OK... Lets discuss this...

Gene robinson of New Hampshie is an openly gay man who dovirced his wife whom he had children by and is now living with his same sex lover. He was also concecrated a Bishop of the Anglican Communion.

Rather than go into details, which I should on occasion, I leave this open to discuss.

Shoudl he be allowed ot be a Bishop? Is he an abomnation? Or is he OK.

Lets discuss.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 30, 2004

Answers

I am reluctant to say " Bump" here... given the subjet matter...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), September 30, 2004.

"Gene robinson of New Hampshie is an openly gay man who dovirced his wife whom he had children by and is now living with his same sex lover. He was also concecrated a Bishop of the Anglican Communion. "

Here are some key facts to consider:

1. We all sin.
2. We can be forgiven.
3. Homosexual activity/behavior is sinful.
4. Divorce is forbidden, but is allowed unders specific conditions.
5. Divorcing a spouse and living with another is adultery.
6. Deliberately committing sins, openly, while being called a "Bishop" sound like a grave issue.
7. Actions speak louder than words. The Bishop is condoning homosexual behavior.

"[Should] he be allowed [to] be a Bishop?"

No.

"Is he an abomnation?"

He is a sinner. We are all sinners.

" Or is he OK. "

We are not OK when we deliberately sin, so why should he be OK? No, what he is doing is not OK.

At least, his wife is free from his sins and may remarry one day. I hope.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), September 30, 2004.

Just My opinion:

He cheated on his wife , left her , and started to live with his boyfriend !! __ But if you're gay and going to marry a wife , I call it stupid , it is no good base for a marriage & never will be , but some of them are afraid of the reaction of some people , and try to hide their "be gay" !! __ I have no problem with gay people , but lies , I've got a problem with that !!

Should he be allowed to be a Bishop ??

I'm not the person to judge about that , but if they allowed , to be honest , I don't care , that's up to the Anglican Communion !!

Salut & Cheers from a NON BELIEVER:

-- Laurent LUG (.@...), October 01, 2004.

Hi Laurent,

You do not like lies. How much truth is there in homosexuality?

............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 01, 2004.

I agree with yr first post Rod.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), October 01, 2004.

I think there are honest as well as dishonest homosexuals---As with all human kind. I don't think anyone has a lock on honesty.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), October 01, 2004.

I am referring to homosexuality--the act of and lifestyle that is strictly homosexual. Is murder an example of truth? A murderer can be honest, but the action is not anything having to do with truth. Is adultery and its lifestyle having anything to do with truth? The adulterer may claim love, but it isn't.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 01, 2004.

Hi Rod,

I guess I'm pulling this thread off topic. I tend to hold a comparably "liberal" attitude toward homosexuals. I know some, and have a close relative that is.

I guess I'm not sure where the issue of honesty becomes pertinant to the discussion of homosexuality, which is in it self a fact. Perhaps not a natural union in the way of man and woman, but its "going on" no matter how anyone feels about it, and it won't simply disappear. I don't think there is a cure, and if there was I bet many would take it so as not to be viewed as abominations by some of us.

If we are looking at the lifstyle as being "dishonest" because it is not part of the natural disposition of men and women then I sort of see the relationship. Still there is probably a better word.

I do believe a homosexual couple can truely have an "honest" loving relationship with each other, and I simply stay out of it; I can't change them.

In fact I wish them well. Life has the possibility of being frightenlingly lonely.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), October 01, 2004.

Frighteningly. frighteningly, frighteningly.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), October 01, 2004.

Let us see what scripture says of the ofifce of Bishop.

1 Timothy 3

1. This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. 2. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

3. Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

4. One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

5. (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

6. Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

7. Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

The real qaueastion is, does Robinson fit this criterion?

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 01, 2004.

Zarove-

Remember

I'm not going there.

It may not be the right way to play it, but I never claimed to be a fair player

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), October 02, 2004.

Robinson may not, I won't cast the first stone. I'll leave the "snare of the devil" out of it. I see no place unless you put us all in his playground. I'll be the first to admit that I love a seesaw.

