Judas. What have you done?

Matthew 27

3 Then when (1) Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned (2) the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,(NASB)

Interesting webpage about Judas.

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004

Answers

Here is the URL:

http://members.tripod.com/~RussWorldY2K/judas.html

...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

Yikes. You'll have to stumble thru the pop-up windows in that webpage about Judas. There weren't that many before, sorry.

...........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

It is interesting to note that Judas went before his priests to return the blood money and present himself for forgiveness of his sin. The priests told him to take matters into his own hands; the priests were not about to forgive Judas. The tone of Scriptures puts Judas in his own "place". Juadas cannot find anyone on earth to forgive his sins. The only Source of forgiveness comes from Christ, of course.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

Kevin asked if a Christian would committ suicide:

Next, Judas’ suicide could be a representation of Judas’ mental state -- when the priest refuse to reconsider his crime and try him for shedding innocent blood, Judas executes the fitting sentence himself (Conard 164). He has to do it on his own because the priests are deviating from their responsibilities as priests. In other words, “Judas thus fulfills the command of scripture which the Sanhedrin refuses to observe: a false accuser must suffer the same fate as the falsely accused” (Stock 417). It is arguable that Judaism had a tolerance for suicide since Jewish tradition excuses/justifies the suicides of Saul (1 Sam 31:4-5), Samson (Judge 16:28-30), and Zimri (1 Kings 16:18). To this extent, there are no biblical condemnations or prohibitions on suicide (Davies & Allison 561-2).

(The Death of Judas: Hypocrisy & Fulfillment

Russ Kwitkowski, Dr. Sheila McGinn. Synoptic Gospels, RL 307. May 12, 2000.)

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

Now, Judas would have a difficult time being called a "Christian". But, his actions do seem consistant with his Jewish traditions up to a certain point. But, look at the others who are mentioned.

"...Jewish tradition excuses/justifies the suicides of Saul (1 Sam 31:4-5), Samson (Judge 16:28-30), and Zimri (1 Kings 16:18). To this extent, there are no biblical condemnations or prohibitions on suicide (Davies & Allison 561-2). ".

Faith made the accusation that Judas was running away from threats to his life. It doesn't appear to be anything like that, Faith. It looks like Judas was owning up to his sin and paying the price. He is putting his life to death just as he had a hand in Christ' death.

.............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

Mel Gibson's film took the perception that Judas ended his life as a means to end evil torment

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

"The Greatest Story Ever Told" portrays Judas as being remorseful and duped.

BTW, I was dissapointed with the lack of focus Mel had in his movie "The Passion of the Christ". Christ as our Saviour was skimpily conveyed for the newbie believer. Where was the theology? Where was the overwhelming message that Jesus was the Messiah and Saviour of the world? Of course, we know the message already, but the movie failed to make it most obviously clear to the audiences.

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

I dunno, after watching the movie I was reassured that Mary definitely was the mother of Jesus.

-- Luke Juarez (hubertdorm@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

"Matthew 27:3 Then when (1) Judas, who had betrayed Him, saw that He had been condemned, he felt remorse and returned (2) the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,(NASB)"

What Rod fails to quote, "4 And they said, "What is that to us? You see to it!" 5 Then he threw down the pieces of silver in the temple and departed, and went and hanged himself." (Matthew 27:4-5).

God says in 2 Corinthians 7:10, "For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted; but the sorrow of the world produces death."

Judas did not repent...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), October 22, 2004.

Yes, but I did allude to those verses. The priests did not offer forgiveness to Judas. I said that; look at my posts again. Judas was looking for forgiveness. The earthly forgiveness was not there for Judas. Do you forgive Judas? Again, Does Jesus forgive Judas? Did you read the essay in the link provided?

................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

"Yes, but I did allude to those verses. The priests did not offer forgiveness to Judas. I said that; look at my posts again. Judas was looking for forgiveness. The earthly forgiveness was not there for Judas."

Nor was the heavenly forgiveness there for Judas... "When he is judged, let him be found guilty, And let his prayer become sin." (Ps 109:7 7).

"Do you forgive Judas? Again, Does Jesus forgive Judas?"

God says that Judas was lost, so Jesus did not forgive him so it does not matter what I think.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), October 22, 2004.

"God says that Judas was lost, so Jesus did not forgive him so it does not matter what I think. "---Kevin.

