Catholic/Jew? : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread

I am considering converting to Judaism. I have embarked on a period of study with a rabbi, but I am still a Christian. As a Catholic, it is easy for me to demonstrate the appearance of a strong faith in Christianity by focusing on prescribed liturgical practice and teaching accepted doctrine. The other side of the coin of Christianity is faith; faith has two dimensions: faith expressed in creeds and faith as manifest in personal beliefs. I can express the faith stated in the creeds, but that creedal faith does not express my personal faith, which is much closer to Jewish thought. I plan remain Christian until I am formally accepted into the Jewish community. May I continue to attend Mass and receive Communion in the Catholic Church but also attend Jewish services?

-- Dan Webster (, September 09, 2004


Why not be both at the same time? SomeJews hold Jesus as the Messiah, you know.

Why not merley retain Faith in Jesus and worship at a Messanic Synagouge?

Do you beleiv ein the Christ, as the Messiah, and risen Lord? If so, rather than just becomign Jewish, why not become Messanic Jewish?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 09, 2004.

but that creedal faith does not express my personal faith

no offense intended, but what in the world does your "personal faith" have to do with jack dandy in the world? Christianity isnt about affirming your personal faith, its about breaking your will for the will of God, which is perfect above our own simple conceptions of faith.

MOREOVER, you arent looking at switching simple beliefs, you are looking at switching entire religions. namely, you are joining a religion that denies the divinity of Christ...

-- paul h (, September 09, 2004.

How can you "remain Christian" until you are "accepted into the Jewish community"? If you deny that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, sent as the means of salvation for all men, then you are not Christian now. On the other hand, if you do believe that, you will not be Jewish even after you are "accepted into the Jewish community". It's your beliefs that define what religion you belong to, not simply putting your name on a membership list.

-- Paul M. (, September 09, 2004.

There are Jews who are Catholic. Check this out: Association of Hebrew Catholics.

-- Emily (", September 09, 2004.

"Jewish" can refer either to ethnic origin or to religious affiliation. In most cases the two are closely intertwined, but not necessarily so. It is certainly possible to be Jewish ethnically and to belong to the Catholic Church. But it is not possible to simultaneously accept the religious doctrines of both Judaism, which denies that Jesus is the Messiah, and Christianity, which acclaims Jesus as the Messiah. That is the central issue. Many other Jewish beliefs are of course in full accord with Catholic beliefs. The Jewish Scriptures are part of the Catholic Bible after all.

-- Paul M. (, September 09, 2004.

yea, daniel, that is weird. you are converting, but will remain christian until then? that would be impossible, because by your WANTING to convert, youd already have to deny the divinity of jesus.

i am probably echoing what paul's written, and i agree with his comments.

dan, i think you should think about what youre doing. are you honest with yourself? or is there something superficial that attracts you to judaism?

-- jas (, September 10, 2004.

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses to my question. Many of you have helped me to see some of the errors in my thinking, and some of you have given me new ideas to consider, as have my Jewish friends.

One of you asked if there was something superficial that has attracted me to Judaism Many decision to explore Judaism has come after much thought, study, and prayer. There were superficial elements that attracted me to Catholicism—the music and the liturgy, which is why I’ve attended larger churches. I made sense of Catholic theology only by distorting it. I can’t continue to do that, because there are too many people (like you) who honestly hold to true Catholic teachings that you express so well.

Life brings many choices, and God doesn’t give most of us prophetic insight. We must trust that God, regardless of our perspective, will guide us toward the truth; truth begins by being honest. The time to chose is now. I’m a choosing to leave the Church (at least for a time), I may return as a recommitted Catholic or become an honest Jew, but in the end, my choice will be one sincerely made.

God bless,


-- Dan Webster (, September 10, 2004.

"Life brings many choices, and God doesn’t give most of us prophetic insight. We must trust that God, regardless of our perspective, will guide us toward the truth"

A: God guides us toward the truth when we make use of the sources of truth He has provided. God told His Church "whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven"; "he who hears you hears Me"; "he who rejects you rejects Me"; "the Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth". God's recorded Word tells us that His Church is "the pillar and foundation of truth". How then can you reject God's own Word and His own Church, and yet claim to be seeking the truth in honesty? It's a direct contradiction. Rather, it sounds as though you are seeking in confusion, and you would do well to deal with that confusion before making any major life decisions.

-- Paul M. (, September 11, 2004.


Thank you for your comments. Although I admire your devotion, I cannot agree with your comments. I have found that there are many ways to God. He gives us the freedom to choose the way that's right for us. It is obvious that you are a very devoted Catholic. May God bless you in your faith.


-- Dan Webster (, September 11, 2004.

Dan, my suggetion only was to seek out a Messanic Synagouge, ia this also an issue for you?

I know a Messanic Jew, as oen fo my closest freinds. She is sill Jewish, but She is also a Beleiver in Yeshua, also kwn as Jesus, as the Messiah.

