach what you find in the "Left Behind" series because the Catholic Church teaches only Christian truth, not popular fiction. What is presented in these novels directly contradicts not only the consistent teaching of the Christian Church for 2,000 years, but also the Bible (no surprise there, since the Bible came out of the teaching of the Church). Rapture theory was dreamed up by a couple of itinerant fundamentalist preachers in the 18th century, but didn't have any major influence on Protestant theology until the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The teaching of the Catholic Church dates to the 1st century. That's what makes it Christian.

This is not a Catholic vs. Protestant issue however. None of the founders of Protestantism believed in such a theory; in fact, none of them had ever heard of such a thing since the theory had not yet been concocted. And today there are many mainline Protestant denominations who still do not accept such theories as doctrinal truth. For a clear orthodox theological assessment of rapture theory, read "The Rapture Trap" by Paul Thigpen.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 29, 2004.

paul-- i am not challenging what you stated above.

however, didnt the catholic church, over the centuries, add to dogma? for example, the whole thing with Mary came about within the last 200 years or so, right? thats the only example i can think of at this time.

my point is that someone could say this "dogma" about the rapture is correct, and inspired by God much the same way that edicts/dogma/canon comes out of the Vatican.

i hope i made my point without muddling the issue.

-- jas (jas_r_22@hotmail.com), June 29, 2004.

"however, didnt the catholic church, over the centuries, add to dogma?"

A: This is a common misconception. The Church did, at various times, formally define as dogma certain doctrines that it had taught since the beginning, usually as a response to a prominent heresy which attacked that particular doctrine and threatened to cause confusion. Some critics of the Church point to this as "adding to dogma". However, the point here is not if or when the Church defined a certain doctrine as dogma, but rather whether or not the Church actually introduced any new doctrines, dogmatic or otherwise, to the deposit of faith. It did not. The Church's beliefs do not change. A few doctrinal beliefs are raised to the level of dogma, but that does not involve the introduction of anything new, just the formal definition of what has always been Catholic teaching.

"for example, the whole thing with Mary came about within the last 200 years or so, right? thats the only example i can think of at this time."

A: No, the "whole Mary thing" is clearly traceable back to the earliest Fathers of the Church. One specific element of Marian doctrine was defined dogmatically during fairly recent history, but as I said, nothing new was introduced at that time.

"my point is that someone could say this "dogma" about the rapture is correct, and inspired by God much the same way that edicts/dogma/canon comes out of the Vatican."

A: No, they could not, because this is completely new doctrinal matter which was never heard of by the Apostles, by the early Church Fathers, or by any Christian on earth until modern times. The deposit of faith is closed. The fabrication of new doctrine is never valid, and has no similarity whatsoever to the dogmatic definition of ancient doctrinal beliefs that have always been part of the deposit of faith.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), June 29, 2004.

Could someone tell me if (as catholics) we are to believe in the Rapture?

no, its a garbage theory to make protestants feel good about the end of the world... like they won't have to endure it. what we know to be FACT, however, is that Jesus is only going to return once more at the head of an army to destroy the world and cast evil into the lake of fire. the rapture theory denies even the word of Christ because in order for it to take place, Christ would not only come a second time to pick people up, but would come a third time to destroy the world. will we be caught up with Christ when He comes again? yes. will this be before the tribulation? no. will those who are left behind have the chance to repent afterwards? no, they will be judged at that point as chaff... as rams, and will be left on the earth when it is ended.

*I am reading the 'Left Behind' series of books (on book 7) and wonder why the church does not teach anything about the Rapture taking place?

first off, take those books with a grain of salt as they are, as has been said, just fiction based on recent protestant invention. i think round abouts of book nine you will see where the author declares the pope to be the antichrist (so i've heard, im not sure) which seems to me to show quite clearly where the TRUE agenda of the series lies. the catholic church doesnt teach the rapture theory because its a fanciful feel good bedtime story that some protestants like to tell themselves, and the catholic church has always been more concerned with truth than with comfort.

