Some VERY interesting paragraphs on the Origin of Christianity : LUSENET : Catholic : One Thread


From this Semitic tribe, the religion of Christianity was to spring, although its adherents were at first fiercely persecuted by the Jewish religious leaders. The Jewish religion had one particularly unique trait - it was the first specifically racial religion.

Judaism has kept this trait to this day and which has played a major role in preserving Jewish identity through centuries of dispersion and persecution.

The uniqueness of the Jewish God was that he was a God only for the Jews - while all other gods could be worshiped by anybody, the Jewish God was an ethnocentric being - specifically designed only for Jews. Biological laws of descent were built into Judaism as divinely inspired laws of who could be a Jew - to this day the rule is that only someone born of a Jewish mother can be a Jew.

While some less strict Jewish communities have relaxed this rule to allow conversions from other faiths, the orthodox Jewish community follows this law to the letter - laid down in the Talmud, the Jewish Holy Book. This is followed to the point where citizenship of Israel in present times is based on descent and not national origin.


While this racial religion unquestionably helped to preserve the Jewish identity, it irked some Jews, who objected to the blatant chauvinism of the Jewish God, Jahweh. This group of Jews, around the year 100 BC, founded a new sect, loosely based on parts of the Talmud and introducing some of their own thoughts on religion: they established a God who could be for all people, not just Jews.

This group of Jews became known as the Essenes. Using parts of the Talmud (the most noted being the book of Isaiah, which later became part of the Christian Old Testament as well), the Essenes developed a whole series of books relating to morals and lifestyles (including a monastic tradition). They were pacifist and even claimed to have had a leader who had been killed and then rose from the dead.

However, the universality of their version of Jahweh - that he was a God for all people, not just for the Jews - remained their biggest point of difference with mainstream Judaism.

This ideological conflict with mainstream Judaism eventually brought the Essenes into open conflict with their fellow Jews, and the traditional rabbinical leaders urged the Jews to stamp out the new cult. Although it is not recorded what happened to the Essenes, the Jewish leaders were only successful in suppressing them in Judea (they were forced to hide their holy books in caves around the Dead Sea. It was these books which were discovered by chance in 1947 and which have become known as the Dead Sea Scrolls).

Above: The Book of Isaiah, as laid out in the Dead Sea Scrolls, discovered in Palestine in 1947. They are the holy books of a sub-sect of Jews called the Essenes, who lived in the first century BC. The Essenes were persecuted by other Jews, who disagreed violently with the Essene belief that the Jewish God, Yahweh, was actually a God for all people, and not just the Jews. Many of the concepts which were later to become fundamental to Christianity were contained in the Essene religion - the Essenes even had an allegorical story about a wise prophet who was killed and then rose from the dead, known to them as the "Teacher of Righteousness". This story was clearly the role model for the future figure of Jesus Christ.

The Essene tradition however lived on amongst a small group of Jews, most of whom eventually left Palestine for more receptive ears elsewhere in the Roman Empire. It is clear that the religion which became known as Christianity originated in the ideas that the Essenes first developed. Mixed with the original Indo-Aryan Zoroastrian based concept of heaven and hell (which does not feature in the Old Testament at all) and the story of a leader who was killed and rose from the dead, the Essene religion was reworked and reformulated until it finally became Christianity.


The first source of information about the person who became known as Jesus Christ are the Gospels which make up the first four books of the Christian New Testament. As these works only appeared some 80 to 120 years after Christ's supposed death, there is thus no contemporary evidence showing the existence of Jesus Christ, an important but little known fact.

The person who was deified by Christianity to become the Son of God, is most probably a composite character based on the stories and myths surrounding several of the leaders of the Essenes, particularly the one whom the Essenes claimed had been killed and had risen from the dead, and whom they called the "Teacher of Righteousness."

The first time that the name Jesus Christ appears in any Roman records (and they were generally meticulous in record keeping) is the book The Jewish Wars, by Josephus, a Romanized Jew, who was commissioned to write a history of the Jewish rebellion (this excellent work is still available today).

Josephus' work was first published in 90 AD. In the book, Josephus makes mention of a small sect of Jews who claim to follow a messiah figure called Jesus, but the mention is brief and in passing.

In any event, by the time of Christ's alleged death (supposedly 33 AD) Christianity had very few followers, especially amongst the Jews themselves, who regarded the Christian philosophy as nothing but a reworking of the Essene cult, and did their best to silence it. It is therefore clear that Christianity, as a religion, originated from Jewish mythology.


One of the most zealous of these persecutors of the Essene ideology was a Jew by the name of Saul. At some stage, according to the Christian Bible, Saul experienced a vision and was himself converted to the cult that he had been persecuting. Saul then immediately changed his name to Paul and set off on long evangelistic tours of Asia Minor, Cyprus and Greece, attracting small bands of followers and writing proselytizing pieces along the way.