Yes, it does matter what you think. The same. It did matter what Judas thought when he went back to throw the money back at the culpable priests who entangled him into betraying Christ.

But, you have said it, "... Jesus did not forgive him ...". Matthew, Mark, and Luke never come out and say what you have said. It is also strange that the accounts of Judas' death are not aligned. It is a composite of details. It is also interesting how Judas has paid his price in full, so he is no longer the focus of blame. Instead, the Sanhedrin and the Romans become the focus in Christ' crucifixion.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 22, 2004.

The problem is that Judas went to everyone but Jesus for forgiveness. This is a good lesson for us--in that we see that one cannot find forgiveness through anyone other than Jesus Christ.

Unfortunately--Judas had rejected and betrayed Jesus. I think we can see just how serious that is....

I think Judas was blinded by his own selfish greed and fear for self.

-- ("faith01@myway.com"), October 22, 2004.

"Yes, it does matter what you think."

That is your opinion Rod. To me, the case is already closed. It doesn't matter what my opinion is or what I think. The fact of the matter is that God has already judged Judas to be lost. Who am I to contradict God???

"The same. It did matter what Judas thought when he went back to throw the money back at the culpable priests who entangled him into betraying Christ."

Judas didn't really repent for if he did he would not have killed himself.

"But, you have said it, "... Jesus did not forgive him ...". Matthew, Mark, and Luke never come out and say what you have said."

If Jesus says that Judas is "lost", why does Matthew, Mark and Luke have to say the same thing???

"It is also strange that the accounts of Judas' death are not aligned."

Are all the accounts of Jesus crucifixion aligned??? The truth of the matter is that all of them say the same thing.

"It is a composite of details. It is also interesting how Judas has paid his price in full, so he is no longer the focus of blame. Instead, the Sanhedrin and the Romans become the focus in Christ' crucifixion."

Judas betrayed Christ and has been judged whether you choose to believe it or not. We aren't talking about the "Sanhedrin" or the "Romans", we are talking about Judas.

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), October 23, 2004.

Judas murdered himself...

God says in 1 John 3:15, "Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), October 23, 2004.

Faith noted that the Judas story is a "lesson" for all of us. I think that it is a very good point. A point I take as seriously as we are supposed to. The instructive ideas we get from reading about Judas lead us to the conclusions about Christ's forgiveness, and to go there to get it. The consequences otherwise can be dire.

While I get "it"---I still I am not convinced that we here on earth can be absolutely sure of Judas' ultimate fate.

Some of us believe we "already know," and others think we will "find out." Isn't this what it all boils down to?

The "lesson" we learn from this story gives us much to ponder. ---Probably why we are all still discussing it.

-- Jim (furst@flash.net), October 23, 2004.

It seems that the reason Judas killed himself was because in the Jewish tradition a person who takes an innocent life must then also be put to death. It is "an eye for an eye" kind of law. The Sanhedrin did not want to carry out the execution of Judas. They would have to admit that Jesus was innocent causing them to admit that they too were putting an innocent man to death. Judas carried out the execution of the law when the priest told him to take matters into his own hands. If Judas was running away from something, it is not evident in Scriptures that he was. If anything, Judas was trying to follow through in the consequences by executing himself. Technically, the line is fine between suicide and self-execution. The problem is still cloudy because Scriptures presents the same case that I present. While Mel Gibson relieves Judas of evil torment, I don't believe Judas followed the law for such relief. I think he did it because he knew he was wrong and accepted his consequences. He could have run away into a new life hidden away from his deeds. His execution also proves that the Sanhedrin were culpable and hypocritical, as we all know they were. I do not make God a liar. I may actually be making the Gospel writers liars or perhaps overly zealous in their handling of Judas' fate. Scriptures can also make a case for the possibility of Judas' repentance just as one can make the claim of his damnation. Look at Judas actions before his suicide/execution.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 23, 2004.

At which point did the New Covenant begin?

1. the birth of Christ.

2. the baptisms by John.

3. the baptism of Jesus.

4. the Last Supper.

5. the crucifixion of Christ.

6. the resurrection of Christ.

Was Judas baptized?

Will OSAS put Judas in Salvation or claim that he was never saved? Will Judas serve as an example for all doctrines' veracity?

Again, I am not saying that Judas was saved or damned. I cannot determine his fate based on Scriptures. This does not make me a blaspemer or heretic. Perhaps it shows my ignorance and honesty. I don't believe God to be a liar. I do believe man to be fallible and victim of his own nature. Why wouldn't this include the Gospel writers?

