Hi! I know that priests are our spiritual leaders, and they are not allowed to marry, but can they date?? Also, (being human), are priests allowed a semi-average lifestyle when not preaching? (ie: Priest goes on vacation for 2 weeks. Can he go bowling, movies, shopping, to the beach...etc etc) Are priests allowed to have friends outside the church? Can priests be friends with congregation members? (Fishing buddys etc) Can a priest go to a party and have a drink? (I am not talking 'wild behavior', I am just curious as to what is allowed and not)

-- Ima Catholic (stillnot@home.net), July 07, 2004

Answers

sorry, 'coupla other questions: who pays the priests salary? How do they determine how much he will make? Does the church buy him a car? When a priest is not in his 'collar' does he still have to introduce himself as 'father'?

-- Ima Catholic (stillnot@home.net), July 07, 2004.

A priest should conduct himself as a role model above all other role models for the sake of himself and his flock.

That said, a priest is a human being and is normal in every other way.

A priest should not have a romantic date (no girlfriends). However, he can and should have friends who are girls.

Some priests are very social, others remain reserved and near contemplative when not conducting there visible duties. Both are acceptable.

My opinion is that the social priest leads. Other priests only manage.

Personally, I have a couple of priests who are friends. Believe me, there normal, great guys. The only difference: their whole hearts, without question, belong to the Lord and service of His people.

God bless,

-- john placette (jplacette@catholic.org), July 07, 2004.

OK, quick overview from the perspective of a former religious seminarian.

Quick answer: In the Latin rite of the Catholic Church, seminarians and priests don't date. In the Eastern rite, those seminarians who feel called to marriage may date. They are then married prior to becoming priests. Only a handful of men go through this track. Most are celibate. The answer is simple: it's NOT a career. It's a calling to imitate Our Lord Jesus Christ who was single and who died on the cross for our salvation: living as he lived and doing his work is a 24/7 life-style which necessarily takes precedence over the responsibilities of marriage and children.

Look, I was a religious seminarian for some years: my whole day revolved around prayer, study, work and community life. About 6 years ago I left the seminary and later I got married. I now have a wonderful wife, 2 children, and a job to take care of. I still try to pray and study, but my primary responsibility is to provide and protect my wife and children. A priest's primary responsibility is to provide spiritual food and protection to the Church, the People of God. It's a very demanding task. If done correctly, it will demand martyrdom (white or red).

So while some men in Eastern Europe can balance family life and priesthood, most can't. And even there, the bishops can't send those men on missions or ask them to do too much because they have to respect the wives and childrens' needs.

OK, back to basics: There are two types of priests: Diocesan and religious.

The Church is as you know, divided territorially into things called "dioceses" (like a state or province) each is headed by a bishop. Each Diocese is then divided geographically into parishes. Each parish is headed by a priest. In the Acts of the Apostles the names are "elder" (bishop)[Timothy and Titus were elders], "presbyter" (priest), and deacons [Stephen etc].

But since the 600's AD extra-diocesan organizations called "religious orders" have existed such as the Benedictines, Dominicans, Franciscans, Jesuits, etc. These typically are composed of priests who live in community and share a common spirituality. And they tend to be international - having branches in more than one diocese.

So in a VERY stretched analogy, the diocesan priests are like "the National Guard" - they come from a given state, train there, and serve in the same state. Only in emergencies do they go outside their state. Their immediate superior is the state governor. So too with Diocesan priests: they come from a given dioceses, go to the local seminary, get ordained there and then spend the rest of their lives working in the same diocese under the diocesan bishop. Only extraordinarily do they go outside.

Religious orders on the other hand are kind of like the Federal army or Marines: they leave their local state, go far away, go through intense training, live in community, share a common espri'd'corps, feel like a band of brothers, and serve wherever the President and their superior orders them to. Many do work in the USA but they're not bound to any state in particular.

In a SIMILAR way, Religious priests have slightly different training and life-styles than Diocesan priests. Both receive the same sacrament of orders, but while Diocesan priests are basically bound to their local bishop and work as pastors in parishes (in very small communities, no larger than 2 or 3 priests together), Religious priests tend to work in schools, hospitals, charities, missions, etc.and they also live in larger communities of like-minded people as themselves which could be as large as a 100 or more (like a monastery).

Religious priests typically have a set schedule of prayers and work to do each day. Diocesan priests have to be self-starters as they have fewer people to depend on and tend to have a much more fluid schedule while taking care of the needs of parishes. Both types of priests say Mass daily, as well as pray the "liturgy of the hours" - a book that is basically the Old and New Testaments arranged in short readings which they pray several times a day, keeping the Psalms, Proverbs, Prophets, Gospels, and Epistles in mind.

Typically a diocesan priest will wake up early, around 6am, say his morning prayers, say Mass around 7am for the parish, have breakfast, then begin work: visiting the sick in the local hospital, visiting the prisoners, taking care of administrative needs in the parish. He'll stop for more prayers at noon, have lunch, pray and study some, then get back to work meeting people, preparing homilies, giving talks, bible studies, religious education courses, etc. hearing confessions, etc until around 7pm or so (obviously it all depends) when he'll have dinner. After dinner he works some more, then does night prayers and goes to sleep.

