"Make me a Mum" , a new form of TV entertainment ??

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2004/07/23/nsperm23.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/07/23/ixhome.html

"Make me a mum" , will this be a new level to entertain people , playing with lifes ?? __ This is really immoral trash-TV , even I'm not religious , these kind of things , are against my morals & conscience !!

What if a kid will be born , how this child will be educated , what about the fatherhood ?? __ What if that kid is asking for his father , or how/where he/she is born ?? __ Do they know/understand the consequences of this all ??

What will be next ????

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), August 03, 2004

Answers

well Laurent, thi is why we have religion in the first place, to scave off such terrible ideas that damage people...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 03, 2004.

In my opinion, these types of programs are a symptom of our lack of respect for God in our society.

-- James (stinkcat_14@hotmail.com), August 03, 2004.

Zarove or anyone else , just a question , what got/have religion & morals to do with eachother ,'cause , as you know , I really don't believe in (a) religion or religious happenings , but even I do have a conscience and a moral , such Trash-TV is also not my way !!

There are people who think about people who don't believe , that they are wild animals who screw the morals , but that's not true , I listen to my conscience , and it says it's wrong to handle that way !! __ OK , my parents also told me it is wrong to play lifes , but if I listen to myself inside , suppose if I would do an one-night-stand , or join such shows/programs , oh boy , (later on) I would regret that for life !! My body belongs to me and not the world !!

What I'd like to know , what drive people to create or/and join such programs ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), August 03, 2004.


Laurent

the short answer is because they think like you, namely, that morality is a matter of personal taste; and, for that reason, you are on a very sticky wicket as you and they are in effect adopting the same attitude.

that does not mean, btw, that Christians, that have the benefit of an objective moral code, always do the right thing. heavens no.

furthermore, there's a lot more "there but for the Grace of God go I" in this world than we recognise. are you sure that you would not be strapping a bomb to your chest and blowing up Israelis, had you been born in the Palestine?

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), August 03, 2004.


In my opinion, this just demonstrates the depraved nature of man and his inability to seek God.

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 03, 2004.


Zarove or anyone else , just a question , what got/have religion & morals to do with eachother ,'cause , as you know , I really don't believe in (a) religion or religious happenings , but even I do have a conscience and a moral , such Trash-TV is also not my way !!

{But te Morals you hold coem largley form your rleigious background. In europe, most of the peopel are not only not practicing, but most have never been to Chruch at all.You LEFT th Church , but still know its teachigns which still ply a part in your mind. Likewise, the chruch teaches te conequences of sin, which you have seen, and still have enough sence to be revlted by syuc things.

Religion teaches morals, and htouh you needent be religious to be Moral, just liek you needent have gone to collage to have learned quantum mechanics, you still rely on thr works of those who DID go to collage, or CVhruch, as the basis of understandign the effects this has on us.}-Zarove

There are people who think about people who don't believe , that they are wild animals who screw the morals , but that's not true , I listen to my conscience , and it says it's wrong to handle that way !! __

{Nonetheless, they react to the lusts of heir flesh, whereas you swe the ramificatiosn of such things. You LEARNED that sin has an effect. Remember, one needent be religious to have morals, but relgion teaches morals. Thats the point I made...without rleigion fewer pepel are taught any kind of morality and subsequently lead immoral livs that generall invovle a lot fo confusion, fear, and pain...}-Zarove

OK , my parents also told me it is wrong to play lifes , but if I listen to myself inside , suppose if I would do an one-night-stand , or join such shows/programs , oh boy , (later on) I would regret that for life !! My body belongs to me and not the world !!

{Good, you see the effects and potential harm of this sor of behaviour and wont engage in it. This still doesnt negate that rleigion likewise teaches those mroals and the ramifications of suchactions, and if religion whwre more tolerated in europe we woidl have less of this sort of depravity.}-Zarove

What I'd like to know , what drive people to create or/and join such programs ??

{Lust, desire for fame, wantign to flaunt themselves in order to feel bigger than they are, ovecompensation...lots of reasons...all bad...}- Zarove

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 03, 2004.


But te Morals you hold coem largley form your rleigious background

Sorry ; I disagree on that !!

You LEARNED that sin has an effect.

Can you explain this to me ??

and if religion whwre more tolerated in europe we woidl have less of this sort of depravity

You can't prove it , 'cause , what if there was no religion on our world ??

'cause You wrote: you see the effects and potential harm of this sor of behaviour and wont engage in it. This still doesnt negate that rleigion likewise teaches those mroals and the ramifications of suchactions

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), August 06, 2004.


Laurent, religion largley teaches morals, this is where Morals came form. Any set of orginised prncples can be classed as a loose religion or social contraxct. rleigion unified peopel and gave them common goals and guidelines to help them live a decent life.

I dot need to prove it as its self evident.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 06, 2004.


Hi Laurent

You wrote: "What I'd like to know , what drive people to create or/and join such programs ?? "

I would imagine that such people lack hope in their lives. They have resorted to a faith in humanism, which allows them to do as they please without regards to the consequences. Afterall, for them the consequences mean nothing. It is a hopeless world where things are just gonna happen and there is no way around such behaviors. For them life is cheap because it leads to nowhere: they have no hope. Misery and suffering are just part of the overall picture, which cannot be changed (for them). Immediate pleasure is a false impression, for them. The flesh is all that matters and pleasing the flesh is the satification that matters, until the next episode. They live in the "now" and the only one who matters is themselves. Others are only a stepping stone to their own pleasure. They do not understand the concept of compassion for all people. "Brotherly love" has an entirely different meaning. Look at their behaviours for evidence of what I say. Their moral code is based upon the means justifying the ends.

