I hate my job. I cant believe I spent my life savings for a college degree for this. I want to change careers, but to what field? I have no idea.

I dislike most people I know.

Guess what-- Im gay. Yea, I wouldnt have guessed either. Great, the parents, with their constant criticism and high expectations, are going to LOVE this.

My neighbors are pot smoking, dirty, idiots. Im waiting for their pit bull to break free and maul me. At night its terrifying because I have to HOPE they closed the gate whilst I rummage in my bag for the keys!

Im so alone that I wouldnt know WHAT to say if someone asked me to dance. Ive lost sociability.

I could go on and on, but I'll spare you. Thanks for letting me vent. A while back, someone posted the poem below. I found it recently, and saved it, and it will keep me going:

In difficult times, the Lord will be your wisdom. In troubles, He shall be your rest. In sadness, He shall be your joy and consolation. In weakness, He shall be your strength, and all sufficient grace. In poverty, your abundant supply of riches. In anger, your peace and forgiveness. In all things, He shall be your God, the source of love and blessing to your marriage, that by your oneness, He shall be magnified, testified, and glorified.

-- isabelle (wacko@wacko.com), July 30, 2004

Answers

Nice poem Isabelle. I know that your life may seem dark now, but with faith you can change course. Have you looked into the military as a way to change careers and relieve your burden of debt? Please e mail me if you would like some info or just to unload.

-- nia (niatross49@yahoo.com), July 30, 2004.

Dear Isabelle,
I want to commend you for your openness and honesty. Life can be full of disappointments that we often don't realise the many blessings that God bestows upon us. I want to encourage you that all what you are going through is an opportunity for you to really lean upon the Lord and allow Him to work Himself into your being. Of course, Satan, God's enemy, will do everything to distract us from coming before God and enjoying His presence. Day by day he accuses us. But you and I Isabelle have something that we can stand upon, the powerful, precious, prevailing blood of Jesus Christ. By taking the blood as our base and foundation, we can boldly come before God into intimate fellowship.

What you have opened to us, you can fully open to the Lord. He doesn't want us to just keep everything to us and leave us to try and deal with everything alone. God desires that we become one with Him, giving all our burdens unto Him that we can rest in Him. One of the great miracles is that in the midst of a terrible storm, we can be at rest, because we have, living within us, if we have been regenerated through receiving Christ by faith, we have a life within us that has conquered Satan, sin, death, and all negative things in this universe.

Don't try to muster up strength within you. Just turn to the precious Christ who dwells within you, and allow Him to work through your whole being. Outwardly we may seem defeated, but inwardly, we have the all-conquering, all victorious, all sufficient life of Jesus Christ.

I hate my job. I cant believe I spent my life savings for a college degree for this. I want to change careers, but to what field? I have no idea.

You are not alone in your situation Isabelle. I think most people go through life wondering what their career should be. This very matter you can open it before the Lord, and pray, "Lord, I really don't know what to do, I seek your leading, open the doors you wish to open, and close the doors you would have closed. Lord I trust in your arrangement and your preference, so I ask that you reveal this to me that I can follow you. As long as I am with you Lord, that means everything to me. I would rather walk with you in the dark, than walk alone in the light. Thankyou for all my circumstances. Although I don't understand them, I trust in you, because you know all things."

I dislike most people I know.

Within all of us is a corrupted and torn heart, but the bible says that the Lord will replace our heart of stone with a heart of flesh. He will give us a new heart and a new spirit. What makes us new ? It is Christ Himself. He is new. Everything apart from Christ is old, but Christ is the evergreen. He is ever new. He is fresh, and He is available and near. Often Christians want to learn how to have a "good" marriage, or how to be a "good" person. This is just ethics

Guess what-- Im gay. Yea, I wouldnt have guessed either. Great, the parents, with their constant criticism and high expectations, are going to LOVE this.

Ok four points I'd make about this : 1. We are God pleasers, not men pleasers. So ultimately what we do is to please God. God should never take second priority.

2. We are called to honour our parents, this is God's will. Whenever we speak to them, we should speak with gentleness and with respect.

3. Homosexuality is a sin, and like all sins it offends God and damages our relationship with Him. Regardless of whether this sin makes us feel good or not, we put our preferences aside and amen God's word, which says both in the OT and the NT that homosexuality is sinful in God's eyes. Thus, we need to pray for the Lord to deliver us from temptation and guide us on paths of righteousness. Every sinner ought to do this, that means every person ought to do it. Homosexuals take a lot more heat than other people about their sins, and yes it is sinful, however we need to get real and remember that we're all sinners and we pray to the Lord to deliver us, and we pray for our friends and families that may be struggling with particular sins. Again, I commend you for your openness and honesty about this. Many people keep their weaknesses to themselves and never seek any help.