.......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 23, 2004.

Kevin:"Judas betrayed Christ and has been judged whether you choose to believe it or not. We aren't talking about the "Sanhedrin" or the "Romans", we are talking about Judas. "

rod: I believe that Judas betrayed Christ and I too believe that Judas has been judged by God. I question what the Gospel writers have interjected into God's judgement of Judas. We are talking about Judas and his betrayal of Christ. You must consider that Judas recieved his 30 pieces of silver from some of the Sanhedrin. Was Judas the sole betrayer or was he also an extension of the Sanhedrin plot? When the Sanhedrin refused to take back the "blood money", it pretty much nailed their indication of guilt. Judas and the Sanhedrin become inter-meshed with guilt. It is important to note that Judas is pointed to others who are at fault and guilt of Christ' crucifixion--the Romans. So, Judas is not soley one man, but a implication of extenuating circumstances and culpables. To deny my point is to maintain a narrow view of God's Scriptures for Judas was more than the sole betrayer of Christ.

It is also important to observe that the priests wanted nothing to do with Judas after his betrayal of Christ. So, who would be out to kill or harm Judas? The Christians? They had faith in their Messiah who taught them not to take matters into their own hands. The Romans? What did they care about Judas? Judas' own compatriots? If anything, they would have elevated him in rank or something. No, Judas was his own judge and executor for his final hour. God, of course, is the ultimate Judge.

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 24, 2004.

Kevin--

Read my question before you make the attempt to say that I am going off topic. Here is my initial question:

Judas. What have you done?

I am trying to show what Judas has done. Judas' story also points fingers at those who are guilty of Christ' betrayal and execution.

......................................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 24, 2004.

If you have an issue with the way I present Judas' story, then you must then also have an issue with how Scriptures present Judas inter-meshed with the Sanhedrin and the Romans. The fact that Judas is mentioned and then reported as killing himself brings an important point which focuses on those who were also involved in the conspiracy to destroy Christ. To leave out any part doesn't sound too kosher, even when we consider your faith system of "Sola Scriptura".

........................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 24, 2004.

It is also quite interesting that the Gospel writers handled the fate of the Romans and Sanhedrin differently from their accounts of Judas' fate. Why? Does prophecy speak only of Judas, or have we missed the universal message of those prophecies? I would dare say that man's myopia is rather clear.

.................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), October 24, 2004.

I look myself, as with Kevin to the Scriptures to see what abounds with Judas and I see Jesus himself saying in Matthew 26:24

"The Son of Man will go just as it is written about him. But WOE to that man who betrays the Son of Man! It would be better for him if he had never been born."

Judas was "lost" and Jesus says so himself in the inspired Word of God.

-- Mary Theresa Mallaro (Sophie1rae@aol.com), November 05, 2004.

"Judas was "lost" and Jesus says so himself in the inspired Word of God."

Exactly Mary!!!

It is amazing how people (like Rod) try to "spin" what God has plainly revealed in His word to suit their own beliefs...

God plainly states that Judas was "lost".

"While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. (Jesus is speaking of the Apostles). Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled." (John 17:12). (Emphasis mine...).

Here is the Scripture that was fulfilled by Judas betrayal of Jesus in Psalm 109:6-8: "6 Set a wicked man over him, And let an accuser stand at his right hand. 7 When he is judged, let him be found guilty, And let his prayer become sin. 8 Let his days be few, And let another take his office."

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 06, 2004.

Hi Kevin

Does Psalm 109:6-8 specifically speak of Judas or is this what you think it is speaking of? Or, is Psalm 109:6-8 speaking of anyone who falls from Grace?

I mean; let's put it through the spin cycle before we wear it in public.

..........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 06, 2004.

"Does Psalm 109:6-8 specifically speak of Judas or is this what you think it is speaking of?"

Yes, these verses "specifically" speak of Judas...

"Or, is Psalm 109:6-8 speaking of anyone who falls from Grace?"

No, this does not mention anyone who falls from grace...

"I mean; let's put it through the spin cycle before we wear it in public."

No spin here, look at Psalm 109:8... and compare it to Acts 1:20... this is most certainly speaking of Judas...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 07, 2004.

And now for the big kicker, Kevin:

"It is amazing how people (like Rod) try to "spin" what God has plainly revealed in His word to suit their own beliefs... "

What is my "own" belief in regards to Judas?