Will we be 'Left Behind' as Catholics? Im confused.. (Yes, I am catholic)

who can say who is saved? the sheep will be seperated from the rams, and the wheat shall be kept while the chaff is discarded. im sure many catholics will be left to be destroyed along with the world, and cast into the lake of fire. at the same time, im sure many catholics will be judged worthy and will enter heaven with Christ at that point. remember, however, this is post tribulation at the very end of the world, not at the so-called rapture. we will all face the final judgement... THAT is what the scripture that the rapture theory is based on TRULY refers to.

-- paul h (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), June 29, 2004.

I am a Christian.

And I must tell you that I hold no stock in telling you my faith. Catholic, Pentacostal, Baptist...all must believe that there is one God the Father who created all, one Jesus the Son who dies for our sins, and one Holy Spirit through which we recieve our power to continue our faith walk. And we all must believe that only through the confession of our sins, repentance and the never ending quest to be like Jesus Himself will we be able to be call ourselves the children of God and recieve His mercy, grace, forgiveness and erternal life.

Revelations chapter 7 says:

"After this I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no man could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands, 10 and crying out with a loud voice, "Salvation belongs to our God who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb!" 11 And all the angels stood round the throne and round the elders and the four living creatures, and they fell on their faces before the throne and worshiped God, 12 saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanksgiving and honor and power and might be to our God for ever and ever! Amen." 13 Then one of the elders addressed me, saying, "Who are these, clothed in white robes, and whence have they come?" 14 I said to him, "Sir, you know." And he said to me, "These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night within his temple; and he who sits upon the throne will shelter them with his presence. 16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; the sun shall not strike them, nor any scorching heat. 17 For the Lamb in the midst of the throne will be their shepherd, and he will guide them to springs of living water; and God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

I take that to mean that we will see the tribulation. We will see hell on earth. But we will also through the strength and power of God and our faith in our Lord Jesus Christ we will be taken out of the picture. Can I say that with the authority of the apostles? I'm sorry to say I can't. But I can say that no matter how the end comes, it all ends in Heaven.

Let Joy and Peace Be Your Shield

PJ:)

-- PJ (j_p_williams44114@yahoo.com), August 05, 2004.

PJ,

To your first paragraph, a resounding AMEN!

Regarding your second paragraph, I believe the tribulation referred to in Revelation 7 is more likely just what we are experiencing now - earthly life with all of its sorrows and pain and hardship and disappointment. Those who stand before the throne of God are those who have come out of the tribulation, in other words those who have passed out of earthly life, and have received eternal salvation as a result of remaining faithful to Christ to the end, in spite of an earthly existence filled with tribulation of many kinds. And once there in heaven, all of the pain and heartache and trials of earthly existence are washed away.

There are many passages in scripture which speak of such tribulation as an ordinary aspect of earthly life, among them the following ...

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. (John 16:33)

"Confirming the souls of the disciples, exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God." (Acts 14:22)

"And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience" (Rom 5:3)

"Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? (Rom 8:35)

"Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer" (Rom 12:12)

"Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble ..." (2 Cor 1:4)

"Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in our tribulation." (2 Cor 7:4)

"For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know." (1 Thes 3:4)

"So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecution and tribulation that ye endure" (2 Thes 1:4)

"I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation ..." (Rev 1:9)

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, but thou art rich ...(Rev 2:9)

So, with so many passages describing tribulation as an ongoing aspect of ordinary earthly life, I see no reason to think that one particular passage about tribulation necessarily refers to a cataclysmic end times event.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 05, 2004.

Paul, without disagreeing with your interpretation, I believe the Church has generally understood this passage to refer primarily to the persecutions the Church suffered under the Roman Empire, and subsequent persecutions. Not forgetting of course that there were more Christians martyred for their faith in the 20th century than in the previous 19 centuries put together.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), August 05, 2004.

Steve,

Without a doubt the situation you describe was the primary source of tribulation suffered by the early Church. But once the Church was freed of persecutions by the Roman Empire, tribulation didn't come to a halt. The Church today still suffers great tribulation, as it has in every age, and will continue to suffer until the end of time.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), August 05, 2004.