4. Everything is by life. So we are not here to criticise you or anyone, but to usher you into a life relationship with God, whereby you may receive the dispensing of His divine life to grow within you and make you an overcomer. Your struggle can be used to produce a powerful testimony that may help others in your situation in the future. Don't think all of this suffering need to be in vain.

My neighbors are pot smoking, dirty, idiots. Im waiting for their pit bull to break free and maul me. At night its terrifying because I have to HOPE they closed the gate whilst I rummage in my bag for the keys!

It might be a good idea if you move house. It does not sound like a safe or healthy environment to be in. You will want to be in an environment whereby you can have a life that is enjoyable and in the presence of the Lord. As for your keys, probably a good idea to get a key chain that you can clip onto your trousers. that'll make it easier for you at night time. You could also get a torch to help you see easier. Do you have another entrance to the house which is safer?

Im so alone that I wouldnt know WHAT to say if someone asked me to dance. Ive lost sociability. Maybe you're not the dancing type. That's ok, no worries. Anyways, all I can say is open your heart before the Lord and tell Him what you've told us. Jesus Christ is the great Shepherd, and there's a reason for that. Just follow Him, don't worry about anything else right now. You will be blessed and you will become a great blessing to others.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), July 30, 2004.

Also, Isabelle, just as a post script to my last post, I would thoroughly recommend for you to read the book of Job. It describes a man who went through many sufferings and dealings, and at the end He realises God's glory at the end of it all. If you read it, it can help put a lot of things into perspective for you.

God bless u richly.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), July 30, 2004.

Oliver, let me just clarify, homosexuality is not a sin. Homosexuality is simply not of the order God intended for us to live out procreative lives.

Now, homosexual ACTS are sinful. But God calls all of God's children to find love in their life. If the love they find must be in a chaste homosexual relationship, so be it. Mother Church welcomes that with compassion and understanding.

Isabelle, we've all been there, trust me. Either in the midst of evil circumstances, or stuck in a rut of boring mundane hopless angst, God is there waiting.

Tom Cruise and Penelope Cruz say this in Vanilla Sky: "It's never too late to turn it all around."

You're in my thoughts...

Brian

-- Brian (Brian@Brian.com), July 31, 2004.

"..If the love they find must be in a chaste homosexual relationship, so be it. Mother Church welcomes that with compassion and understanding."

Brian can you show me me where the Church welcomes with compassion and understanding a chaste homosexual relationship? This would be setting yourself up to fall into this evil sin in my opinion. This is probably why gay men are not suppose to be ordained Catholic priest because the temptation would be to great for these men.

Thanks in advance.

-- - (David@excite.com), July 31, 2004.

This is a link to the NCCB's "Called to Compassion and Responsibility."

http://www.nccbuscc.org/sdwp/international/ctoresp.htm#N_33_

Read this excerpt taken from from the NCCB's "Principles to Guide Confessors."

33. NCCB Committee on Pastoral Research and Practices, Principles to Guide Confessors in Questions of Homosexuality (Washington, D.C.: USCC Office for Publishing and Promotion Services, 1973) pp. 9, 11:

"The confessor should encourage the person to form stable relationships with persons of both sexes . . . . Two other elements which should be stressed are regular access to spiritual direction and the formation of a stable friendship with at least one person. One of the greatest difficulties for the homosexual is the formation of such a friendship . . . . If a homosexual has progressed under the direction of a confessor, but in the effort to develop a stable relationship with a given person has occasionally fallen into a sin of impurity, he should be absolved and instructed to take measures to avoid the elements which lead to sin without breaking off a friendship which has helped him grow as a person. If the relationship, however, has reached a stage where the homosexual is not able to avoid overt actions, he should be admonished to break off the relationship."

Hmmmmmmm....

Waddya think Joe?

-- Brian (Brian@Brian.com), July 31, 2004.

Brian,

I think you need to read what you posted again. You are reading into something thats not there.

You said,"the love they find must be in a chaste homosexual relationship, so be it. Mother Church welcomes that with compassion and understanding. "

I read Nothing about welcoming a " chaste homosexual relationship". The Church does not welcome homosexual relationships.

-- - (David@excite.com), July 31, 2004.

This thread is supposed to be about a person's personal suffering. The feelings of isolation and unhappiness. Not about our sex. If Isabelle says she's ''gay'', it must be because some experience she's had made her think so. But she has no ''relationship'' that I can see. Which is excellent news.