Do you hold to Jesus then? If so, why not be a Messanic?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 11, 2004.

You are confused, and flakey. Orthodox Judiasm holds that a baby with a Jewish mother is a Jew, but if the mother is a Gentile, the baby is not Jewish, even if the father is. This is why you can be half Jewish, but cannot be "half Christian." It's a matrilineal religion. This makes Jews a race since the Judiasm is inherited through the mother's blood.

Jews for Jesus or those that are born Jewish because their mother is. But like members of any other race believe in Christ. It is also possible for there are Athiest Jews and even Muslim ones. Their Jewishness therefore has nothing to do with their religious beliefes If you convert to Judiasm it means you do not accept Jesus as the Messiah. I am a desiest, but point out the absurdity of liberals when I spot it. G-D cannot and will not be disproven, and the cause of the big bang has not been explained. So when you hear a liberal athiest rambling on about their feelings of the Lord, like their economic theories and everything else, it is only based on their emotions. The first thing a communist government does is eliminate all religion so they are the only form of salvation. This is what the left has done and is doing in a more sneaky way in this country.

Is there a temple you cannot sit in?

-- (x@y.z), September 14, 2004.

Thank you for your response and addressing this question from Jewish perspective. The Jews are a people, not a race. Jewish theology makes no distinction between those who are born of Jewish families and those who become Jews by choice. Several leading Jews, including Ruth and Moses, were converts to Judaism.

There is nothing easy about becoming Jewish. It means questioning everything I have been taught. In doing so, I have had to answer deal with questions, misunderstandings, and criticisms from Catholics. I assure you, I have not made this choice lightly or for superficial reasons. It doses not frighten me to leave the Church or disagree with its teachings. What frightens more is some of the beliefs expressed as a result of my question. “His Church is "the pillar and foundation of truth,’ or that being a member of the Church is about “breaking your will.” This kind of thinking makes the Church into more of a cult rather than a community of faith and needs, and it needs to give way to tolerance and diversity in religious thought. My choice to become Jewish is made of my own free will and conviction. I, too, have had my own questions, which is why I made my post, and I now have the answer to my question. I am a proselyte to Judaism. Therefore, I should attend Jewish worship. Many of you have also pointed out that there are Jews who believe in Christ, but most Jews do not for reasons that lie at the core of Jewish theology. I would not choose to become Jewish if I did not agree with those teachings.


-- Dan Webster (, September 15, 2004.

Let's end this thread. No most posts.



-- Dan Webster (, September 15, 2004.

You cannot be a Jew and believe Jesus to be the Messiah. Jews for Jesus are only Jews by birth, but have chosen to become Christains. If you believe Jesus to be the Christ, that makes you Christ-ian?

I suggest you subscribe to some of the teachings of Noah Webster, since you at least have a name in common, AND LOOK AT A DAMN DICTIONARY!

-- (x@y.z), September 16, 2004.

"Jews for Jesus" are Jews only by birth, and not by religion as I have explained earlier. But they are no longer Jewish, they are now Christian, for they believe in Christ. You are free to subscribe to the teachings of either religion, this is a free country. But you cannot subsribe to the beliefe that the Messiah has come, and the Messiah has not yet come, but is set to arrive. At the same time.

If you believe that Jesus was the Messiah, that makes you a Christ- ian, not a Jew!

-- (x@y.z), September 16, 2004.

I agree that converting to Judaism, is a denial of Yeshua (Jesus) as the Promised Messiah.

I DO NOT AGREE, that converting FROM Judaism automatically makes one a Christian. I am a gentile by birth, I believe that Yeshua (Jesus) is the promised Messiah of the Tanakh (OT). BUT I don't consider myself a christian at all.

I don’t want to shock anyone, but Yeshua (Jesus) was a Jew! Reared strictly in the Jewish religion, circumcised, attended the feasts, followed Torah (if the scripture in the NT, is read correctly and in context. Yeshua pointed the way to - and became the perfect, sinless, once and for all sacrifice for sin. Yeshua is Intercessor between man and the G_d of the Tanakh (OT) Jews!

I consider myself a "completed gentile." Which to me, equates to being Orthodox Jewish, keeping the feasts, kosher, Torah, Shabbat (the Saturday Sabbath)etc., But accepting Yeshua (Jesus) as G_d's promised Messiah of the Tanakh (OT).


If one is considering to Judaism, which branch are you "converting" to? There are many different sects in Judaism today, just as in the Protestant Church, with greatly varying beliefs. Are you converting to; Orthodox, Ultra-Orthodox, Reformed, Conservative, Haddasic, Rabbitical, Reconstructionist, Yeshivish Orthodox, Liberal, etc.????