It may help you to grasp what a priest does by re-reading the Gospel and see what Jesus did and what he preached in the Beatitudes and in the miracles: he preached repentence, the coming of the Kingdom, he preached the need to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the sick and imprisoned... he gave the Apostles the multiplied bread and fish and had them give these to the crowds...

What he did, each priest and bishop must do! Preach the Kingdom, bring people to repent their sins, serve their needs, take care of their souls and bodies...worship God. It's totally NOT a job or career but a life-changing mission.

It IS big and it does require suffering and the cross. But He told us this too: "be not afraid".

-- Joe (joestong@yahoo.com), July 07, 2004.

"they are not allowed to marry, but can they date??"

A: No. The underlying purpose of "dating", though the average teenager doesn't give much thought to it, is to select a mate, that is, to find a partner for marriage.

"Can he go bowling, movies, shopping, to the beach...etc etc)"

A: Certainly

Are priests allowed to have friends outside the church? Can priests be friends with congregation members? (Fishing buddys etc)

A: Certainly

Can a priest go to a party and have a drink?

A: Certainly

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), July 07, 2004.

Ima, I know one thing about you: you definitely didn't attend a Jesuit college!

If you had, you wouldn't have asked about priests being able to go to parties. Jebbies are the drinkingest party animals I've ever seen. And I never saw one at a football game without a hip flask, either.

-- JoeJeff (soon2b@catholic.com), July 07, 2004.

Yeah, but the question was about CATHOLIC priests, Joejeff! ;-)

-- surfin catholic (anonymous@yahoo.com), July 09, 2004.

moderators,

as a jesuit layperson who, i believe, shows merit in fully supporting the entire doctrine of the church, i am highly offended by the above two posts which shamelessly attack one of the Catholic churches high standing religious orders. such attacks were made against the rules during baseless slanders of the Knights of Columbus, and i would like to see the application of that rule extend to the above posters as well.

-- paul h (dontsendmemail@notanaddress.com), July 09, 2004.

AMDG

paul h, the Society of Jesus strives for the Greater Glory of God! They are at the forefront, the interface with the rest of worldly society. It's easy to see why they're the target when people play blame-games, afraid to take on the other team. But, it's ok, because it comes with their job to take hits from all sides. Be assured, and don't worry about it because I am also with you on this. I don't feel to spend much time on a Jesuit defense. Prejudice would prevail against me as also having a "Jesuit" agenda.

God bless!

-- Vincent (love@noemail.net), July 09, 2004.

“who pays the priests salary? How do they determine how much he will make? Does the church buy him a car?”

Priests in a religious order take a vow of poverty and are not allowed to possess any wealth, money or property in their own name. The order provides the (minimal) food, shelter, clothing, transport, etc that they need to perform their duties. The order receives donations and bequests which enable it to do this.

Diocesan priests are paid a salary (much less than the average wage) from the parishioners’ donations each Sunday. Usually the bishop sees that the donations for support of the clergy are put into a common fund so that priests working in poor areas are not deprived of what they need. The diocese may also supply a diocesan parish priest with a car or assist him to buy one. Diocesan priests may own property but like all Christians they are called to live simply. Diocesan priests don’t own the houses they live in (presbyteries), they belong to the parish. Most dioceses provide some kind of nursing home for sick or retired priests but many of them go on working through their 70s or even their 80s. I am speaking of western countries. In poor countries often the diocese can’t provide anything much and the diocesan priests live on whatever they can beg or borrow.

“When a priest is not in his 'collar' does he still have to introduce himself as 'father'?”

“Father” is a courtesy title we give to priests. They’re never compelled to use it when introducing themselves. The Church does tell priests they should let people know that they are priests and wear distinctive clothing. But most priests don’t interpret this as meaning they have to ensure that EVERYONE they meet knows that they’re priests.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), July 13, 2004.

Just havin some fun. No intent to smear the whole order of SJ's. But that said, you must admit that the quality of their commitment to true Catholicism (and obedience to the Pope) does vary from province to province! Georgetown's 70 professors signed a public denunciation of Cardinal Arinse...and nothing happened to them! I know dozens of individual SJ's who are fantastic. But also hundreds of company men who aren't.

So here's the deal: the charism is great and needed. SJs have been saints and can be saints...IF they follow the founder's original spirituality, and IF they obey the Pope and Catholic theology. But many, perhaps a majority have fallen into virtual schism and heresty: Anthony De Mello, liberation theology, syncretism, pro-abortion SJ congressman... liberal SJ universities... something has gone wrong. But what's NOT wrong is their charism and spirituality and original formation: that is the stuff to make saints! If only more were faithful to the treasure they DO have!

If you're a lay man of this spirituality, bravo. I think as a charism blessed by the Church and populated by saints and matyrs, it is fabulous. But the order itself needs some reforming. IMHO.

-- surfin catholic (anonymous@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004.

Same here. Just having some fun. I also have a very high opinion of the Jesuits. They really teach you how to think for yourself, an ability which is in very short order these days.

That said, the reason for my post was to answer Ima's question as to whether priests are allowed to go to a party and have a drink. The truth is, they are allowed. That was my point.

"Shameless attack" ?!? No. It was neither shameless, nor an attack.

-- JoeJeff (soon2b@catholic.com), July 14, 2004.

surfin catholic, what is schismatic and/or heretical about Anthony de Mello? His works inspire me and quite a few others I know. If you're going to accuse him of "syncretism", the same could be said of any mystic.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), July 15, 2004.