She mustn't ever form those relationships. Only unselfish friendships.--- With lesbians?--- It wouldn't be wise for Isabelle to become involved with PRACTICING lesbians; those who might try to seduce her. But a friendship without attachments? It might not hurt her. As long as she practices her faith. God will support her. Her love for all persons around her --INCLUDING those parents who disappoint her so badly-- Her love must always be unselfish.

That's the vocation God sends Isabelle: LOVE thy neighbor, --UNSELFISHLY.

If she prays with all her heart, God will console and keep her. He will turn all impure attachments into filth for Isabelle; which in fact they are. Because God IS pure, and holy. He wishes for us all to be pure and holy; not just gays. Not just Isabelle; but all of us. Not a single one of us should cast stones at another sinner. We have to love Isabelle, and the wayward gay, every unhappy soul.

This life is passing. We will not be unhappy forever, Isabelle. Wonderful things are coming in your life if you love God over everything else; even over your own happiness. Offer it up to Him through the most Sacred Heart of Jesus. He definitely loves you.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), July 31, 2004.

isabelle,

Here is some information on St. Margaret of Cortona that you might find helpful one day copied from a saint website.

MARGARET of Cortona Memorial 22 February Profile Farmer's daughter. Her mother died when Margaret was seven years old, and her stepmother considered her a nuisance. She eloped with a young nobleman from Montepulciano, bore him a son, and lived as his mistress for nine years. In 1274 he was murdered by brigands, and his body dumped in a shallow grave.

Margaret saw the incident as a sign from God. She publicly confessed to the affair, and tried to return to her father's house; he would not accept her. She and her son took shelter with the Friars Minor at Cortona. Still young and attractive, Margaret sometimes had trouble resisting temptation, but each incident was followed by periods of deep self-loathing. To make herself unappealing to local young men, she once tried to mutilate herself, but was stopped by a Friar named Giunta.

She earned her keep by tending to sick women. She later began caring for the sick poor, living on alms, asking nothing for her services. Became a Franciscan tertiary in 1277. Margaret developed an deep and intense prayer life, and was given to ecstacies during which she received messages from heaven.

In 1286 she received charter to work with the sick poor. She gathered others of like mind, and formed them into tertiaries. They were later given the status of a congregation, and called the Poverelle (Poor Ones). Founded a hospital at Cortona. Preached against vice to any who would listen. Developed a great devotion to the Eucharist and Passion. Prophesied the date of her own death.

Though she worked for those in need, and though the poor sought her help and advice, the calumny of her earlier life followed her the rest of her days, and she was forever the target of local gossips. Born 1247 at Loviano, Tuscany, Italy Died 22 February 1297 at Cortona Canonized 1728 by Pope Benedict XIII Patronage against temptations, falsely accused people, hoboes, homeless people, insanity, loss of parents, mental illness, mentally ill people, midwives, penitent women, people ridiculed for their piety, reformed prostitutes, sexual temptation, single laywomen, tertiaries, tramps

O Saint Margaret of Cortona, I too come today as a pilgrim and I pause to pray with you at the feet of the image of Christ Crucified and Risen, whom, as a penitent, you contemplated at length. Lord Jesus, crucified for us, in offering yourself on Calvary for all humanity, you have revealed to us the wellsprings of everlasting life. May the mystery of your Passion enlighten our life making us ready to follow you on the way of holiness and love. Rekindle our faith; teach us to recognize and welcome in our everyday life the plans of your mysterious Providence. Give us the courage to confess our sins and open our hearts to sorrow, in order to receive the gift of your mercy. Empower us to forgive our brethren following the example of your love that knows no bounds. Help us to be humbly disposed to repair the harm we have done by actively and generously serving the poor, the sick, and all who are marginalized and without hope. Give everyone the joy of persevering faithfully, in full harmony with the Church, along the way of the particular calling. Above all others, show the young the splendid plan of love that you intend to bring about for them and with them at the threshold of the new millennium. Enable us to be peacemakers, tenacious weavers of daily relationships of fraternal solidarity, artisans of reconciliation, witnesses and apostles of the civilization of love. O glorious Saint Margaret of Cortona, present this rquest to your Crucified Lord and ours. Guide us with the strength of your example, support us with your constant protection, be our companion we beg you, till we reach our Father's house. Amen.

-Pope John Paul II, 1999

-- - (David@excite.com), July 31, 2004.

David,

Just because you don't like what the Bishops say doesn't mean you have a right to say that I'm wrong. You are in fact dissenting from Church teaching.

New Guy

-- Brian (Brian@Brian.com), August 01, 2004.

