This problem has bugged me for quite a long time:

In Genesis, God planned for Man to have eternal life in Paradise. He also told Man to be fruitful and multiply. Well, for how long? Would paradise/earth be able to keep the steady flow of fruitfulness? I imagine the earth becoming over-populated. What then?

Have you ever wonder why the universe is so huge? Some say that it is infinite. Could it be that God intended for the universe to be populated with eternal Man?

Yes, these questions keep me awake at night. So, it seems only right that Man dies, yet his soul lives on forever. What would this world be like without disease and war to bring Man's flesh to and end?

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004

Answers

Sorry, "wondered" and "an" should have been used.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004.

I for one don't htink Adam and eve where immortal. The Bible never relates that they where, and in fact, the opposite seems true.

Geness chapter 3

22. And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

from this Verse we glean that Man HAD NOT yet partaken of the Tree of Life, thus was NOT Immortal. Had man lost his Immortality, then why isit so easily regained?

I think it more likely tat man was not at the time Immortal, and after he sinned, he was not allwed ot become immortal.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), July 14, 2004.

Well, that would bring up another problem:

How can Paradise exist alongside Death?

Does Mortal Man have a place in Paradise?

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004.

Is the universe infinite/eternal?

Is the Big Bang theory bull, barf, and baloney?

We do have accounts of suns dwarfing out and new stars being born (if we are to have faith in cosmologists and astro-physisists). But, there is a nice balance in the decay and regeneration of the heavenly bodies. Is that evidence of an infinite universe? But, why such a huge universe?

When Eve partook of the fruit of knowledge, Man became a victim of self-preservation. He became a technical wonderboy. One day, Man will reach places he never imagined. New populations will exist on distant planets. Does Revelations allude to such an idea? Eternal life continues.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004.

Paradise and Death can coexist, so long as you dotn see Phsyical deaht as nesisarily bad.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), July 14, 2004.

Physical death is not necessarily a bad thing after the promise/offer of Salvation. But, I would consider it inconsistent with Paradise prior to the eating of that forbidden fruit.

Death can be the beginning of true everlasting life with God. But, of course, we need to be sure of Salvation and not go off and do ourselves in by our own judgement. We do have a life to live here in this temporal existence.

So, I suppose that I do agree with your comment about death not being a bad thing, Zarove.

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004.

Rod, you said, it seems only right that Man dies, yet his soul lives on forever.

To which Zarove replied marvelously, coming from a Protestant:

I for one don't think Adam and eve were ever immortal. The Bible never relates that they where, and in fact, the opposite seems true (I fixed it) describing Genesis 3:22.

I also believe that death did not come to this world because Adam and Eve sinned. For that reason I reject Augustine's view that children have to be baptized to erase original sin.

In answer to your question about overpopulation, if humans don't die physically, then the world would be full by now. So God Yahweh made sure creatures on Earth had a death clock mechanism. That is why we age and die.

What would this world be like without disease and war to bring Man's flesh to and end?

and that goes with your other premise on disease and War. War could be avoided, disease prevented, yet, aging has no cure yet.

When flesh and Spirit unite, they become living souls (almas in Spanish). The Spirit takes on the characteristics of the flesh. That is why, after death, some people claim dreaming their relatives who died talking to them the way they remember them.

So Spirits can comminicate with the living under the guise of flesh without the fleshy attributes.

The Christian Yahwist The Man of yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004.

rod said: He also told Man to be fruitful and multiply. Well, for how long? ... I imagine the earth becoming over-populated. What then? ... What would this world be like without disease and war to bring Man's flesh to and end?

I wonder if God did not mean for them to multiply until after the fall took place? Then it was God's second choice (due to human sin). (The first choice being that His creatures that already existed would live forever in bliss with Him.) Under this theory, the Genesis 1 account in which God told them to be fruitful and multiply could be taken as a type of poetic timeline. Notice that they had no children until after the fall.

This is all just speculation, so my theory could have some flaws.

-- Emily ("jesusfollower7@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004.

Interesting!

