Incomplete sexual act during pregnancy

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I read a previous question similar to mine and understood the answer somewhat, but my husband wants a clear answer. Is oral sex or mutual masturbation a sin when the women is already pregnant? Must every sexual act, when pregnant, end in complete sexual intercourse (i.e. sperm in vagina...hope that doesn't sound crude)? If so, why? Thank you in advance!

-- Elizabeth Flesher (babys_mama1@yahoo.com), September 12, 2004

Answers

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-- (bump@bump.bump), September 12, 2004.

Vaginal sex during the first two trimesters of pregnancy is safe according to doctors. It is also no more morally reprehensible to have sex during pregnancy as it is to have vaginal sex in the period of the menstrual cycle when a woman's egg has dropped and for a short while she is not able to concieve. The same as when a woman has gone through menopause and she is no longer able to concieve, sex within marriage is not morally reprehensible.

The NCCB put out a statement years ago stating that when a married man and woman have had sex, and the man climaxes before the woman, it is not morally reprehensible for the woman to manually stimulate herself in order to achieve climax. Also, they said that as foreplay, manual stimulation and oral stimulation are permissable only if it leads to vaginal sex and is not the main mode of achieving orgasm.

-- brian (brian@brian.com), September 12, 2004.


"The NCCB put out a statement years ago stating that when a married man and woman have had sex, and the man climaxes before the woman, it is not morally reprehensible for the woman to manually stimulate herself in order to achieve climax."

Surely that is in contradiction to the Church's teaching on the essentially unitive and self-giving nature of sexual activity. Stimulation of the woman by her husband, yes, but not by herself.

-- Steve (55555@aol.com), September 12, 2004.


"The NCCB put out a statement years ago stating that when a married man and woman have had sex, and the man climaxes before the woman, it is not morally reprehensible for the woman to manually stimulate herself in order to achieve climax."

It's one thing to say the NCCB "put out a statemet" such as the above, but it's another thing to prove it. Brian, can you reference your support for such a claim. I find it very difficult to believe the NCCB ever made such a statement.

-- Curious (curious@none.com), September 13, 2004.


Elizabeth, this topic has been discussed before in this forum. In another thread the Executive Director of the Couple to Couple League was quoted as stating the following, which in my own view, is in keeping with Church teaching:

"Pope Pius XII, in his address to Italian Midwives, emphasizes that the pleasure associated with the marriage act is good and intended by God to be fully enjoyed as long as it is part of the marriage act itself. Not only that, but in charity spouses should be more concerned with giving each other pleasure than with experiencing pleasure. It is entirely appropriate, therefore, for a husband to seek assistance from his wife regarding how to help her fully enjoy the pleasure of their marital embrace. What is not permitted is to arouse oneself outside of the marriage act. The Church has no specific teaching about doing things to arouse oneself while engaged in the marriage act, as long as our purpose is to enjoy the lawful pleasure connected with the marriage act. Take a look at our website: www.ccli.org where Marilyn Shannon has an article on nutrition and female desire. God bless, Bill Sockey Executive Director"

You can read the entire thread here at: http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0079j8

So Elizabeth in answer to your question, oral sex or mutual masturbation is not a sin when the woman is already pregnant as the "pro-creative" aspect of sacrament has been fulfilled. It is however in my opinion, a sin for a partner to masturbate by him/herself without the assistance of the parter, as this is not considered to be "within the marrital embrace" and therefore outside of the marriage act.

-- Curious (curious@none.com), September 13, 2004.



So is it or isn't it a sin for a man to manually stimulate his wife during the marital act if he climaxes first?

I've taken a look at Pius XII letter and it looks like it says its ok.

EB

-- EB (eb12@hotmail.com), September 13, 2004.


EB, in your scenario is the woman pregnant? I believe it matters whether she is or not.

In my opinion, when the female is not pregnant and the male has climaxed (whether accidentally or not), it is not a sin for the male to stimulate the female, provided it is not outside of the marriage act, ie. the "pro-creative" aspect of the marriage act has been carried out or at least honestly attempted; in other words, intercourse has taken place or there was a sincere and honest attempt at it. Spouses are never permitted to stimulate each other for the sole purpose of enjoyment only. Their lovemaking must include all aspects of the marriage act, including the pro-creative one. Spouses must be honest with themselves and with God, about their specific intentions in these instances.