Returning to preach in Jerusalem, he was violently attacked by fellow Jews and was imprisoned for two years. Following an appeal to the Roman emperor he was transferred to Rome in 60 AD. Placed under house arrest, he was eventually beheaded by the Emperor Nero, who developed a particular hatred for the new cult.

Saul (Paul) however did much to create the groundwork for Christianity. Many of his writings were later taken to have been inspired by the Christian God and were taken up into the New Testament.


Anything any of you would like to say to correct this?

-- Earl (, October 08, 2004


You mean like suggesting that you read a real history book rather than the revisionist rantings of a white racist who makes up his own version of history despite the accepted facts of the rest of the world?

Instead, let's turn this around, why should we even READ that non- sense? There're too many mistakes or lies to even begin to know where to start. Kemp's claims have been sufficiently debunked by others - that's not our responsibility.


-- non-Catholic Christian (, October 08, 2004.

I went tot he souce, and whereas their are several errors, I shall show only one...

This group of Jews became known as the Essenes. Using parts of the Talmud (the most noted being the book of Isaiah, which later became part of the Christian Old Testament as well), the Essenes developed a whole series of books relating to morals and lifestyles (including a monastic tradition). They were pacifist and even claimed to have had a leader who had been killed and then rose from the dead.

Why is this an error, you may ask? Because Isaiah is part of the Tahnak, NOT the Talmud. The Talmud is the book of ritual laws and urity, that woidl not be written down until around the 4th century AD, and existed only as Oral tradition befre this.

None of the Prophets are poart of the talmud, as it is mainly disocurses on law, tradition, and moral behaviour.

If the author of this article cannot even get this correct, and persists in any number of errors, Such as his Mistranslation of " in hoc Signas Vincies", which, accordign to him means " I this sign you will win", when inf act it is " In this sign, conquer", reveals his poor graps og the subject matter.

-- ZAROVE (ZAROFF3@JUNO.COM), October 08, 2004.


Really nothing new here.

The time in question is very vague to everyone trying to support an "historical" perspective. The Teacher of Righteousness has been placed in time useing the dead sea scrolls as existing as a rival to the high priest Aristibulus in 67 BC to Antiochus IV Epiphanes in the mid 160 BC's. I've also heard him being called Christ, and Paul the man of the lie. Paul had many enemies, but the chronology, as Zorove pointed out does not support this.

Could be anyone.

-- Jim (, October 08, 2004.

zarove-- very good and interesting point you made.

earl-- can it be proven that the scrolls are actually FROM the first century BC? would "carbon dating" be the method used to determine the age of the scrolls?

your recounting claims these scrolls pre-date Christ (and therefore Jesus and his legacy are merely a ripped-off legend). but the first century BC to 120 AD is only about 200 years. isnt there a plus/minus when attributing an age to an antiquity? could it be that the scrolls actually ARE an account of jesus' life???

you may believe they pre-date Jesus, but from a scientific point of view, can we be sure they arent just a couple of hundred years older? im not familiar with how these timelimes are pinpointed anyway.

-- jas (, October 08, 2004. one needs to trace origins or verify history to prove that ur heart is right. When we first listened to the message, we beleived not becoz it was interesting and revolutionary..we did becoz it broke our heart to touch the soul.

ok for an argume3nt sake: What is writteen was written roughly 2000 yrs ago. none of u seem to doubt that.

1.) Can there have been such an author with such far fletched vision at that time?

2.) Will what is written be so meaningfl that it cuts the soul to this day?

3.) noone disagress the written word to mean is Good and there'sno doubt about it..

4.) It is good and is far ahead of an author of those times. Is it not enough to convince ur hearts that it has every chance to be from the Good source - God Himself??

-- Cynthia (, November 01, 2004.

I would just direct "Earl" to which has, on-line, the monumental writings of the early church MEMBERS, from 1st century Christianity on up. The writings are voluminous! And all attesting to the FACT of Christ. No figure in history has ever spurred such an extraordinary amount of RECORDS! Not a-one, and not-a coincidence!

What, did the early Christian martyrs die for something or someone they knew to be a lie? Did they allow their children to be fed to lions . . . for a lie? Did they allow their wives or husbands to be set aflame as human torches to light up the streets in which they once walked . . . for a lie? Did they offer their bodies to be burned WILLINGLY . . .for a LIE? Did the disciples who were eye- witnesses to the events WILLINGLY and KNOWINGLY suffer humuliating deaths, for something they knew unequivocally to be a lie that they themselves made up?

Evidence, Earl, is what we base our faith on, not subjective wishy- washy feelings as suggested by someone above. The evidence is OVERWHELMING. You might do well to take some time and take a look!

God Bless you,


-- gail (, November 01, 2004.

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