But, let's also consider the creation of the universe and all of the solar systems out there. It would be "short changed" thinking to consider the idea of other planets not having the potential for life. Why would God create such a huge universe if not for the purpose of providing a dwelling for all of Man? Even if we include the possibility of over-populating this planet to the point of destruction or instinction of Man, the idea of having other planets as part of God's plan would gather some significance that God may expect Man to build the technology to explore and populate himself on other solar systems. It sounds fantastic. We still have the cosmos to reckon with. Why such a huge universe?

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004.

What in the world is "instinction"?? Make that "extinction".

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 14, 2004.

Elpidio wrote, "I also believe that death did not come to this world because Adam and Eve sinned"

I think you need to go back an re-read your Bible and change your belief Elpidio for Romans 5:12 states, "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned"

God plainly states that death entered the world "through sin", that is through the sin of Adam.

-- Kevin Walker ("kevinlwalker572@cs.com"), July 14, 2004.

Kevin,

That's Saul's(Paul's) way of interpretation.

That is not God Yahweh speaking or Jesus speaking.

Paul distinguished between physical death and spiritual death. See 1 Corinthians 15 about the the resurrection. You sow(body dies) corruptible , the incorruptible (Spirit) stays alive.

I call this the pneumaphysical body. Paul did not believe the body was going to be 100% physical after the resurrection.

Now, as to why we die. Another element from nature. Animals have anatomical and genetic make ups very like our own. This proves our physical bodies also originated on Earth.

Animals die.

Did they sinned? No. They don't understand sin. Yet, they still die.

Thus, God Yahweh programmed our bodies to die between 70-120 years. The Bible mentions 70 and 120.

That is why Genesis chapters 1-6 are not true. Humans could not live 600+ years physically.

The Christian Yahwist The Man of Yahweh

-- Elpidio Gonzalez (egonval@yahoo.com), July 15, 2004.

I once read that this world could easily contain every human being that ever lived--if you consider the unused space such as the desert and the ocean.

I think that the new earth will have no sea---

I'm hoping that heaven is so awesome that we just won't notice that there is no sea--because I just love the beach.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), July 15, 2004.

Our planet is not populated to its maximum capacity, yet people starve and people die in wars. (Just an observation.)

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 15, 2004.

Elpidio,

Paul had nothing to do with the interpretation of the verse I quoted.

Yes, this was God speaking through the Holy Spirit.

Paul didn't distinguish between physical death and spiritual death in this passage, that is merely your assumption. Sin entered the world through one man Adam, and physical death entered the world due to his sin.

Animals die because of God's will, they are not physical and spiritual creatures like man.

If Genesis chapters 1-6 are not true, then none of the Bible is true.

In Genesis 7:6, God says "Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters were on the earth."

This is significantly more than your 70-120 years.

God also said in Genesis 9:28-29, "28 And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. 29 So all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years; and he died."

This is also quite a bit more than your 70-120 years.

Noah wasn't the only man to live more than 120 years.

God says in Genesis 11:10-11, "10 This is the genealogy of Shem: Shem was one hundred years old, and begot Arphaxad two years after the flood. 11 After he begot Arphaxad, Shem lived five hundred years, and begot sons and daughters."

Are you going to say these men could not have possibly lived to be 600 years old???

-- Kevin Walker ("kevinlwalker572@cs.com"), July 15, 2004.

Gosh, if somebody could prove anything in the oxygen ratios for early man, there could be an excellent argue for man living as long as 600 years. Some have claimed that such a possibility of a rich oxygen atmosphere could have existed in order to explain why dinosaurs existed and why dinosaurs were humongous. They went on to explain why the dinosaurs became extinct. The oxygen rich atmosphere diminished causing the cells of the big creatures to die off for lack of enough oxygen. Now, how this would connect with the longevity of man?? Who knows, I'm no scientist. But, if the cells are depleted of 02, they die. Logic would probably agree that a higher content of 02 would allow for cells to live longer. Perhaps such a hypothesis may allow for the idea that Man could live 600 years? My question is:

If we can find evidence of dinosaurs (fossil remains), why so few mummified remains of humans?

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-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), July 15, 2004.

By tomorrow, Mr. Rodriguez, you will have a reply for your question addressed to me.

-- (Christian_Moderator@@hotmail.com), July 16, 2004.