It is my opinion, and that of many others, that Messiah Yeshua NEVER came to establish some new religion. In the time Messiah Yeshua (Jesus Christ) walked this earth, those who followed Him were referred to as Nazarenes, A SECT OF JUDAISM, not some new religion.

Those who followed the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus) kept the feasts, they kept Shabbat (the Saturday Sabbath, the Torah, etc. The only difference is their Jewish Sect, and other Jewish Sects such as the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essene, Samaritans, Herodians, Qumran, Zealots, and the Sect of the Nazarene.


What is Messianic Judaism? The rebirth of modern Israel has been paralleled by a revival of interest in spirituality among Jewry worldwide. Amidst this search for meaning and truth, Jewish people have once again examined the Hebrew Scriptures, the most ancient and central document in Jewish faith. Many have compared the teachings of the Torah and the Prophets with the claims of the New Testament. A great number of these people have come to embrace the belief that Jesus is the Messiah of Israel and that the New Testament is, after all, a Jewish book ... about a Jewish Messiah.

While Messianic Judaism is new in some respects, it is also ancient. It stands on a foundation going back to biblical times. In the first century CE, there were several different sects within Judaism -- Pharisees, Saduccees and Herodians to name a few. These different Jewish groups were unquestionably part of the larger Jewish community. A great number of Judeans comprised one of these groups -- the Nazarenes. These were followers of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth, and the forerunners of today's Messianic Judaism.

The rise of the current Messianic Jewish movement began simultaneously with the rise of the Zionist movement in the early 1900s. Study groups and fellowships began to sprout throughout the United States and in different parts of the world. The explosive growth that solidified the Messianic movement, however, took place in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Today there are over 200 Messianic Synagogues in the United States and approximately 50 in Israel. The movement's rapid growth continues, with new congregations being started in the former Soviet Union, Latin America, and in key cities around the world.

Messianic Jewish followers of Jesus tenderly use His Hebrew name -- Yeshua (which means "salvation") -- and are committed to preserving their Jewish identity, believing it to be perfectly compatible with their newfound faith. They celebrate the Jewish feasts, meet on the Sabbath, teach from the Torah, celebrate Bar Mitzvahs and engage in other Jewish customs. Messianic synagogues are formed by Jewish and Gentile members who worship together and who recognize the Messiahship of Yeshua and the Jewish foundation of His message.


-- B. Gales (, February 26, 2005.

If I could only have one book to study, outside of the Holy Bible, THIS would be the book - it is priceless - "IF" you are a true Berean (The NT says the Bereans studied to make sure all they were taught was true to written scripture, which at that time was the OT, as the NT had not yet been written), and are seeking to truly know and understand God, this IS the book.


This book is for Jews and Gentiles who aren't afraid to take a hard look at the roots of the religious doctrines that separate Judaism from Christianity and judge them against the words of the Holy Bible. This book is an invaluable tool for anyone desiring to seek out the Jewish roots of Messiah. 266 pages.

(This book has no personal connection to me, nor am I selling it - I am just recommending this books, because on this subject, it is the best I have ever read - excellent writing and powerful documentation.)

To my knowledge there is only ONE place to purchase this book. Click on URL below and or copy and paste.

Please visit our Messianic site at:

Shabbat Shalom! 02/26/2005

Von (Completed Gentile)

-- B. Gales (, February 26, 2005.

Mr. Gales;

Have you heard of the New Covenant? Have you heard of Mount Calvary?

And, Come now-- ''-- you don’t want to shock anyone, but Yeshua (Jesus) was a Jew! Reared strictly in the Jewish religion, circumcised, attended the feasts, followed Torah (if the scripture in the NT, is read correctly and in context.'' ----Are you crazy? Did someone tell you Jesus was considered a Swede; an Irishman; by faithful Catholics ? ? ? He is Yeshua to you; OK. To me, this is Jesu as the Romans called him. Same Annointed One of God (Messiach, Christ). Same Paschal Lamb of God. Same Son of God and the Holy Virgin Mary, descendent of David the King. We're not ashamed to say He is a Jew, and Mary is a Jew.

But we know He is our Passover Lamb. His holy blood seals the New Covenant between Christians and our Almighty Father; and fulfills all the prophesies of the Old Covenant for all time.

There's nothing that Christ left of the Old Covenant to fulfill, after sending his Church the Holy Spirit. It's finished. You yourself are no longer expected to offer animal sacrifice, as the prophets once prescribed.

Malachias says in the OT: ''I have no pleasure in you, saith the Lord of hosts, I will not receive a gift of your hand. For from the rising of the sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles, saith the Lord of hosts. And in every place there is sacrifice and there is offered to my name a clean oblation (Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist) --Malachi 1, :10-11 and ending in, ''For I am a great King, saith the Lord of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the Gentiles.'' V. 14--

We are the people of the New Covenant. And we ask all Jews of good will to come to the Catholic Church if they truly love Yeshuah.

-- eugene c. chavez (, February 26, 2005.

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