But, I wonder more about the morals that you have embraced, Laurent. Those morals are not arbitrary. Your morals were also learned. You know the difference from right and wrong. And, you choose to do one or the other. Generally, i suspect that you try to do what is right. There is a true right or correct path. Humanism is so temporary and ultimately hopeless. We do have a higher code by which to live by. And, that higher code keeps us from going on t.v. and making a mockery of procreation. It keeps us from creating babies as a joke for selling products on t.v.

What is your higher code, Laurent?

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 06, 2004.


"satification"??

I don't think there is such a word, but there should be. Let's try

satisfaction.

I had to remember the Rolling Stones; they taught me english. :)

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 06, 2004.



David wrote: "In my opinion, this just demonstrates the depraved nature of man and his inability to seek God. "

Hmm. I wonder about those atheists with high moral standards who demonstrate excellent deeds and behaviours for the betterment of all men. They must be depraved, huh? What about those people who believe in God, but reject Christ? Depraved? What about all those who deviate from orthodoxy? Also depraved?

Depravity is a choice a person makes for themselves. Ask Adam and Eve.

...................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 06, 2004.


We do have a higher code by which to live by

For me , I watch every person , case by case , so it means , there are persons I really despise or really like/love !!

What is your higher code, Laurent?

I watch on TV what I like and live the way I want and that makes me feeling OK !! __ I simply don't have a higher code !! __ It doesn't matter if your a junky , doctor , priest , nun , king , minister , butcher or whatever , we're all humans , we're all will die !!

They live in the "now" and the only one who matters is themselves

I take life as it comes , maybe tomorrow I could die , so be it , in that case , maybe bad luck for me !!

-----------------------------------------------------------------

"satification"??

It does exist , I did found it via the internet ;)

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), August 06, 2004.


But, Laurent. We do have a higher moral code when we choose not to do certain things that we consider to be wrong. We stand above a beast-like behavior and are driven by a moral code that comes from somewhere beyond our own feelings. Some may not experience that feeling, but you do and I do and most posters here do too. Are high moral standards based on cognitive development in a person, I don't think so. Moral Standards are found in all walks of life; they are found in the feeble minded as well as the intellectuals. Lack of morals can also be found in the same groups--Hilter.

Is it simply the draw of the dice that some are good while others are bad? If that is the case, then we are all inanimate as puppets on a string. We are merely victims of stimuli and response. I cannot believe such a thing, not if I believe in God. We are to live as Christ taught. We must be Christ-like. We must live always thriving for higher morals and perfect. Of course, we will never reach perfection as long as we are the fleshy beings that we are. But, imagine if everyone chose to aspire to such a perfection.

.

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 06, 2004.


We must live always thriving for higher morals and perfect.

I guess thriving would work, too. I meant striving, instead. I wish I were perfect. Well, maybe just a litte.

.......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 06, 2004.


Uh......"perfection". Maybe Freud was right?

.................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 06, 2004.



Rod , nobody is perfect , except 4 me :)

Higher code , is not the way I see it , but another code , 'cause , the ones who're looking other TV-programs (or even the ones who're looking the same µrograms) , they maybe do have another view / code on all the things ??

Also , what is/means good or/and what is/means bad ??

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), August 06, 2004.


Bad morals are those that, when executed, sacrifice the weaker or make others expendable. The future baby in that t.v. show is an example of what I mean by bad morals. The baby is just a slight inconvenience for those producers, directors, participants, and sponsors. Bad morals lack compassion for the other guy. Bad morals include taking that last drink of water for oneself instead of giving it to the other guy.

........................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 06, 2004.


The future baby in that t.v. show is an example of what I mean by bad morals

The baby would be the victim of such a commercial show !! __ Yes , those producers only think about their stupid €€€€€€€€ !! __ In fact , this way , it seems those mothers will be a babyfactory , for what reason ?? __ Looking for the perfect baby with the perfect man ?? __ It does remind me for the search of "an arian race" or "the üebermensch" , even it's not ment to be this way , it still makes me sick !! __ In the case of the producers , all that matters to them is , to let grow their bank-account , and the rest is not important !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), August 07, 2004.


Ja! "üebermensch" das ist interesant aber dumb!

......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


"Ja! "üebermensch" das ist interesant aber dumb!" - roddy

I'll take a whack at it.... does it say "Yes! That person is interesting but dumb!" ????

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2004.


Yes, it's amazing what kind of stuff they teach us in college. Music degrees require some fumbling around with different languages.

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


Wie geht es Ihnen, rod?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2004.

"üebermensch" is more like a superman. Let's think Richard Strauss and the myths of Valkyrie.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


Was ist Ihnen?

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


No, I'm not Ihnen, just like you are not David. You are an imposter. Perhaps you are Ihnen.

........................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


I'm to tired to spell check in german..

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2004.

Ja, du ist Ihnen, einen vorbildlichen ******service.

Vat du ju er mie??

......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


David, if it is really you, tell me what Weslaco is expecting from Catlifornia.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


Hell I don't know, I don't read the news. I do know a valley marine died though. What threw you off? the german?

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2004.

Do you know "Ihnen"?

Yes, Calderon's body is being brought to Weslaco.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


wie geht es Ihnen is "How are you?" in german..

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2004.

I found a different entry for "Ihnen", but we won't go there.

And, so much for my week away from the forum. It is impossible to resist the replies.

......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


Yes I know, Kevin started his anti-calvinist cruisade now :D

-- David Ortiz (cyberpunk1986@hotmail.com), August 07, 2004.

Some posts "machs mie viel schmerzen", but as long as I keep my views intact I'm ok. The debates will never cease, I guess.

.................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), August 07, 2004.


Its not the fault of Calvinists that their evil, they where just predestined to be that way...( Sorry bad Calvinist Joke.)

-- ZAROFF (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), August 07, 2004.

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