(....when in reality, I am saying that Judas' fate cannot be known by us mortals on earth. You, Kevin, are believing in your personal interpretations of Scriptures. I will not make such a judgement for Judas. That is my "own" belief, may it "spin" or not.)

........................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 07, 2004.

"(....when in reality, I am saying that Judas' fate cannot be known by us mortals on earth."

This is "not" true Rod. Go back and re-read what God has plainly revealed in His word.

"You, Kevin, are believing in your personal interpretations of Scriptures."

Wrong... I quoted "exactly" what God has said concerning Judas... No "personal interpretation" at all on my part.

"I will not make such a judgement for Judas. That is my "own" belief, may it "spin" or not.)"

It is a belief that is "not" in accordance with what God has revealed in His word.

In other words Rod, you are in fact calling God a "liar" when you say that "Judas' fate cannot be known by us mortals on earth". Judas fate has been determined and you choose not to accept what has already been revealed...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

Eek! Kevin, I could say the same about you. You make God a liar if you say you know His judgement on Judas. If Scriptures says literally --"Judas is damned to Hell and he has no chance of forgiveness"--I will accept it to mean exactly that. In the meantime, Scriptures are ambiguous. Sorry, I don't call you a liar. I only say that you believe what you do and I what I do.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

"Eek! Kevin, I could say the same about you. You make God a liar if you say you know His judgement on Judas."

You can make the same claim about me and say "You make God a liar?" however, this is not the truth?

"If Scriptures says literally --"Judas is damned to Hell and he has no chance of forgiveness"--I will accept it to mean exactly that."

This is not true Rod... I have shown you the Scriptures that prove that Judas is lost and has no chance of forgiveness and you reject what has been written...

"In the meantime, Scriptures are ambiguous."

Only in your mind are they "ambiguous" Rod. It is plain enough for anyone to see who is searching for the truth. It is obvious that you are not searching for the truth for the truth states that Judas is lost.

"Sorry, I don't call you a liar. I only say that you believe what you do and I what I do."

You can call me a liar all you want Rod, the hard part is proving what you say is true...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

I call no one a liar. WE could all be wrong and won't know it til judgement day.

Heck! If I happen to see Judas sitting next to me, I'll be sure to ask where I'm at. Or, maybe he'll ask me first. But, if you see me standing next to you, let's hope that you are smiling and standing with open arms. Surely, it will be a good place to be. Yes?

......................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

"I call no one a liar. WE could all be wrong and won't know it til judgement day."

I don't have to wait until judgment day, I believe what God has revealed in His word concerning Judas...

You on the other hand do not...

"Heck! If I happen to see Judas sitting next to me, I'll be sure to ask where I'm at. Or, maybe he'll ask me first."

If you see Judas sitting next to you, I can assure you it won't be in Heaven...

"But, if you see me standing next to you, let's hope that you are smiling and standing with open arms."

If you don't obey the gospel of Christ, you won't be standing next to me Rod...

"Surely, it will be a good place to be. Yes?"

Yes, Heaven will be a good place to be and this place will only be for those who obey God's commandments and obedience to the gospel of Christ is not an option...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

Hmm......I thought you'd say that. In that case, I sure hope Judas is saved.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

"Hmm......I thought you'd say that. In that case, I sure hope Judas is saved."

If not, it will be too late for a second chance...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

Kevin, I don't exactly have a second chance. This is it. There isn't a human alive who can follow the commandments. St. Paul kind of made the same assertions.

Anyway, I thought my case was pretty much nailed down. I couldn't find those loop holes, remember?

Ah! but why continue beating a dead horse? Let's just skip the details.

.....................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

"Kevin, I don't exactly have a second chance. This is it. There isn't a human alive who can follow the commandments. St. Paul kind of made the same assertions."

This is not true, otherwise Jesus would not have said in John 14:15, "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

The Apostle John also disagrees with you for he thought we could keep the commandments when he said in 1 John 5:3, "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome."

To claim that one cannot keep Jesus commandments is not the truth... Is this what the Catholic Church has taught you Rod???

"Anyway, I thought my case was pretty much nailed down. I couldn't find those loop holes, remember?"

I have told you what you need to do in order to be saved based on what God has said in His word Rod. There is only one way to be saved and I can assure you it is not through the Catholic Church.