If the female is pregnant, mutual stimulation, including mutual masturbation, is not a sin as the "pro-creative" aspect of sacrament has already been fulfilled.

Masturbation by oneself is never permitted in, or outside of, the marriage act.

-- Curious (curious@noemail.com), September 14, 2004.


Curious,

Thanks. I agree. But may I ask, other than in Pius XII's letter to Italian midwives, is there another source where I can find this being taught by the magesterium?

-- EB (eb12@hotmail.com), September 14, 2004.


EB, the short answer to your question is no, but, as in all teachings of the Church, it is our responsibility to seek out Truth and to understand what God wants for us. It isn’t always clearly written down in black and white for us to follow. Your question primarily deals more with mechanics than with doctrine. To my knowledge there isn't very much put out by the Church that deals with the specifics or the mechanics of this problem. However, much of this information can be deduced through the reading of other Catholic material like the Catechism and Church documents & encyclicals such as Humanae Vitae (http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/family/documen ts/rc_pc_family_doc_08121995_human-sexuality_en.html) and Persona Humana (http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_df75se.htm) . It all boils down to knowing the faith and applying good Catholic common sense.

Have you read Pope John Paul's Theology of the Body? You can find it here: http://www.theologyofthebody.net/ In addition, there are many other great internet sites that discuss Pope John Paul’s work. It has been extensively examined and discussed. It may give you insight in dealing with your question.

Have you read The Truth and Meaning of Human Sexuality put out by the Pontifical Council for the Family? (http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_cf9601.htm) You may also want to ask this very same question to solid Catholic organisations that deal with such matters as the Catholic to Catholic League which can be found here:

http://www.ccli.org/ You can email them at: ccli@ccli.org

This organisation deals primarily with the Natural Family Program and as such, is familiar with these sorts of questions and issues that are common in today’s marriages.

Another avenue you could explore would be to seek out a priest who is experienced and educated in these matters. He can help immeasurably in answering many questions that you may have.

I hope this all helps.

-- Curious (curious@noemail.com), September 15, 2004.


EB, I “misspoke” when I suggested you contact the “Catholic to Catholic League”. The actual name for this fine organisation is the “Couple to Couple League”. Sorry for the confusion.

-- Curious (curious@noemail.com), September 15, 2004.


EB, in case you’ve missed it I will re-post a comment made by someone (who teaches Natural Family Planning) in the “Masturbation Within Marriage” thread that you should also find helpful. For what it’s worth, I completely agree with the following:

THIS IS FROM CATHOLIC PARENTS ONLINE:I USE THIS LIST WHEN I HAE A CONCERN. IT IS A DETAILED LIST OF ALLOWABLE BEHAVIOR.AND NOT ALLOWABLE: You shall not commit adultery. - - Fornication (intercourse prior to marriage) - Masturbation or other impure acts with self - Homosexual acts - Using a contraceptive - Dressing or acting in a manner intended to cause arousal in another (spouses excepted) - Kissing or touching another passionately for the purpose of arousal (spouses excepted) - Allowing another to kiss or touch you in a sexual manner (spouses excepted) - Intentionally causing a sexual climax outside of intercourse - Onanism, i.e. intentional withdrawal and non-vaginal ejaculation - Flagrant immodesty in dress - Bestiality (sexual acts with animals) - Oral sex (permitted as foreplay in marriage) - Anal sex or other degrading sex practices - Prostitution - Rape - In-vitro fertilization or artificial insemination - Surrogate motherhood - ““Selective reduction”” of babies in the womb - Types of fertility testing that involve immoral acts - Involvement in or support of human cloning - Willful divorce or desertion - Incest - Polygamy or polyandry (many wives/husbands) - Cohabitation prior to marriage - Destroying the innocence of another by seducing or introducing them to immorality - Lust in the heart (““if I could I would””) - “Swinging” or wife swapping - Transvestitism or cross dressing.

If you follow the guidelines above, I don’t think many Catholic theologians will be able to find much fault with you.

-- Curious (curious@noemail.com), September 15, 2004.


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