-- Jim Furst (furst@flash.net), October 02, 2004.

Robinson still is hardly Blameless, nor is he even repentant of the sin of Homosexuality...if the Anglicans still regard this a sin...

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 11, 2004.

Uh, some Anglicans still believe it to be a sin.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 11, 2004.

indeed, Rod, the evangelical Anglicans are pretty furious but are torn between sticking to what they believe and disunity. they have been threatening to withhold collections - and this would seriously undermine the ongoing financial health of the Anglican Church.

interestingly, the most reactionary Anglicans have been the African bishops, and they ahve very publicly and vociferously opposed homosexual ordination - but the same Church allows polygamist to retain all their wives after their baptism into Anglicanism.

its an very uneasy alliance at the moment.

there are also cultural effects at play. in the West Indies, the general population sees nothing wrong with the murder of a homosexual for being homosexual. their various faith systems can "justify" this in Scripture.

i wonder if the Africans have the same extremely homophobic society. this might explain why the chose their particular interpretation of Scripture.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), October 13, 2004.

type "homophobe" and "Africa" into Google and that last postulation might not be incorrect.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), October 13, 2004.

"in the West Indies, the general population sees nothing wrong with the murder of a homosexual for being homosexual. their various faith systems can "justify" this in Scripture."

A: ANYTHING can be justified in Scripture, self-interpreted. Which is precisely why self-interpretation is so dangerous, and why Christ gave us an authorized and authoritative interpreter of His Word, so we could not just read the Scriptures, but also receive genuine truth from them.

-- Paul M. (PaulCyp@cox.net), October 13, 2004.

Amen to that.

PS i need to refine something - it is in Jamaica that homosexuals are considered "fair game" for thuggery. i don't know about the rest of the WI's but i do know Barbadians to be very nice people.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), October 13, 2004.

To be fair, the reason the Polygamists are lloed to keep their wives is for the wives protextion. The wives ar eno logner Virgins and thus "Used goods". If the man dicvorced them, they maybe forced to enter prostitution, and will be seen as cast offs and of less value. Its for their own protection that they may be retained by the man who wedded them polygamously.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 13, 2004.

hmmmm......Polygamy--the answer to social decay and prevention of prostitution. I have a better solution--male "chop-chop-cut" or a lobotomy. Polygamy is just a greedy and lustful desire of controlling the female population. It is obviously evil and self- serving. Anyway, using a smidgen of logic here, if women are gonna fall into the prostituion service there must then be enough men around to keep the "business" working. Hmmm.....there must be enough men for women to marry? Or, is it an issue of finances? "Why pay for the milk, if they can marry the calf, cow, or she-goat?" No, their justifications are crazy.

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 14, 2004.

yes, Rod, it makes the mind boggle.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), October 14, 2004.

The problem is that they are ALREADY maried. An unmarried man, or a man with only oen wife, wh enters the Anglican chruch may not take more wives. However, what do you want? Him to divorce his polygamous wives, cast them out into the streets as used goods, and fall prey to the non-Christain culture of the surroundign areas that not onlky sees them as non-virgins and thus used goods, but rejects that coudlnt satisfy their husbands!

Yes, Polygamy is selfish, but remmeber, the man ALREADY has many wives when he entered the Church, and is obligated to care for them. It is east for an Americanm to sit their with a western Midnset and critisise, but until you take into acocunt the reality of the culture and situation, you cannot possibely think that divorcign all his wives save oen s a better option.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 14, 2004.

Out of the entire planet, we cannot find a single man to marry with any of these women? Out of the whole entire planet???!!!

These women could also join the church vocations, uh......a nun?!

Live in a sinful relationship or live in the service of God in the church--which is more honest and more virtuous?

.......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 14, 2004.

interesting.

the Church accepts married Anglican-priest-converts.

but then celibacy is a matter of discipline.

and i am sure that it would not accept Gene Robinson in his current relationship.

-- Ian (ib@vertifgo.com), October 14, 2004.