"Ah! but why continue beating a dead horse? Let's just skip the details."

That's the problem with you Rod, you always want to skip the details... i.e., God says obey His commandments - Rod says man cannot do it... God says Judas is lost - Rod says what God has written is ambiguous...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

Actually, Martin Luther made the doctrine that asserts the impossibility of being "obedient". Let's not forget the "Sola Fide" doctrines, either. Of course, a grain of salt...

Then there's Romans. Ha! Wisdom is knowing what is right; Hee! Virtue is actually doing it.

.....................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

"Actually, Martin Luther made the doctrine that asserts the impossibility of being "obedient". Let's not forget the "Sola Fide" doctrines, either. Of course, a grain of salt..."

I don't subscribe to Martin Luther or the "Sola Fide" doctrines...

Do you believe that we can obey God's commandments Rod??? If you do then why did you make your statement above that man cannot obey the commandments???

"Then there's Romans. Ha! Wisdom is knowing what is right; Hee! Virtue is actually doing it."

Romans 10:17...

Romans 1:16...

Romans 6:16...

Romans 6:3-10...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

"Do you believe that we can obey God's commandments Rod??? If you do then why did you make your statement above that man cannot obey the commandments??? "--Kevin.

Very simple. I read in Scriptures that no man is without sin, no not one. Can a man obey the commandments and still be sinful?

.................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

"Very simple. I read in Scriptures that no man is without sin, no not one. Can a man obey the commandments and still be sinful?"

Yes... God says in 1 John 1:8-10, "8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

God also says in 1 John 2:1-6, "1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him."

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

Yes, of course.

But, consider also:

Romans 7:21-25

..............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

So, basically, no man can follow/obey the commandments because he will eventually sin. Confession and forgiveness will bring him back on track.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

"Yes, of course. But, consider also: Romans 7:21-25"

Okay... What is the "law of sin" that is mentioned in this passage Rod???

Here is a hint... in verse 25, "...So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

If one reads 1 John 2:16, God tells us what the law of sin is: "For all that is in the world--the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life--is not of the Father but is of the world."

The Apostle Paul said in Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live."

He also said in Galatians 5:16-18, "16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law."

It is possible to put to death the deeds of the body...

Paul knew this to be true and he even did this himself for he wrote in 1 Corinthians 9:27, "But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified."

Just because one is a sinner does not mean they cannot obey God's commandments...

The Apostle Peter wrote in 2 Peter 1:5-8, "5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

Well, I'll say it again.

Wisdom knows what to do; Virtue does it.

Once again, everything points to my seclusion into a life of obedience into a world of celibacy. And, I'm not joking!

.....................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

"So, basically, no man can follow/obey the commandments because he will eventually sin."

No, man can obey God's commandments because once they obey the gospel, they are now as Paul says in Romans 6:18, "...slaves of righteousness"

"Confession and forgiveness will bring him back on track."

A Christian will grow in the grace and knowledge of the Lord and as he studies and applies God's word to his life, the Christian will sin less and less because he has God's word dwelling in him. The Apostle John said in 1 John 3:9, "Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God."

The children of God are those who keep His commandments...

The devil does not like those who keep God's commandments...

God says in Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

Well, sure he may sin less and less, but his death will bring an end to his sinning.

..................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

Kevin, we'll continue on this I'm sure. It is late for me; I wish I could keep on. This was a good Bible study, thanks.

Later....

...............

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 09, 2004.

Goodnite Rod... it is an hour later for me here on the East Coast... and way past my bedtime...

-- Kevin Walker (kevinlwalker572@cs.com), November 09, 2004.

Dear Rod and Kevin

Happy Thanksgiving..........

I am most impressed by the way you guys conduct yourselves on the discussion.. even to wish each other a decent Night.

I have learned from you both........ I do vote Judas was lost based on my previous post........ but I enjoy the discussion. Peace and Blessings to you both......

-- Mary Theresa Mallaro (Sophie1rae@aol.com), November 25, 2004.

Thanks, Mary.

In all reality, I have respect for Kevin's convictions and faith in Christ our Saviour. I have learned much from Kevin through our discussions and "arguments". Kevin knows his Bible, but it is his faith that is most evident and inspiring.

...................

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 26, 2004.

Thanks for the email. I hope your Thanksgiving Day was enjoyable!

.........

-- rod (elreyrod@yahoo.com), November 29, 2004.