There's no question, Brian. The fact is, some bishops are teaching a very unsafe definition of ''Compassion and Responsibility.'' We need better guidelines than the ones you link up there. The last post David gave us is a Catholic treasure, words to live by.

''Relationship'' today is a loaded word that amounts to permissive attitudes between ''consenting adults''. Consenting adults also is a term indicative of ultra-liberal thinking. You know it as well as me.

There is no ''relationship'' at all between two homosexuals. There is no ''marriage''. Calling illicit unions by such euphemisms is wrong. Gay lovers are only in sin, period. They are not in a relationship. Spouses form relationships known as MARITAL. These are holy under ordinary circumstances. They are marriages, for Pete's sakes. Common sense indicates this.

When we were young there was what we called a PLATONIC love. No sex. Love between chaste persons of the same gender. In those circumstances when sexual attraction was felt, it was known to be a temptation to sin. Not to form a union, or ''relationship''.

Now a couple want the temptation AND the ''relationship'' because of our irresponsible advisors. Bishops will certainly be held responsible in the Last Day for encouraging loose morality. And above you've inadvertently posted a terrible example of that dubious kind of advice. That kind can never lead to holiness and chastity. Only to added temptations, I'm afraid.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), August 02, 2004.

Eugene, there are such things as marriend couples who choose to remain celibate, though married. This has been part of Church tradition for centuries. There are saints that are married but choose celibacy. Don't give me this nonsense that gay or lesbian partners may not form healthy celibate relationships because they put themselves in temptation. They are not depraved hunam beings, eugene. They have dignity and grace just like us. Stop trying to make them look like they are void of a spiritual will.

Brian

-- Brian (Brian@Brian.com), August 02, 2004.

Eugene, there are such things as marriend couples who choose to remain celibate, though married. This has been part of Church tradition for centuries. There are saints that are married but choose celibacy. Don't give me this nonsense that gay or lesbian partners may not form healthy celibate relationships because they put themselves in temptation. They are not depraved human beings, eugene. They have dignity and grace just like us. Stop trying to make them look like they are void of a spiritual will.

Brian

-- Brian (Brian@Brian.com), August 02, 2004.

Dear Brian:,br>I'm willing to admit extraordinary couples have existed. They are just exceptions that prove the rule, IMO.

It's not ''nonsense'' that suppose more gay or lesbian partners are sure to FAIL as chaste partners than any number of the exceptions.

You're presenting the ideal as some proven norm, and it's not the case. I wasn't saying all gays are depraved or lack spiritual values. Only that such arrangements definitely present ocassions of sin more often than chaste loving unions. And, incidentally-- the Church ''tradition'' you cite is not ONLY exceptional of the norm. It's very often temporary and provisional, The practice of abstinence, not totally sexless chaste marriage. That is quite another thing from gay unions.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), August 02, 2004.

Brian,

I'm suprised at your post.

"The confessor should encourage the person to form stable relationships with persons of both sexes . . . . Two other elements which should be stressed are regular access to spiritual direction and the formation of a stable friendship with at least one person. One of the greatest difficulties for the homosexual is the formation of such a friendship

means in my reading homosexuals are to form stable *friendships* with both sexes, not have the equivalent of a chaste marriage with both. Please clarify where exactly in this you see the church saying that homosexuals should be involved in chaste relationships in some way equivalent to marriage. The church defines homosexuality as intrinsically disordered, IMO she would not then say one should partially act on their homosexual tendency any more than she would say to consider having an abortion even if you on some level know that when the time comes you won't follow through with it.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), August 02, 2004.

------

-- -------------- (-----@----.com), August 02, 2004.

Brian Crane,

I saw the posts from the other Brian and thought they were from you (until now I think you're the only Brian I've seen here), and thought, "man, I thought that guy had his head screwed on better than that". Well, it wasn't you, so sorry for maligning you.

Frank

-- Someone (ChimingIn@twocents.cam), August 02, 2004.

Frank,

Thanks, Jalapeno was correct. She thought everyone would think the other Brian was me, that I should set everyone straight. I haven't posted much lately, so I didn't think my name would even register with people. Anyway, I don't agree with some of the other Brian's thoughts here, so I figured I'd chime in with my two cents--wait that's your line :-). Your comments are appreciated.

-- Brian Crane (brian.crane@cranemills.com), August 03, 2004.

"The confessor should encourage the person to form stable relationships with persons of both sexes . . . . If a homosexual has progressed under the direction of a confessor, but in the effort to develop a stable relationship with a given person has occasionally fallen into a sin of impurity, he should be absolved and instructed to take measures to avoid the elements which lead to sin without breaking off a friendship which has helped him grow as a person. This kind of ambiguous language drives me crazy. What does "stable" relationships with persons of one's own sex mean? Apparently these stable relationships could lead to sexual activity (at which point they are unstable?). But at that point they shouldn't end the relationship because, although it has led to mortally sinful behavior, it has also helped them to "grow" as a person. The homosexual is supposed to maintain the friendship but merely avoid the elements which led to sin, as if they can be separated. Brian seems to think, therefore, that this is an invitation for homosexuals to live together chastely (or make an attempt at it), and indeed it seems to be. Arrgggggh. Do the US Bishops have the same view about two young engaged heteros shacking up? Maybe so, I don't know.

Eugene, there are such things as married couples who choose to remain celibate, though married. This has been part of Church tradition for centuries. There are saints that are married but choose celibacy. Don't give me this nonsense that gay or lesbian partners may not form healthy celibate relationships because they put themselves in temptation If homosexual couples, living chastely, decide one night to break this discipline of chastity, they commit mortal sin.

If married couples, living chastely, decide one night to break this discipline of chastity, they are not sinning.

-- Brian Crane (brian.crane@cranemills.com), August 03, 2004.

You know what guys ? We're going to drive away someone here who is going through a difficult period in her life. If you wanna debate the church's teaching on homosexual relationships, please take it to another thread. We ought to comfort isabelle and offer words of encouragement.

Think about it. What if you came to a message board opening your life out to people and seeking help, and then everyone starts going off on a tangent with debates. It's really sad.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), August 03, 2004.

Dear Oliver:
You have offered isabelle comfort and God's grace. So did I; you must have noticed.

But up came some dubious topics, intended as good cheer for the afflicted, but in fact seriously flawed.

She is better off finding out what is good and what is sure to cause her greater confusion and sorrow. This is something that shouldn't be downplayed or postponed. We are her friends.

Isabelle made note of an inability to make friends. But there are YOU, and some others like myself. God sent her to us, I believe. We must offer her only God's answers. Not advice to the lovelorn. Not meaning to be sarcastic in the least. We have what isabelle needs right now. Do not spare her the moment of self-examination.

-- eugene c. chavez (loschavez@pacbell.net), August 03, 2004.

Eugene, Thankyou for your post. I appreciate it. Yes you've contributed very positively to the thread, and I want to thank you for it.

Isabelle, we're your friends here and we warmly welcome you. The Lord has blessed us with charitable hearted people here. May you receive a rich supply from the contributors here. The Lord does not only speak to people directly, but also through the members of his body.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), August 03, 2004.

"You know what guys ? We're going to drive away someone here who is going through a difficult period in her life. If you wanna debate the church's teaching on homosexual relationships, please take it to another thread. We ought to comfort isabelle and offer words of encouragement"

Olly, Rember this is a Catholic forum and if someone says the Church teaches something it does not than they will be corrected. Now Brian will learn from this thread and isabelle will see that Brian gave her the wrong advice.

The truth on Catholicism must be taught not some watered down liberal version.

-- - (David@excite.com), August 04, 2004.

Yes David, I agree that you guys have every right to defend the Catholic church's teaching and correct those who misrepresent the Catholic church. I just hope we will also keep in mind the original posting of the thread, which says to me that someone needs a lot of our love and prayers.

Not that I would suggest she has been deprived of such, just that perhaps one can easily forget those who seek our help if attention is shifted elsewhere to a large extent.

Anyway, I would like to commend the people here for their postings of late. I think the atmosphere in the message board is more positive and the messages themselves are more substantial and enjoyable to read, so thanks all.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), August 04, 2004.

"You know what guys ? We're going to drive away someone here who is going through a difficult period in her life. If you wanna debate the church's teaching on homosexual relationships, please take it to another thread. We ought to comfort isabelle and offer words of encouragement. Think about it. What if you came to a message board opening your life out to people and seeking help, and then everyone starts going off on a tangent with debates. It's really sad. "

Its not sad in my opinion Olly. This is a Catholic forum fist& foremost and when somone gives wrong advice on Catholic teaching they should be told so and in the process isabelle will see what the Church realy teaches on this.

Maybe you should start looking more into posts Olly and then you will become a Catholic one day.8-)

I read everyone being very kind to isabelle.

-- - (David@excite.com), August 04, 2004.

Olly

I think you make a very good point. We have a person in pain. I think we should address this first. Catholic teaching will follow naturally---I have no doubt about this.

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), August 04, 2004.

Isabelle, how are you doing these days ? We haven't heard from you for a while. I hope you're doing better since the last time you posted.

-- Oliver Fischer (spicenut@excite.com), August 10, 2004.